Have you ever..........

[Scott Dolan]

Accidently wound up in a foreign country?

I'm assuming this must happen often if the cross section of Gitmo detainees that claim this is what happened to them is any reliable indicator.

[rollhead]

If you would ever get out of your redneck enclave in the Ozarks, you might find that all countries aren't as large as the U.S.

Second, have you personally done a "poll" of the prisoners who are at Guantanamo Bay -- or have access to such a poll?

Third, what does the fact that people are being held at Guantanamo WITHOUT being charged, have to do with any excuse they might provide?

Fourth, this is just another one of your willfully ignorant efforts to put a smiley face on the torture and degradation of other human beings and the subsequent destruction of any respect -- as a "just" state -- the United States might have had around the world.

[jesus marion joseph]

One time I was in Daytona and I accidentally took a turn and ended up driving he "flying mile", or whatever they call that section of the beach.

[Scott Dolan]

If you would ever get out of your redneck enclave in the Ozarks, you might find that all countries aren't as large as the U.S.

We're not talking Liechtenstein here.

Third, what does the fact that people are being held at Guantanamo WITHOUT being charged, have to do with any excuse they might provide?

What does that have to do with the poll question?

Fourth, this is just another one of your willfully ignorant efforts to put a smiley face on the torture and degradation of other human beings and the subsequent destruction of any respect

So I take it your answer to the question is no?

Such a bright and intelligent man you are, rollie. If someone who's being detained in Gitmo claims they "accidently" wound up in Afghanistan hunkered down with the Taliban you don't have the intellectual honesty to question such a story. In your idiotic partisan fog the most you can muster is "Awww, that's horrible". Why? Because it fits your political needs.

[crawjo]

So now I guess the mere fact of being in a particular country at a particular time is just cause for indefinitely detaining someone without charges or evidence presented to support those charges?

I'm sure those guys who have been locked up now for close to five years are providing lots of critical evidence in the war on terror. Just think of all the terrorist attacks we are now thwarting by extracting the precious knowledge from people who have been in prison for the last several years!

[Scott Dolan]

Certainly a story of going to a wedding in Pakistan and accidently ending up in Afghanistan(with Taliban fighters no less)is an airtight story no one should question.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Such a bright and intelligent man you are, rollie. If someone who's being detained in Gitmo claims they "accidently" wound up in Afghanistan hunkered down with the Taliban you don't have the intellectual honesty to question such a story. In your idiotic partisan fog the most you can muster is "Awww, that's horrible". Why? Because it fits your political needs.

You're full of shit. Suppose that all you say is true: these guys were fighting with the Taliban. (If that's the case, then the Geneva conventions would apply to them, no?) But regardless, suppose it is true. What are the boundaries, the limits to what can be done to them? How long can they be detained? As long as the amorphously-defined "war on terror" continues? Are they prisoners of war? If so, then a whole set of conventions applies to them. But instead we have a situation where they are being defined by whatever standard Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzalez have dreamed up for them, and under this principle, which I can only call the tyranny of the executive, they are detained indefinitely and cut off from the rest of the world.

Scott, if someone was fighting for the Taliban, does that give the U.S. the right to do whatever it wants to them?

[jesus marion joseph]

Sounds preposterous to us, perhaps, but given the loosy-goosy nature of the borders over there, it doesn't sound entirely implausible that you could cross over without knowing.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Certainly a story of going to a wedding in Pakistan and accidently ending up in Afghanistan(with Taliban fighters no less)is an airtight story no one should question.

That's irrelevant to the issue. Besides which, we have already learned that the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is indeed very porous, so it is not outside the realm of possibility. Not all geo-political boundaries around the world are as clear-cut as they are in the United States, which is one major reason why your poll question, which implies that there can be some sort of parallel between how a U.S. citizen experiences borders and how a person in another continent does, is rooted in ignorance.

[Coda]

The one piece of info missing from this equation is that the 'gentleman' who got lost in Afghanistan has relatives. It just so happens that his entire immediate family are all serving time in jail.....for terrorism! Father, Mother, & several brothers.

The reports I heard said that one of them was convicted yesterday.

To bad the MSM decided that this tidbit of information wasn't newsworthy.

[claude]

Originally Posted by Coda

The one piece of info missing from this equation is that the 'gentleman' who got lost in Afghanistan has relatives. It just so happens that his entire immediate family are all serving time in jail.....for terrorism! Father, Mother, & several brothers.

Guilty by association?

[Slurpy]

Once.......and almost twice.

Driving from Southern Germany to Austria, I found myself in Switzerland. Yes, I was sober.

