Top 10 most influential pop performers

[kenny weir]

Last week my newspaper ran a multi-page spread, ripped from London's Observer, about the 50 most influential albums of all time. I won't bore you with the results; suffice to say they obviously ignored anyone whose heyday was before the LP era.

It got me to thinking about the overall most influential pop music performers - and by pop I mean pretty much anything outside of classical. And not the best or greatest or most brilliant - the most influential

How about ... (in no partiklar order):

Louis Armstrong
Bing Crosby
Jimmie Rodgers
Hank Williams
Elvis Presley
The Beatles
Kraftwerk
Bob Dylan

Hmmm ... only eight. Lemme think about ...

[BaconFat]

In no particuliar order, I think
Louis Armstrong
Elvis Presley
The Beatles
James Brown
Micheal Jackson
ParliamentFunkadelic
The Temptations/The Supremes tied
Led Zeppelin
Ray Charles
Aretha Franklin.
Strictly looking at global influence on all of their followers in all genres outside of classical and for the most part jazz though James, Ray, Aretha
and even P Funk have had an impact on that too. Peace.

[BlueMiles]

It would be hard to do this with scientific accuracry.

Some others worth consideration:

Frank Sinatra

Johnny Cash

Sam Cooke

[Robert de St. Loup]

Just as almost all thoroughbred racehorses are descended from Eclipse, so almost all male country singers of the last 40 years are descended from Lefty Frizzell.

[Ron Thorne]

Kraftwerk?

[John L]

Are we just considering Americans and Brits?

Edith Piaf? Bob Marley? Umm Khultum? Franco? Cheb Khaled?

[Deadlift]

Chuck Berry. Almost all rockers in the past 45 years did, and still do, Chuck's licks, including at least four heretofore mentioned.

[Paul B]

Bing Crosby
Louis Armstong
Frank Sinatra
Elivs Presley
Bob Dylan
Johnny Cash
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
James Brown
Michael Jackson

[JamesH]

Fats Domino, Little Richard and Chuck Berry were big influencers to rock and pop music.

[Surfer]

I think it's hard to overstate Dylan's influence on American music. Before him, no one paid attention to lyrics in popular music. Hell, no one paid attention to "albums". Sure, Elvis was the great popularizer, and The Beatles were the first mega-group, but Dylan (whose influence on the Beatles was greater than their influence on him) made pop music "important", and worthy of reflection, worthy of liner notes. Plus he took so many different styles of music and sythesized them in his music. He would get my vote for Single Most Influential Pop Musician of the 20th Century:

Bing Crosby
Louis Armstong
Frank Sinatra
Elivs Presley
Bob Dylan
Chuck Berry
The Beatles
Hank Williams
James Brown
Michael Jackson

Non Brits / Americans: Caetano Veloso, Salif Keita, David Hasselhoff

[Rob Damen]

How about the Eagles ...

http://jazzcornertalk.com/speakeasy/...d.php?p=528559

Cheers,

Rob

[Paul B]

Though (as you say in the thread you link to) the Eagles may have influenced much of the country music that came after them--a notion I'd guess some might even dispute--that still doesn't put them in the league with most of the players and bands mentioned so far on this thread who have had a much larger reach. And of course selling tons of records doesn't matter, as influence on musicians and not popularity among listeners is at issue.

[Rob Damen]

I just threw it out there for thought because I've heard many critics (some who are personal friends of mine, for instance) make the same comment many times over the years that they felt much of what constituted the rather recent rise of country music over the last decade or so was grounded in the Eagles' sound in many respects, particularly their early 70's material.

When you consider that that kind of "mainstreamed" country music has been one of the biggest selling forms of music over that time, I'd say the Eagles' influence on other performers is enormous. Consider that a lot of their material has been covered quite a bit over the years. Personally, I thought they wrote a lot of nice radio-ready music and wouldn't think of putting them artistically on the same level as many of the giants mentioned here, but I do believe, despite my personal reservations of their actual quality, that they have been hugely influential.

I begrudge the admittance, but make it nonetheless.

They belong on the list.

Cheers,

Rob

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

I just threw it out there for thought because I've heard many critics (some who are personal friends of mine, for instance) make the same comment many times over the years that they felt much of what constituted the rather recent rise of country music over the last decade or so was grounded in the Eagles' sound in many respects, particularly their early 70's material.

When you consider that that kind of "mainstreamed" country music has been one of the biggest selling forms of music over that time, I'd say the Eagles' influence on other performers is enormous. Consider that a lot of their material has been covered quite a bit over the years. Personally, I thought they wrote a lot of nice radio-ready music and wouldn't think of putting them artistically on the same level as many of the giants mentioned here, but I do believe, despite my personal reservations of their actual quality, that they have been hugely influential.

I begrudge the admittance, but make it nonetheless.

They belong on the list.

