Have you ever visited Ithaca?

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Just curious. I know some of you have, but am curious about others who may not have mentioned it before.

...or perhaps you've been to another Ithaca!

[Tom Marcello]

I have a daughter who goes to college there.

Nice town at the bottom of Cayuga Lake in the Finger Lakes Region.



I wish I could share the photo that I have of Joe Locke & 4 Walls of Freedom ( Tommy Smith, Jay Anderson and Gary Novak ) playing at the Sheldrake Point Vineyard, which is just up the road, a couple of years ago.

[John P. Cooper]

At one time a few years ago....and maybe even now...it was a hot bed of young swing dancers.

Seen 'em or hear tell?

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Ithaca Swing Dance Network: http://www.dance-ithaca.org/

There's all kinds of dancing here. Big belly dancing town, too.

[John P. Cooper]

They were getting a lot of press a while back, but someone I know and supremely trust checked them out and her opinion was 'what's all the fuss?'. Talented, but all the raves were coming from the east coast people who 'notoriously' have over valued themselves.

OK...that was the site. Have you seen anyone in action?

There is a major divide between the swing dance / swing music scene and the jazz scenes in most cities. Only the truly inspired and devoted dancers are going out to actual jazz venues to find 'suitable' music they can also dance to. Young people making the effort to open their ears. Gotta hand it to them. Little guidance, just going on what they may have heard and they check it out.

Most other forms of dance have no interest for me. ....just not a 'dance expression' guy. Those dance shows on TV are awful.

Anyway......

[Tom Storer]

I was born in Ithaca! But the family moved when I was two and I've never been back.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Ithica

When you start on your journey to Ithaca,
then pray that the road is long,
full of adventure, full of knowledge.
Do not fear the Lestrygonians
and the Cyclopes and the angry Poseidon.
You will never meet such as these on your path,
if your thoughts remain lofty, if a fine
emotion touches your body and your spirit.
You will never meet the Lestrygonians,
the Cyclopes and the fierce Poseidon,
if you do not carry them within your soul,
if your soul does not raise them up before you.

Then pray that the road is long.
That the summer mornings are many,
that you will enter ports seen for the first time
with such pleasure, with such joy!
Stop at Phoenician markets,
and purchase fine merchandise,
mother-of-pearl and corals, amber and ebony,
and pleasurable perfumes of all kinds,
buy as many pleasurable perfumes as you can;
visit hosts of Egyptian cities,
to learn and learn from those who have knowledge.

Always keep Ithaca fixed in your mind.
To arrive there is your ultimate goal.
But do not hurry the voyage at all.
It is better to let it last for long years;
and even to anchor at the isle when you are old,
rich with all that you have gained on the way,
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches.

Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage.
Without her you would never have taken the road.
But she has nothing more to give you.

And if you find her poor, Ithaca has not defrauded you.
With the great wisdom you have gained, with so much experience,
you must surely have understood by then what Ithacas mean.


-- Constantine P. Cavafy (1911)

[Gary Sisco]

's that a big belly-dancing town or a big-belly dancing town?

Does driving through count?

Why on earth would I want to go to Ithaca, when Spring Lake fulfills all my dreams.

[walto]

I lived there for six years. I was an undergrad at Ithaca College. Then after grad school elsewhere I came back and taught at IC for two years. I love the place.

But, unfortunately, I don't think I've been back since my tenth reunion in the eighties.

[cookie]

Originally Posted by John P. Cooper

OK...that was the site. Have you seen anyone in action?

There is a major divide between the swing dance / swing music scene and the jazz scenes in most cities. Only the truly inspired and devoted dancers are going out to actual jazz venues to find 'suitable' music they can also dance to.

There are many dancers who seek out swing oriented jazz here. For many years, I had a monthly duo gig with a piano player in a club with a good dance floor and they danced to US! They also hire local swing jazz bands to play a dance once or twice a month. Keeps their feet happy and us employed.

