CIMP sounds good

I'm listening to "South Eastern" by Kalaprush & The Light, and maybe it's just the unique nature of this tenor-tuba-drums band, but I really like the way this disc sound, and I'm a real loss to understand why the minions don't like the sound on these CIMP releases.

I like the sound Pfister produces on the Hat releases, but I suspect only someone who thinks Big Macs are gourmet food could think that Hat recordings sound "natural." I'm sorry, but there's way too much of an ethereal atmosphere on those Hat releases to qualify them as "natural sounding."

I suspect it's because all the minion-nerds grow up listening to overly-processed noodle-rock like Genesis, Soft Machine, Yes, and other sundry prog-rock crapola. They can't listen to anything that isn't highly processed, sound wise.

You motherfuckers need to go listen to some good ol' classic lo-fi Black Flag records to understand what real, unprocessed sound feels like.

[Brian Olewnick]

On a good day, Alex can out-Reynolds Reynolds. Love it. Needs to work on his spacing though....

Ooh, Brian, that crack is getting you a choice spot on my shitlist, buddy...

[shrugs]

I told those CIMP hating mo'fo's to bust up and send me their CIMPs but I haven't seen any. If they are so bad, why keep them around?

[Joe Milazzo]

...overly-processed noodle-rock...

CIMP or not, and maybe I'm just hungry, but the image of a big greasy bowl of lo mein seems about right as a description here...

[Uli]

Originally posted by Alex

I suspect it's because all the minion-nerds grow up listening to overly-processed noodle-rock like Genesis, Soft Machine, Yes, and other sundry prog-rock crapola. They can't listen to anything that isn't highly processed, sound wise.

heheh. I blame that not just for their sound but also for their music preferences.

[Vince Kargatis]

Originally posted by Alex
I like the sound Pfister produces on the Hat releases, but I suspect only someone who thinks Big Macs are gourmet food could think that Hat recordings sound "natural." I'm sorry, but there's way too much of an ethereal atmosphere on those Hat releases to qualify them as "natural sounding."

Hm, I don't remember hearing descriptions of Hats as "natural", just "great-sounding". To be honest, I find natural-sounding recordings, especially in rooms as dry (thx Walt) as the Spirit Room, are not all that desirable to me. Even good stereos (and mine is decent enough) are very far away from "natural" - so I'm generally more interested in sounding "good". So I'll take the Quarter Pfister with cheese, please.

Originally posted by Vince Kargatis
Hm, I don't remember hearing descriptions of Hats as "natural", just "great-sounding"

From "Ever Read a Bad Cadence Review of a CIMP CD?", Speak Out, post by Steve Reynolds:

"I do enjoy sound au natural [...] the closest I can can get to hearing Joe Maneri's quartet live is through a Peter Pfister master."


Sorry, I love Peter Pfister, and Hat discs, but "natural" is the last word I would use to describe the sound.


Besides, it's obvious this thread is just a transparent attempt to provoke Reynolds out of retirement...it's gotten boring around these parts.

[Clay Fink]

Originally posted by Alex
Sorry, I love Peter fister

Huh?

CF, that's about as clever as all those jokes about Broetzmann's Balls and Nipples.

[walto]

Dave I haven't kept too many CIMPs, but I probably have a couple around you can have. Come and get 'em.

And Alex (and Uli and whoever else can't understand this), for the fiftieth time, the problem with CIMPs is that "The Spirit Room" or the "Rossie Room" or whatever the fuck Rusch calls his living room these days doesn't resonate worth a damn. It's a DEAD ROOM.

Do you really not understand that some performance spaces are better than others? That's why concert halls sometimes have to hire acoustical engineers to fix problems. Rusch apparently won't even take up his shag rug or whatever the hell is eating up all the bass and half of everything else. How complicated is this concept?

You like 'em all? Mazel Tov. I think most of them sound like shit (and Genesis was way after my time).

We've all had a time in our lives when we experienced intense resentment towards a former boss, but what's so cute about it in Walto's case is how it takes the form of feigning an objective criticism of the acoustic quality of said boss's living room.

[walto]

Interesting theory, except that Rusch was never my "boss."

And, of course, also that the sound on most CIMPS really is lame (as even some of the musicians who've played on the label agree).

BTW, you don't hear me teeing off on CJR--also a Rusch label. Is that because some other member of his family was a better boss?