Driving from southern NY to Oswego NY , I missed an exit.....continued driving for what seemed like an eternity, then at 3 am saw a humongous bridge up ahead and then a sign: Canada: 1 mile. Asked the bridge guard if I was close to Oswego. The guy laughed at me. I wasn't sober then.

I hate maps. They fold like a motherf**ker.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Slurpy

Once.......and almost twice.

It wasn't really an accident, but it was capricious.

I was in Copenhagen and I decided to take the ferry to Malmo, just to SAY I was in Sweden, where I stayed for a couple of hours before taking the ferry back to Denmark.



I had to ask the Swedes to stamp my passport. They laughed, and got the stamp out of storage.

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Certainly a story of going to a wedding in Pakistan and accidently ending up in Afghanistan(with Taliban fighters no less)is an airtight story no one should question.

If you watch The Road to Guantanamo, you will find that their story was not one of 'accidentally ending up in Afghanistan'; rather, they decided to go there on a trip across the Pakistani border, to see the region. No doubt this will sound equally far-fetched to you, who favours the 'guilty until proven innocent' attitude of the US military, but it is of no relevance in any case. The fact remains that there were no good reasons for detaining them, unless you count an American desire for pointless, directionless vengeance on random individuals as a good reason, which you probably do.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Pedantic Wretch

The fact remains that there were no good reasons for detaining them, unless you count an American desire for pointless, directionless vengeance on random individuals as a good reason, which you probably do.

Well said.

For those of you who -- unlike Dolan -- might be interested in the facts, you can find a story about these men here:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...168937,00.html

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by PW

guilty until proven innocent

You mean like Karl Rove?

[Scott Dolan]

Suppose that all you say is true: these guys were fighting with the Taliban.

Where did I say that? They were hiding out with the Taliban.

Happens to me all the time.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

You mean like Karl Rove?

No, like Barry Bonds.

Karl Rove was imprisoned and tortured without being charged?

Your stupidity never fails to astound me.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by rollhead

No, like Barry Bonds.

Karl Rove was imprisoned and tortured without being charged?

Your stupidity never fails to astound me.

No, but he was guilty until proven innocent, wasn't he? Work on your fucking reading comprehension, dipshit. And here I was going to title my book Why Lynn Can't Read. Perhaps I'll have to fit you in there somewhere.

Matter of fact, to take it one step further, Rove is still guilty to liberal jackoffs like you who created and happily cohabitate in your own alternate reality.

But I don't suppose folks who were fighting along side the Taliban will receive such scorn from you bubbleheads.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

But I don't suppose folks who were fighting along side the Taliban will receive such scorn from you bubbleheads.

Again, facts have no place in your rightwing, neofascist world.

"Yet despite the denial of legal rights or due process, the authorities on both sides of the Atlantic have been forced to accept what the three men said all along - that they were never members of the Taliban, al-Qaeda or any other militant group. The Americans had justified their detention by claiming they were 'enemy combatants', but they were never armed and did not fight."

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

No, but he was guilty until proven innocent,

According to whom? Rightwing hysterics, such as yourself?

By whom was he charged?

What judge declared him guilty?

In what jail did he serve time?

Who tortured him?

What fraternity played hijinks on him?

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

But I don't suppose folks who were fighting along side the Taliban will receive such scorn from you bubbleheads.

The reason the Taliban is so deserving of scorn is, in part, because they practiced the sort of justice being meted out by the U.S. government in places like Guantanamo.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by halfhead

According to whom? Rightwing hysterics, such as yourself?

Yes, I'm sure a ditzy left wing nutcase like yourself was sure of Rove's innocence the whole time, right?

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by Face of the Bass

The reason the Taliban is so deserving of scorn is, in part, because they practiced the sort of justice being meted out by the U.S. government in places like Guantanamo.

Nice.

[shrugs]

I met a guy from Alabama who got so drunk he woke up in Disneyworld the next day.

[Scott Dolan]

Aw shit, I've done that.

[lynn]

Somebody needs a bigger asshat. One with some stretch please. At table 25.

[Scott Dolan]

Three sentences in a row! Not necessarily complete, but the spelling is beyond reproach.

Nicely done, lynn!!!

[lynn]

I just like to take literary license. I would say it exactly like that to your face, or over the phone, or maybe 2 cans and a string.

You should try it some time.

[Scott Dolan]

Try what?

[Al in NYC]

I was in Kenya and drove into Tanzania (we were going cross-country) without knowing it until the next day when we ran into some Tanzanian park rangers.

Once, in my wild youth, I woke up on an unfamiliar sidewalk with no memory of how I'd gotten there and discovered that it was, in fact, in Canada. But I think that's an experience that a lot of Detroit kids have.