Gary: big belly-dancing or big-belly dancing? Both, man, and sometimes simultaneously. Belly dancing is not just for the little girls around here---but you ain't gon' see ME in that get up!!

Sure, driving through counts because there's no real highway to zip around it. Gotta go through it, and if you hit it at the wrong time of the day, you may be staying longer than you think. As the city grows, the traffic just gets crazier. I travel all over the Upstate region and can attest to the fact that despite its small size, it's one of the more difficult cities to drive through---many one-way and small streets; no major highway connections.

Ithaca, NY: Centrally Isolated.

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by cookie

There are several folks who come out to hear swing oriented jazz. For many years, I had a monthly duo gig with a piano player in a club with a good dance floor and they danced to US! They also hire local swing jazz bands to play a dance once or twice a month. Keeps their feet happy and us employed.

Cookie-

Do you like working those 'swing gigs'?

Do they offer challenges and or problems that your Jazz gigs do not?

How do they differ?

Obviously, dancers have certain needs. Some musicians cannot deal with that or do not want to.

OTOH, some musicians seem to have zero concept on how to play for a dance crowd.

Do you find the appreciation level different from dancers as opposed to listeners? How about the energy level?

[cookie]

Originally Posted by John P. Cooper

Cookie-

Do you like working those 'swing gigs'?

I don't work many of them, but when I do, YES!

Originally Posted by John P. Cooper

Do they offer challenges and or problems that your Jazz gigs do not?

All tempos have to be danceable. This is not the time for outre improvisation or tempos that are too fast or too slow for dancing. On a jazz gig, I have much more freedom over the types of material and the audience may be hearing that stuff for the first time (or the first time in that way). On a dance gig, I find that the dancers are often very knowledgeable about the music. They express appreciation for good renditions of their favorites and they make excellent requests.

Originally Posted by John P. Cooper

How do they differ?

The dancers have more fun!!

Originally Posted by John P. Cooper

Obviously, dancers have certain needs. Some musicians cannot deal with that or do not want to.

OTOH, some musicians seem to have zero concept on how to play for a dance crowd.

Do you find the appreciation level different from dancers as opposed to listeners? How about the energy level?

I love it when people dance. People have gotten up and danced to my music when I didn't expect them to. I always find it gratifying because it means the music literally "moved" them. I enjoy playing for dancers because they are physically connected to the music and that creates great energy in the band. It's easier to get a real back and forth relationship with the dancing audience.

It took me a while to learn how to deal with dancing situations because I am not a dancer. But listening to dancers and musicians who work for dancers helped me know what they needed. I'm primarily a swing-oriented singer and have enough material to keep the dancers happy. Just can't break out those slow, slow late night torch songs, avoid anything with significant time signature/tempo changes, or anything too crazy fast to dance to. When I've done these gigs, I often consult with the more experienced dance musicians for tempos. I tend to kick things off too fast. Then again, there are some dancers who are up to the challenge!

I played a gig in Troy one winter, is that close enough? 'Sho taught me what winter's all about.

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Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

I played a gig in Troy one winter, is that close enough? 'Sho taught me what winter's all about.

No, sorry. Troy is about 3 hours away; closer to Albany. A fine place in its own right I'm sure.

Winter, man. Ay yi yi. Everyone's complaining about the heat, but not me. I don't have to shovel the heat nor is my car likely to skate on the surface of the heat. I don't mind heat, especially 'cause I can take a dip in the lake (or gorges). I'd much rather be hot than cold. I really don't like being cold.

I deal with winter. I like it for about the first day of the first real snow. Then I've had enough. The past winter wasn't such a bad one, but I did drive in a couple of rough snowstorms.

[Captain Hate]

Mrs Hate and I stayed there on our way back from our honeymoon in Nova Scotia & Prince Edward Island in 1975. We subsequently went through there with the kids in the 80's while going up to the Adirondacks.

