Societal aspects of hip hop

[mke]

A sub-plot in the Considering Genius thread that might deserve its own space.

Obviously, there's plenty of hip hop (good and bad) that isn't particularly negative (whatever that might be taken to mean). However, this discussion is mainly about the hip hop that has a large cultural impact, ie. that sells and is broadcast. And assessing its impact seems to me related to but different from judging it as music. Is popular hip hop essentially negative (towards women, violence, drugs, whatever)? More so than other forms of music? Is this having a particular social impact?

Women in videos and lyrics: my girlfriend isn't black, but I know she often feels demeaned by popular hip hop videos. Not necessarily by one in particular, but by the seemingly endless procession and their one-dimensional character.

[Enforcer]

Well, I'm a fan of hip-hop, but it's not usually the stuff that's played on pop radio stations or the MTV channels. Which makes it no different than any other genre, really. How often is the best of any style of music played on MTV or top 40 radio?

The videos are terrible. As a whole, hip-hop videos are garbage. They're the same thing, over and over again. Bling-bling and girls' asses. There's a one-upmanship going on, too. Like who can get the most riced out wheels, ice and asses into a 3 1/2 minute video. I saw one on BET (where they show the unedited stuff late at night) where the whole video was showing a girl's ass. That was it. No segue, no change of view, nothing. Just one girl's ass for the duration of the video. Hey, everyone loves a nice ass, but that's what porn is for. If I'm watching a music video, my expectations are a little higher.

Based on that stuff, it's easy to see why people think the genre is really bad. But there's a lot of hip-hop that I love. There's some really creative stuff going on with the best of it, way ahead of what's happening in rock and other pop music by contrast. I enjoy some of the pop stuff and some of the gangsta stuff, but only in small doses. Too much of any one thing and what not.

[Pete C]

The only hip hop I ever hear is in Spanish or Portuguese (Cuban or Brazilian), so I'm not very attuned to the lyrics.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in647330.shtml

[walto]

Fixed.

The videos are terrible. As a whole, hip-hop videos are garbage. They're the same thing, over and over again. Bling-bling and girls' asses. Who the hell wants bling? We want more skin and better looking women. And maybe some breasts.

I like breastses.

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by walto

Fixed.

Well done!

[Noj]

There's a fine line between a rapper who talks blatantly about murder or drugs or mysogyny and a rapper whose tongue is firmly planted in cheek when talking about the same stuff, or a rapper who is merely telling a story. The line is easily crossed, but many are able to toe it without breaching it. Some don't address those controversial topics at all. Some have addressed this very topic, scolding the rappers who have crossed the line.

Many raps are a backlash against political correctness, so it is no accident that the more sensitive listeners are offended by what they hear. Some rap listeners only want to hear that which is the most offensive.

[Tom Storer]

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

I like breastses.

Are you channeling Darryl? If so, that should be "I like breastses and whatnot."

[Enforcer]

Fixed.

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

Are you channeling Darryl? If so, that should be "I like breastses and whatnot." That's how I do it whenever I sign on here as Darryl.

[sonic1]

I'll repost my rap comment here since the other thread is in a strange place:

Originally Posted by Root Doctor

Jared, I'm not talking about the genre's subject matter, which I've said is common throughout American pop music. I'm talking about the violent behavior of some of its performers and the torturous logic of their apologists. You show me another musical genre where those tendencies are as pronounced. I don't recall any "Free Johnny" campaigns after the late Mr. Paycheck shot a guy in a bar.

Well, if I recall correctly those rock stars in the 70s were pretty bad boys. They were known for their debauchery-treating women terribly, murder, excessive drug use, destroying public and private property...etc. The only thing they are not AS well known for is killing each other, at least to the same degree. I see the gang problem as the product of a much larger problem, and really don't blame a lot of these guys for being attracted to gangs. A lot of them grew up in pretty rough conditions. This doesn't excuse their behavior (and also doesn't account for the occurance of suburban and rural gangsta wannabes) but mearly suggests that pointing to the leaf of the weed does nothing to solve any problems. You can attack gangsta rap, and gangs all day long with all your resources, and they will still emerge because the propelling force, the fuel for this subculture is inner city, black poverty, and gangs are their way of securing SOME kind of power in their lives, no matter how pathetic we may view it.

Do I like seeing this shit? No. Gangster Rap offends everything I believe in: they are misogynist, violent, commercially oriented (thus feeding the very powers that keep them down), self destructive (both as a race as well as individuals), etc. But why do people go down that road? I hate to break it to you, but many many many people have no better choice. Very few inner-city kids are going to be able to study Homer (get a scholarship) when their parents are crack addicts, their friends are all in gangs, and they live in squalor.