[Nate Dorward]

For what it's worth I have been strongly enjoying the new Trio-X disc on CIMP, Journey, which has excellent sound among other things. But truth be told it's sonically quite untypical of many of the CIMPs I've heard: one doesn't need to crank up the volume to unbelievable levels, all three instruments can be heard clearly, & it's quite acceptably balanced & mixed.

The problem with CIMPs isn't just the sound: it's that many of the discs simply seem indulgently produced: few of them are less than 60 minutes long, & many crack the 70-minute barrier, or spill over into multiple volumes; the track-lengths tend to be very long (circa 7-15 minutes).

Anyway, I've previously been fairly skeptical of the CIMP aesthetic, but will have to cut the label a little more slack given that the McPhee/Duval/Rosen disc is undoubtedly first-rate.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by walto
BTW, you don't hear me teeing off on CJR...

For a second, I thought you wrote "CLR". Maybe just to piss Alex off.

[walto]

You're right Nate. I've never denied either that there are several CIMPs I like very much or that I haven't heard most of them.

[frankpop1]

it's obvious this thread is just a transparent attempt to provoke Reynolds out of retirement...it's gotten boring around these parts.

well, reynolds last claimed that cimp fans were in denial [an ego defense mechanism] if we heard bass on cimp. my theory is that reynolds admits to using headphones all the time while listening to music and has probably destroyed his little inner ear hairs and cant hear the bass.

now im listening to walter's former boss's release of a mcphee cd with bisio. damn i may be in denial, but i do hear somthing akin to a bass....it's sounding underneath mcphees staccato sax...

boom bom bom bm bm bm..bm d bmbmbm.........

[shrugs]

have those who don't like CIMP given any thought to their own rooms acoustics and speaker placement?

[walto]

Ah....you and Alex and your fancy-shmancy sub-woofers, pre-amps, and accoustically designed living quarters.


CIMP: The Label For Those Who've Got It All

[jazzfiend]

damn straight! they sound open & airy in my killer music room.

I wish, Walt. My listening device these days is a Sony Discman with one of the volume-control thingies (so that I don't end up with ears like Reynolds) and an affordable pair of Sony earbuds from the local electronics chain.

I'm with frankypop; I think my young ears are just better preserved than Reynolds. I'm one of those people who can hear the swishing of feet under heavy traffic. And I definitely hear the bass on CIMP releases (or the Tuba, in this case).

Maybe it's just a matter of taste (forbidden words on this bulletin board, I know). I dig that certain razzle-dazzle of Pfister's atmospherics, but something about that dry, pristine sound on a CIMP release has a charm of its own.

[MRS]

You're aligning Hat w/ECM and I couldn't disagree more. But I can listen to CIMPs without pain. Like Dave says. . .send them to me if they you detest them so!

Yup, Michael. I never understood the types on this BBS who cream themselves with delight over the sounds on Hats but diss the ECM sound. I'm sorry, but they're more similar than different. I don't think it's a coincidence that Maneri is on both labels.

My point is that Hats just don't sound live. They sound *superb*, but they don't sound realistic.

[MRS]

I can accept that. I think you are though moving toward an extreme when you bring up ECM. When one says "ECM," I think immediately of a type of music (for better or worse). When I think Hat, I don't think of a type of music. I think Maneri sounds very different on each label. And if anyone can't find a "Three Men Walking" I just saw one used at lunch today.

[walto]

What was it being used for/as?

[shrugs]

Originally posted by walto
Ah....you and Alex and your fancy-shmancy sub-woofers, pre-amps, and accoustically designed living quarters.


CIMP: The Label For Those Who've Got It All

What does speaker placement have to do with that?

[Dig Gonsalves]

Anybody have the Pfister "Dissonant Characters" by Eskelin/Bennik? A little creamy with a large dose of brittle.
In this case, especially minus a bassist, I'd probably prefer the Spririt Room/Rusch version if I had my druthers.

[walto]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by walto
Ah....you and Alex and your fancy-shmancy sub-woofers, pre-amps, and accoustically designed living quarters.


CIMP: The Label For Those Who've Got It All
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What does speaker placement have to do with that?




I think you also mentioned "Your own room's acoustics," didn't you?

Anyhow, I don't believe that stuff about Alex and his Walkman. I hear he lives in the one suite on the top floor of the Plaza that OZ doesn't have dibs on.

[Bill Barton]

This thread definitely gets the fabled five stars compared to other CIMP pro and con ramblings hereabouts. Personally, I like my wine dry, but my listening space and recordings warm and fruity.

[frankpop1]

but my listening space and recordings warm and fruity.

then go buy some boy george, whatever that means.