Cheers,

Rob

There would be no Country-Rock without Dylan. There would be no Eagles without Dylan. So I think you could safely omit the Eagles as long as you had Dylan on there.

[Rob Damen]

And you'll have to forgive me ...

I've been enjoying CMT's "Hee Haw" marathon, so maybe that's what made me think of it. Listening to some of Hank Williams Jr., you can't help but think a little of the Eagles here and there, but not overtly, I'd say.

It was cool to hear Tammy Wynette singing "Woman to Woman" in a slightly different arrangment than the record. I could swear it sounded just like an Aretha song or at the least like Dusty Springfield on "Dusty in Memphis," perhaps my favorite pop album. I took it for granted back in the day, but that show has a treasure trove of great performances. Roy Clark was a monster player, too.

Cheers,

Rob

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Surfer

There would be no Country-Rock without Dylan. There would be no Eagles without Dylan. So I think you could safely omit the Eagles as long as you had Dylan on there.

I think Garth Brooks sounds more like the Eagles than he does Dylan. The Eagles sanded off a lot of the rough edges of Dylan's ideas and have a much cleaner sound, which is more indicative of the mainstream country sound that's dominant now. Plus there's the vocal harmonies which aren't present in Dylan, but are common in most of these newer country records.

I'd say the Eagles are a more relevant influence than Dylan on country music, much as I hate to admit it.

Cheers,

Rob

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

I think Garth Brooks sounds more like the Eagles than he does Dylan. The Eagles sanded off a lot of the rough edges of Dylan's ideas and have a much cleaner sound, which is more indicative of the mainstream country sound that's dominant now. Plus there's the vocal harmonies which aren't present in Dylan, but are common in most of these newer country records.

I'd say the Eagles are a more relevant influence than Dylan on country music, much as I hate to admit it.

Cheers,

Rob

Of course Garth is closer to the Eagles than Dylan. That's not what I'm arguing.

When I listen to Nashville Skyline, all I can think about is The Eagles, and that came out in 1969, which predates the first Eagles album by 3 years. Eagles may have had a greater influence overall (actually, I'd argue that Gram Parsons had a greater influence on Country-Rock than the Eagles) but Dylan started the genre with JWH and NS.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Of course Garth is closer to the Eagles than Dylan. That's not what I'm arguing.

When I listen to Nashville Skyline, all I can think about is The Eagles, and that came out in 1969, which predates the first Eagles album by 3 years. Eagles may have had a greater influence overall (actually, I'd argue that Gram Parsons had a greater influence on Country-Rock than the Eagles) but Dylan started the genre with JWH and NS.

My point in saying Brooks is closer to the Eagles than Dylan was to hint that the Eagles aren't one in the same with Dylan ... meaning that Dylan doesn't quite cover everything. The Eagles are distinctive, if nowhere near as good. In that space between is where a lot of people picked up on their sound and began using it for their own purposes. Parsons is important, but doesn't have that polish that is rather evident in those modern country mainstream records that's much clearer in the Eagles. I prefer Parsons much more, but I'm not letting my personal tastes get in the way here.

Cheers,

Rob

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

My point in saying Brooks is closer to the Eagles than Dylan was to hint that the Eagles aren't one in the same with Dylan ... meaning that Dylan doesn't quite cover everything. The Eagles are distinctive, if nowhere near as good. In that space between is where a lot of people picked up on their sound and began using it for their own purposes. Parsons is important, but doesn't have that polish that is rather evident in those modern country mainstream records that's much clearer in the Eagles. I prefer Parsons much more, but I'm not letting my personal tastes get in the way here.

Cheers,

Rob

Yeah, we're really arguing two different views of "Influential" here. I'm saying you can knock out the whole Country-Rock genre with "Dylan", because in my opinion, he invented it. You're saying that the Eagles sound influenced more of the modern AOR country and country-rock sound, which is also true.

So here we are.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Yeah, we're really arguing two different views of "Influential" here. I'm saying you can knock out the whole Country-Rock genre with "Dylan", because in my opinion, he invented it. You're saying that the Eagles sound influenced more of the modern AOR country and country-rock sound, which is also true.

So here we are.

Chuck Berry, you could argue, invented rock and roll, does that mean I eliminate the Beatles and the Rolling Stones?

Cheers,

Rob

[Paul B]

Nonetheless, "modern country" or whatever you want to call it is still only a niche, and as Surfer says, Dylan and others (Cash, Williams, etc.) have had a far deeper influcence OVERALL on country music than the Eagles. I just can't see the Eagles in a top ten in this category. I'd put Parliament/Funkadelic on my list before I'd put the Eagles there.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Paul B

Nonetheless, "modern country" or whatever you want to call it is still only a niche, and as Surfer says, Dylan and others (Cash, Williams, etc.) have had a far deeper influcence OVERALL on country music than the Eagles. I just can't see the Eagles in a top ten in this category. I'd put Parliament/Funkadelic on my list before I'd put the Eagles there.