And just as they have the right to commercialize their self-destructive behaviors, you have the right to rail against it. But your energies, in my opinion, are better spent not electing people who do nothing to curb these conditions, who don't believe race and poverty are important issues to manage, etc. Keep on attacking the gangstas if it makes you feel better. I would rather go after bigger fish myself. I would rather see people get pissed off and do something about the economic and social issues that support the existance and need of gangs.

[shrugs]

Phillies Blunts can now be bought at almost every convience store.

[Dr Dave]

Societal aspects of hip-hop: More white kids with gold chains and baggy shorts.

[Enforcer]

I neglected to mention a couple of artists who do make very cool music videos: Busta Rhymes and Missy Elliot.

[rollhead]

Do the caps have to have the totally flat brims?

[rollhead]

Mr. T Sheds His Gold Chains
AP
PASADENA, Calif. (July 14) - Mr. T has given himself a makeover.

The former television action star shed the piles of gold chains that were his signature look after witnessing the destruction from Hurricane Katrina.

Mr. T (real name: Lawrence Tero) will give out life advice on TV Land's "I Pity the Fool" starting this October.
"As a spiritual man, I felt it would be a sin against my God for me to wear all that gold again because I spent a lot of time with the less fortunate," the actor said Thursday at the Television Critics Association's summer meeting.

"I saw some, I call it 'sorry celebrities.' They'll go down there and hook up with the people to take a photo-op. I said, `How disgusting.' If you're not going to go down there with a check and a hammer and a nail to help the people, don't go down there."

Mr. T, whose real name is Lawrence Tero, stars in "I Pity the Fool" debuting in October on TV Land. He dispenses advice to viewers who are struggling with life's problems.

The former star of "The A-Team" said he's about more than his rough-and-tough image.

"Yes, I am qualified to beat people up. But I am pretty intelligent," he said. "That's what throws people off. If you've been through something, that gives you an authority that you can speak on certain things. That's why people relate to me. I pull no punches."

[Chris D]

Never knew T was an MC.

[Gary Sisco]

Hip hop has bad videos? bullshit. Check this one at Sullivan's site. Now this is a real threat to civilization:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

I neglected to mention a couple of artists who do make very cool music videos: Busta Rhymes and Missy Elliot.

Ha! When I read your first post, I was going to ask 'Have you seen Busta Rhymes' videos?'

Well, it just shows to go ya gotta get up early in the morning to one-up ole Larry Lar

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Chris D

Never knew T was an MC.

ultratrue, asshole. He's a DJ.

[Gary Sisco]

In Jamaica, what we call MCs are called DJs. What we call DJs are called selectors.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

In Jamaica, what we call MCs are called DJs...

Though it's less confusing to call them toasters instead.

[Gary Sisco]

I only brought it up because of rapping's Jamaican roots.

[rollhead]

Gary takes his toaster to every gig.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Societal aspects of hip-hop: More white kids with gold chains and baggy shorts.

You forgot to mention the hand thing:

[Gary Sisco]

Clown has no idea what he's doing with his fingers or why. What would the world do without fools?

Rollhead -- Nah, I'm a strict modernist. Nothing but chrome, baby, and sleek, clean lines.

[Doc Martin]

Originally Posted by shrugs

Phillies Blunts can now be bought at almost every convience store.

What's up with blunts, everytime one gets passed my way; it's like; "Did you put any Shiba in this bitch".

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Doc Martin

What's up with blunts, everytime one gets passed my way; it's like; "Did you put any Shiba in this bitch".

"Smile, when you ask me that, bitch."

[Doc Martin]

Originally Posted by rollhead

"Smile, when you ask me that, bitch."

No..no..no.. I said "Did you put any Shiba in this bitch", not "Did you put any Shiba in this, bitch", bitch refers to the blunt, you dig? It's like if you are in a building, you haven’t been in before; you might ask "Where’s the bathroom 'round this bitch?”, this time the bitch is the building.
I know, I spend a lot of time in the Bronx.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Doc Martin

No..no..no.. I said "Did you put any Shiba in this bitch", not "Did you put any Shiba in this, bitch", bitch refers to the blunt, you dig? It's like if you are in a building, you haven’t been in before; you might ask "Where’s the bathroom 'round this bitch?”, this time the bitch is the building.
I know, I spend a lot of time in the Bronx.

I worked with a Mexican cook once would would always correct me when I said, "You talk to me that way, and I will slap you like I slap my bitch."


He would say,

"No, No, no, no..... if I talk to you that way, you will slap me like you slap your BITCHES!" (bitches is plural, you see?)

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

I only brought it up because of rapping's Jamaican roots.

I wonder if the difference in use has to do with the fact that Herc was a DJ in both senses.