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Tom Marcello: that is a beautiful photo! And I bet that Locke concert was "off-the-hook", as the kids say.

SDCS: that poem is so cool! They printed it in the Ithaca Festival program a couple of years back (the theme that year was Ithaca as the start and end of the journey).

Tom Storer: you were born here? Wow. That's cool jazzcorner trivia!

I feel lucky to live here. I told my husband that we got our home here the cheap way: we went to school here and never left. We worked our way up from cooperative living to apartments to an old beat up house in Fall Creek.

If we had gone away, it would be harder to return. The price of real-estate has gone up precipitously. The price of liberal government is high tax (though I believe we get very good return for it). There is a lot of job competition.

But we did it the old-fashioned way: we fell in love with each other and with the town and just stayed here. We lived the bohemian lifestyle, got a toehold, and now we own a li'l piece. Hey! I'm a townie now!

Originally Posted by cookie

No, sorry. Troy is about 3 hours away; closer to Albany. A fine place in its own right I'm sure.

Winter, man. Ay yi yi. Everyone's complaining about the heat, but not me. I don't have to shovel the heat nor is my car likely to skate on the surface of the heat. I don't mind heat, especially 'cause I can take a dip in the lake (or gorges). I'd much rather be hot than cold. I really don't like being cold.

I deal with winter. I like it for about the first day of the first real snow. Then I've had enough. The past winter wasn't such a bad one, but I did drive in a couple of rough snowstorms.

Ma'am, with all due respects, y'all ain't got heat up there. Heck, I thought Boston was hot when I got used to it, until I came back down here to NC.

[clinthopson]

No Ithaca, but I have been in Coksakie, tho'.

[Lenny D.Guitarist]

The longest week I ever spent in my life was a weekend in Ithaca.

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by cookie

I don't work many of them, but when I do, YES!



All tempos have to be danceable. This is not the time for outre improvisation or tempos that are too fast or too slow for dancing. On a jazz gig, I have much more freedom over the types of material and the audience may be hearing that stuff for the first time (or the first time in that way). On a dance gig, I find that the dancers are often very knowledgeable about the music. They express appreciation for good renditions of their favorites and they make excellent requests.




The dancers have more fun!!


I love it when people dance. People have gotten up and danced to my music when I didn't expect them to. I always find it gratifying because it means the music literally "moved" them. I enjoy playing for dancers because they are physically connected to the music and that creates great energy in the band. It's easier to get a real back and forth relationship with the dancing audience.

It took me a while to learn how to deal with dancing situations because I am not a dancer. But listening to dancers and musicians who work for dancers helped me know what they needed. I'm primarily a swing-oriented singer and have enough material to keep the dancers happy. Just can't break out those slow, slow late night torch songs, avoid anything with significant time signature/tempo changes, or anything too crazy fast to dance to. When I've done these gigs, I often consult with the more experienced dance musicians for tempos. I tend to kick things off too fast. Then again, there are some dancers who are up to the challenge!

Thanks! That was a good post.

Your comment about dancers having more fun than listeners is seemingly true and I wonder if Jazz listeners can comprehend this or would they counter that with 'we are not there to have fun'. But doesn't fun = enjoyment?

Yes...too fast an opener doen't work well many times as people need time to warm up physically.

Tempo changes throw people off...and that strikes me as odd b/c much big band swing and pop had tempo changes in them.

The thing about many current dancers is that they have to hear the beat b/c they cannot feel the rhythm. Their musical b/g and 'training' and lack of listening hinders them.

People back east have tended to favor less brisk tempos. Out here in LA, there was a tendency to favor brighter tempos on tunes. The great majority of people, however, find the middle ground between semi-brisk and brisk comfortable...along with whatever else is suitable.

Slow tempos are usually 'death' to Lindy Hoppers. The walk off the floor. If it isn't 'Lindy-able', they're gone. Part of it is that they don't do dances other than Swing dances. Many of them do some ballroom..especially the women.....but many dancers have partners who are not their g/fs or wives or even dates, so a slow dance offers them nothing.