That's a pretty big niche! It was for a while, and may still be, the biggest "niche" out there in "popular" music.

Having said that, practically nobody out there today really sounds like Dylan, Cash and Williams. They are not the influence on country music they once were, top to bottom. Shockingly enough, I'll disagree, I think the Eagles have had more influence on what the music sounds like and has sounded like today, much as I don't care to say it.

Cheers,

Rob

[Rob Damen]

And, of course ...

Sly Stone

Cheers,

Rob

[Paul B]

Sly is a reasonable choice, though I'd probably not put him in the top ten.

Doesn't matter what's big today or whether the newer country players don't sound like the older guys; they still wouldn't exist without the earlier influences. In the overall arc of American pop music--from Pops and Bing onward--the Eagles just don't have the influence of the other names proposed for this list.

Bye-ya

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Paul B

Sly is a reasonable choice, though I'd probably not put him in the top ten.

Doesn't matter what's big today or whether the newer players sound like the older guys; they still wouldn't exist without the earlier influences. In the overall arc of American pop music--from Pops and Bing onward--the Eagles just don't have the influence of the other names proposed for this list.

Bye-ya

Modern country music wouldn't sound as it does today without the Eagles. And the Eagles wouldn't sound as they do without Dylan. It's all a connected thread ... but isn't that obvious? Where things change does matter and those things should be acknowledged, especially when the genre has become an unquestionably dominant one. And the Eagles clearly represent a time when it did change. Do I think they are as important as Pops or Bing? No. That's not quite what I'm getting at exactly. But I thought they should be mentioned because their influence is huge nonetheless. Plus, it's more interesting to select people who are not an obvious choice.

I hear Sly's influence wherever I go. I have no problem putting in there.

Cheers,

Rob

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Chuck Berry, you could argue, invented rock and roll, does that mean I eliminate the Beatles and the Rolling Stones?

Cheers,

Rob

Yes and no. I eliminated the Stones precisely for that reason, and for the reason that they did not influence as many bands in my opinion as the Beatles (who are there for their influence on pop songcraft, and using non-blues based melodies, and really for creating the idea of a media supergroup) and Chuck Berry.

So the answer is yes, you could. Except that I have the Beatles on my list for other reasons.

[Paul B]

But I thought they should be mentioned because their influence is huge nonetheless.

Great. Mention them. But they still don't merit a spot in the top ten, despite your love of pretentious contrarianism.

Bye-ya

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Yes and no. I eliminated the Stones precisely for that reason, and for the reason that they did not influence as many bands in my opinion as the Beatles (who are there for their influence on pop songcraft, and using non-blues based melodies, and really for creating the idea of a media supergroup) and Chuck Berry.

So the answer is yes, you could. Except that I have the Beatles on my list for other reasons.

Well, that's my point. There's a lot of Chuck Berry's material that covers much of what the Beatles did, but it doesn't cover every thing; just as Dylan doesn't cover all parts of what the Eagles did. That standard doesn't truly eliminate anyone in the dicussion. Besides, the Rolling Stones don't really sound exactly like Chuck Berry, so I wouldn't necessarily eliminate them, their.

Cheers,

Rob

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Well, that's my point. There's a lot of Chuck Berry's material that covers much of what the Beatles did, but it doesn't cover every thing; just as Dylan doesn't cover all parts of what the Eagles did. That standard doesn't truly eliminate anyone in the dicussion. Besides, the Rolling Stones don't really sound exactly like Chuck Berry, so I wouldn't necessarily eliminate them, their.

Cheers,

Rob

Let's put it this way. The Beatles took Chuck Berry a looooong way to something completely different, embracing psychedelia (which the Stones aped poorly) tape experiments, and Eastern music. The Rolling Stones essentially remained a blues band, which they always were, but really perfected or honed that art form. One which is slightly different, but more closely related to Chuck Berry. Listing The Rolling Stones and Chuck Berry on the same list of "influential" is a redundancy for me.

Likewise, I dont think what the Eagles did is that far removed from Nashville Skyline or the first International Submarine Band record. Yes they perfected (as did the Stones) it and added their own twist of Beach Boy harmonies, but there would have been other bands that would have done it, maybe not to their commercial success level. It seems you're using the great commercial popularity to argue for widespread influence, but I dont think that equates to depth of influence over musicians and their image, critics, and album or song concepts.

Once Dylan and Gram started Country-Rock, the ball was rolling.


I was just thininking that Van Halen might be right in the top 15, if only because EVH influenced an entire generation of guitar players.

[Dan G]

Velvet Underground and Stooges, without whom there would have been no punk rock (both), no 80s indie rock (VU), grunge (Stooges)...