What percentage of political threads end up as gripefests?

[Gordon B]

All replies are anonymous.

[Vince Kargatis]

Has to be fewer than 1 in 5 that stay mostly reasonable. There are just too many gripe-oriented politicos that frequent the bulk of political threads that come up.

I object.

[GoodSpeak]

Almost every thread, political or not, often turns into a pissing contest at one point or another.



Too bad.

[GoodSpeak]

Usually the less than flexible folks start it.


























Hey! I don't make the rules around here.



Honestly sometimes.

[Enforcer]

The political discussions here are shit. Don't protest, I'm being generous.

[Uli]

hehe.

Don't take this as a protest, Larry but may I ask you a question?

Why do you think that the Sports discussions are much better or evenmore to the point, the music discussions?

[Jon Abbey]

jeez, that's an easy one. because Larry and I participate in those, of course!

[Gordon B]

A small number of posters dominate the act of starting threads here to complain about XYZ but we can all do our part not to use this forum merely to complain about the world or politicians and to tone down the outrage that somebody would dare express a political view different from our own.

[Brian Olewnick]

Shut your hole, Blewis!

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by Uli

Why do you think that the Sports discussions are much better or evenmore to the point, the music discussions?

In terms of music, I've discussed the subject of jazz a lot over the years on this board and at JCS, and with many of the regulars who still post here today. After 10 years or so, the particular areas of jazz discussion that interest me, I've pretty much beaten to death. I still lurk on the threads and sometimes post, but I don't feel compelled to participate the way I used to. If I still had the time to go to jazz shows like I used to, I'd probably be posting a lot more, because this is a great place to share musical thoughts and ideas about jazz.

The threads in the Alley, sports or otherwise, I enjoy because there's something brand new for me to talk about everyday. And although I can forecast a little bit here and there, I really don't know what people are going to say about a given subject on a given day. Which is the big problem with the politics threads: They're almost completely predictable. The party lines overwhelm any sensible discussion more often than not. Not with all the posters, but with the loudest and most repetitive voices, who drown out any semblance of intelligent discourse. If you tell me the subject of a political thread here before you start it, I could probably write posts and responses for all the major contributors to the discussion in advance. And my imitations would be so convincing, most would probably never notice they were forgeries.

The people who do think outside the partisan politics box seem almost reluctant to even get into deep discussions about their positions on issues. Not sure why that is, really. Maybe from having bad experiences trying to reason with people whose minds are made up long before a discussion even starts. So for me, it all boils down to really low level, boring trash talk. "You (political party) always (fill in the blank)." It's grade school shit.

[Gary Sisco]

All of them. They can't but be otherwise when people choose to deal with parties instead of ideas. There can't be a reasoned exchange in times as partisanly motivated as these, where people's positions change overnight to meet with the demands of the party line, big-gubmint conservatism being but one example, where a party simply tosses over its most longstanding stands and behaves contrary to them -- and then acts as if there's nothing unusual abou it. Or invading another country for substantive reasons no one can articulate (hence the serial rationales for doing so). And so forth.

One guy's gripes are another's sincerity. Works in all directions, from everyone.

One thing that seems often to be forgotten is that everyone considers his or her political views to be the "right" ones. Politics is certainly not any less subjective than musical tastes. There are no exceptions.

Many, many people have been killed because one guy or group thinks its ideas are more right than others, let's face it.

[Uli]

Larry, I almost completely agree with everything you sed.

I am not trying to raise hell here or point fingers. For me it's just more of the same in all forums. replace party lines with certain preferences of style or for the "old" or the "new" and everything becomes equally predictable. I certainly feel that I could write up some reviews of records or shows of some posters here and feel I would would be equally close as you. hey, with some posters I can even predict 3 or 4 of their 10 best of the year before the year even started.

[walto]

FWIW, I'm the lone 41%-60%er. I think most political threads, like most threads generally, don't produce much (if any) response at all. Often there's an article link or a cut and paste job, and maybe one response of either the "interesting" or "you suck" variety.

[groover]

I'll concur with Walto.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by groover

I'll concur with Walto.

Not me. He sucks.

[Al in NYC]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

A small number of posters dominate the act of starting threads here to complain about XYZ but we can all do our part not to use this forum merely to complain about the world or politicians and to tone down the outrage that somebody would dare express a political view different from our own.

