James Carter fans unite!

Uli · July-13th-2003, 11:18 PM

Maybe it's not legit but what the hey.

Clearily a minority here in JC.

Count me as the first to complain about the chilli wind we have to endure in the community.

bluenoter · July-14th-2003, 01:23 AM

Uli--I deleted my posts, and you might want to delete #2.

Anyway, back to James Carter. I've heard him only in soundclips.

JC on the Set
Jurassic Classics
The Real Quiet Storm
Conversin' with the Elders
In Carterian Fashion
Chasin' the Gypsy
Layin' in the Cut

I've heard people around here praise Conversin' with the Elders and Chasin' the Gypsy, but I'm pretty sure that they're not for me. As I read through AMG's blurbs, I get the impression that some of the others aren't for me either--at least not as an intro. to Carter.

That leaves JC on the Set, possibly to be followed by Jurassic Classics. Does anyone care to comment on those two CDs? (I don't know how hard to find they are.)

Edit: Or does anyone recommend starting with him as a sideman on a Bluiett or Hemphill CD instead? I see that he's on two Hemphill CDs that I've heard a lot of praise for.

Nate Dorward · July-14th-2003, 01:57 AM

The Real Quietstorm is a strong album, & is probably a good place to start. Ignore the title & hideous cover-art: the music is a lot better than you'd expect from them.

Bill Barton · July-14th-2003, 03:18 AM

Uli, that chill wind is gonna blow by, believe me. Count me in as, apparently, the first registered believer. Two of the most potent live performances I've ever experienced were the first time I heard Carter (in Burlington, VT at a dive called - at that time, who knows what it is now - Club Metronome) and at the Montreal International Jazz Festival locking horns with Ricky Ford. And he wasn't too shabby the other times I've heard him live either. He gets panned for many of the same reasons Rahsaan was panned.
He's like a bright red Ferrari in a world of tricked-out Hondas with ugly fake spoilers.

Kevin Bresnahan · July-14th-2003, 07:56 AM

Count me in Carter's fan club. I saw him at Sculler's in Boston many years ago and it was a virtuoso performance. I won't forget that soon. He wailed! It was like being transported back in time.

Having said this, he really needs to put out another record that draws me back into his camp. His last 4 releases have been so-so with "In A Carterian Fashion" not sitting well with me at all. Also, I caught him at the Regattabar a couple of years back and it was very weak... and left me extremely disappointed. You what I think was the reason?? The first time, he had his "regular" band at the time, Craig Taborn, Jaribu Shahid and Tani Tabbal. The second time it was like it was a pick-up band. Too bad Carter couldn't keep that original band together.

Later,
Kevin

Gentle Giant · July-14th-2003, 09:16 AM

The only time I've seen him live, he was with Lester Bowie's New York Organ Ensemble (which should've been around longer, it was a great group). I hadn't heard of him before, but he really blew me away. Some of the negative stuff I've read about him here made me wary, and I'm done with cats doing albums of standards (sorry, Greg Osby). I'm more than happy to hear original voices doing their own work, but I guess I've never found the CD that I felt would recapture the energy and excitement of that performance with Lester.

patricia · July-14th-2003, 09:49 AM

I have two of Carter's CD's, "The Real Quietstorm" and "Chasin' The Gypsy", my first [on the recommendation of my jazz mentor, a huge fan], was "Quietstorm". I don't listen to them as often as some of my other music, but when I do, I enjoy them.

Chazro · July-14th-2003, 10:20 AM

Wazzup All!

Carter's work on the 'Kansas City' soundtrack is exceptional!

Bill Barton · July-14th-2003, 01:49 PM

Carter's clarinet playing is vastly underrated IMHO. We heard him in Seattle a few months back in a tribute to Rahsaan Roland Kirk with Steve Turre et al. It was the first time I had heard him play clarinet in performance, and he was incredible: chops, imagination, soul, fire, spirit, and respect for all of the instrument's traditions in the music.

Chris D · July-14th-2003, 01:57 PM

The guy has perhaps the most talent on the scene. I wish he'd play more baritone; the bari numbers, especially on "Quietstorm," have a regality and power about them that is very rare.
That said, his records always have deflating moments, when he does something for show, some technical feat of derring do that draws attention to itself at the expense of the piece he's playing.
Fabulous musician, flawed recording artist.

Bill Barton · July-14th-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Bresnahan
Count me in Carter's fan club. I saw him at Sculler's in Boston many years ago and it was a virtuoso performance. I won't forget that soon. He wailed! It was like being transported back in time.