One thing that most listeners do not do is sweat through their clothes! I aqm sure you have noticed 'glowing' girls and guy who bring several shirts with them, not to mention small towels and their own water! Haha!! Most of the 'follows' will warn a guy if they (the female) have become a bit 'moist'. It's all part of the big picture.

Have you noticed 'cats corners' at any of your Swing gigs?

[shrugs]

5/8/77

[Cem]

5.8.77 Barton Hall is the only Ithaca I've ever visited.... copious times!

[Cem]

That's ridiculous, Dave! Good timing!

[shrugs]

crazy.
One of the best live music dates in History.

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5/8/77: I wish I had been there. I took the bootleg off the shelf just last week!

[GoodSpeak]

I've been to upstate NY [Bethel, Woodstock, Red Hook, Poughkeepsie, etc] and through White Plains...but not Ithaca.


My sister-in-law lives in New Paltz...is it near there?

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I had to look up this poem and I found it on the Ask Uncle Ezra part of the Cornell website. I actually first saw the poster with this poem when I was home for the summer and working in the Colby College library. This is the entry from Uncle Ezra:
______________________
Dear Uncle Ezra,
Long ago there was a poem about Ithaca and Buffalo Street and a car careening down the Buffalo Street hill. What was that poem and who wrote it?

Dear Historian of the 1970's,

The poem, by Dick Lourie, is called, "What It's Like Living in Ithaca New York". There is a poster of it, with a photograph by Kathy Morris, that you can still get at The Bookery, downtown on Buffalo Street, of course.

What It's Like Living In Ithaca New York

here's what it's like: let's say you have just had lunch someplace in Collegetown and you are on your way to Karl Jaentsch's garage with your VW because yesterday you noticed the brakes were beginning to fade

you start down Buffalo Street hill it looks like rain now after a sunny morning: when you slow down for the blinking yellow light at Stewart Avenue those brakes are not good

and it gets worse that huge old green house on the corner of Fountain Place and then the shiny face of the Terrace Hill Apartments flash by you like the past

you feel terror in your wrists your stomach and you know those brakes are gone and you won't be able to stop at the red light on Aurora

where there are several people leisurely crossing your path: maybe on their way from the Unitarian Church to Hal's Delicatessen or they just left their own apartment to go buy flowers or whatever errands we do all day -- in any case there they are and you can't stop

so this is what it's like: as if your brakes had failed and you couldn't avoid running right through that crowd knocking them all apart-- panic broken limbs and screams in the street

well the chances are that on any given day at least one of these people would be somebody you had quarreled with last year and hadn't spoken to since or a friend you had visited only last week or even the person you were once married to yourself who would see just before impact that it was you

that's what it's like living in Ithaca
________________________________
And that's what it's still like living in Ithaca. Those places are all still here, with the exception that I'm not sure Karl Jaentsch is still around. He may well be. He is legendary here (he's a mechanic who worked on VWs and other foreign cars in a time when metric tools were still pretty new to these shores).

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Originally Posted by Lenny D.Guitarist

The longest week I ever spent in my life was a weekend in Ithaca.

Hmm...sounds like there may be a story there.

For me, it's kind of the opposite: I have weeks on end of weekend in Ithaca.

BTW: I see we got one vote for Greek Ithaca! That's cool. Wonder who that was.....?

[Lenny D.Guitarist]

Originally Posted by cookie

Hmm...sounds like there may be a story there.

For me, it's kind of the opposite: I have weeks on end of weekend in Ithaca.

BTW: I see we got one vote for Greek Ithaca! That's cool. Wonder who that was.....?

No story... just a ripoff of the W.C. Fields' line "The longest week I ever spent in my life was a weekend in Philadelphia." Ithaca has some of the most
memorable wonders of nature anywhere.