I would feel a lot more that way if we did not live in such outrage-provoking times. I'm normally a rather dispassionate person, and my academic training would normally lead me to remain as objective as possible about current events, but in my view if folks aren't crying out in outrage at every chance they get right now then they really aren't doing their jobs as Americans and as people. There has never been a time in my life when I've felt anywhere near this strongly about current political events, but to me a line has very clearly been drawn by our current administration (they've stated it themselves) and their supporters, and the deformation of just about every human value I believe in that has taken place on the other side of that line has been more than enough to provoke my anger. I have no party line horse here, and ride none, but there is nothing, literally nothing, that I find comforting or joyful in the politics of these times.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be uncivil, nor do I believe that I am. But sometimes one must state one's case as strongly as possible in order to make the necessary point and to fully express their emotions at the outrages that seem to be piling one on top of the other at a dizzying pace these days. Given the course of events, if you are expecting me to get less angry rather than more, then you are living in the wrong times and I guess you're just going to have to wait for (or be a part of) better times to come.

[shrugs]

Originally Posted by Al in NYC

There has never been a time in my life when I've felt anywhere near this strongly about current political events, but to me a line has very clearly been drawn by our current administration (they've stated it themselves) and their supporters, and the deformation of just about every human value I believe in that has taken place on the other side of that line has been more than enough to provoke my anger. I have no party line horse here, and ride none, but there is nothing, literally nothing, that I find comforting or joyful in the politics of these times.

Thanks for summing up my feelings.
I had a great gig as a radioman on submarines but couldn't stand to wear the uniform a second longer because of these chumps.
I felt the same when I watched my city go to shit this past Hurricane season.
How can civilized human beings allow any of this to happen?

[crawjo]

Ah, yes. Encountering another meta-thread on JC is as comfy and relaxing as snuggling up with a nice, warm, blanket and a volume of Proust. I feel so at home right now.

My opinion is that the political atmosphere in the U.S. today is very nasty (in terms of the discourse, since that's all people do, is talk.) This is a culture-wide trend that is reflected here at JazzCorner. When I was with a group walking the sand dunes in Namibia, I got into this political conversation with a woman from Australia. There was another woman in our party, an American, who completely disagreed with everything I had to say about American politics. At that point, an icy silence descended over our group: we were too polite to actually hash out our differences. Had we encountered each other through the more impersonal medium of an online forum, I have no doubt that we would have been hurling insults and accusations at each other within minutes.

This is American politics now, I think. We are so polarized when it comes to our views, as well as our sources for "news," that the possibility of having a rational, tempered conversation about politics today is very, very small. Regardless of your political standpoint, I think it's clear that this polarization really intensified with the 2000 presidential election and Bush's divisive policies on a range of issues. Add in the terror of 9/11 and I think we are a country of frayed nerves at this point.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

A small number of posters dominate the act of starting threads here to complain about XYZ but we can all do our part not to use this forum merely to complain about the world or politicians and to tone down the outrage that somebody would dare express a political view different from our own.

It is clear that you are clueless Blewis. The working people in this country have been taking it up the ass since Reagan, and you pompously call for "civil discourse."

I would suggest that it is immoral to NOT express outrage in the face of your contemptible ideas.

To quote one of your heros, Adam Smith ... you represent the "vile maxim of the masters of mankind: . . . All for ourselves, and nothing for other people."

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Al in NYC

I would feel a lot more that way if we did not live in such outrage-provoking times. I'm normally a rather dispassionate person, and my academic training would normally lead me to remain as objective as possible about current events, but in my view if folks aren't crying out in outrage at every chance they get right now then they really aren't doing their jobs as Americans and as people. There has never been a time in my life when I've felt anywhere near this strongly about current political events, but to me a line has very clearly been drawn by our current administration (they've stated it themselves) and their supporters, and the deformation of just about every human value I believe in that has taken place on the other side of that line has been more than enough to provoke my anger. I have no party line horse here, and ride none, but there is nothing, literally nothing, that I find comforting or joyful in the politics of these times.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be uncivil, nor do I believe that I am. But sometimes one must state one's case as strongly as possible in order to make the necessary point and to fully express their emotions at the outrages that seem to be piling one on top of the other at a dizzying pace these days. Given the course of events, if you are expecting me to get less angry rather than more, then you are living in the wrong times and I guess you're just going to have to wait for (or be a part of) better times to come.

What Al said.

The anger you see on these threads don't have much to do with partinsanship, IMO. It's about basic principles. There was a time I could have a reasoned debate with right-wingers, but now, fairly or not, I just see them as bad people and have as little to do with them as I can. If you think what's being done in our name now is acceptable, then fuck you.

[Ennis Snavely]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

What Al said.

The anger you see on these threads don't have much to do with partinsanship, IMO. It's about basic principles. There was a time I could have a reasoned debate with right-wingers, but now, fairly or not, I just see them as bad people and have as little to do with them as I can. If you think what's being done in our name now is acceptable, then fuck you.

That should be "...doesn't have much to do...". And fuck you too, asswhipe. I got yer "basic principles" right here.

[Gary Sisco]

Fuck off, Snidely.

[Slurpy]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Fuck off, Snidely.

LMAO.

BTW, nice post, Al.