Having said this, he really needs to put out another record that draws me back into his camp. His last 4 releases have been so-so with "In A Carterian Fashion" not sitting well with me at all. Also, I caught him at the Regattabar a couple of years back and it was very weak... and left me extremely disappointed. You what I think was the reason?? The first time, he had his "regular" band at the time, Craig Taborn, Jaribu Shahid and Tani Tabbal. The second time it was like it was a pick-up band. Too bad Carter couldn't keep that original band together.

Later,
Kevin

Some good points regarding his recordings, Kevin! He really is one of those musicians who must be experienced in a live performance situation with compatible players to fully appreciate his talents. He hasn't really made a recording since JC on the Set and The Real Quiet Storm that fully captures my imagination. A live set with that original rhythm section might be the ticket.

Jim Dye · July-14th-2003, 01:58 PM

Some of you may have read this story before. I am also an alumni of Blue Lake fine arts camp and I went on the same European tour in 1984.

http://www-cs.canisius.edu/~bucheger...nedMyLife.html

JAMES CARTER RUINED MY LIFE

In the summer of 1985 I was preparing to tour Europe with a big band fronted by Detroit trumpeter Marcus Belgrave. The band was made up of faculty and staff of Michigan's Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp, and was a very hot group -- in addition to Marcus and Detroit piano legend Harold McKinney, we had folks who'd played with Buddy Rich, Woody Herman, and other name big bands.

Due to an ego-meltdown on the part of one of the guys who was supposed to tour in the sax section, it was announced that his replacement was going to be this 16-year-old kid from Detroit, a camper who was at that moment touring Europe with a Blue Lake student group, but was due back in a couple of weeks. Despite considerable skepticism on the part of some of us (including me), some of the folks who knew this kid, including Marcus, said he'd do fine -- and besides, he was going to hold the second tenor chair: what harm could he do?

His name was James Carter.

I was the first tenor player...

As I began to hear more and more testimonials about James along the lines of "oh, this kid's a mother, just you wait, you'll be amazed," I started to view his arrival with a little apprehension. As the only guy in the band who'd be playing the same axe as this kid, I didn't want to be amazed. I was 24 years old, so I had eight years on him. He couldn't be that hot. I wanted him to stay out of the way, do a competent job, and that's about it. In a big band, there's the first tenor player, and then there's some other guy. As the first tenor player in this band, I thought this scheme had its merits....

I knew it was him the first moment I heard him. One day, between sessions, during those languid few days when faculty and staff hang out and talk about what a great place camp would be if only there weren't any kids around, somebody was in the woods wailing on a tenor sax. James was due back, and I realized it had to be him.

Damn! I was in trouble.

Believe it or not, James at 16 was not all that far removed from James today. He already had that massive, glorious sound. That same grandstanding confidence and youthfully exuberant tendency toward excess. He knew he was bad.

I considered him evil.

It was not like he was Mozart and I was Salieri. It was more like he was Mozart, and I was a plumber.

I became James's baby-sitter. James was my roommate. Although I had ample opportunities to smother him with a pillow, or push him in front of a moving car, I did not do so. (This may have been the greatest contribution to jazz I will ever make. I hope not.)

So how did he become the monster player he is? Well, first of all, he's a born player. The camp had a museum of rare and exotic instruments. While most folks weren't permitted to touch them, James, indulged as he was by everyone (sigh), got chances to give things a try. He could pick up anything, and in a matter of minutes get something happening. (A serpentine? Been there... Sackbut? Done that... Didjeridoo? Doin' it tomorrow...)

However, that is of course only half of it. James was also, sad to say, very disciplined about practicing. Not that he'd play scales and stuff (I never heard him do that...), but rather he'd just be playing. Constantly. Always. He always had a Walkman on, playing tapes of saxophonists and figuring out their stuff. In fact, there were times when I'd awaken to James, in the dark, quietly -- but not quietly enough -- trying to cop some licks off his Walkman.

"James, Jesus, it's THREE in the morning! I'm up at seven. Man, bed time, already!"

"Sorry. I was trying to figure something out."

It sounds like a cliché, but there were times when I'd find James asleep in bed with his horn, as if he had just one more thing to figure out but didn't quite make it... I'd gingerly take his horn and put it in its case.

Here are some of my musical recollections of James at 16: first of all, and I think this offers insight into James today -- James had R&B bar-walking tenor down COLD. He could totally do that screaming blues thang (I still can't), and it would electrify audiences. And here's another important thing: James was into electrifying audiences. I've seen him incite near riots! He'd get honking on a single note, juicing it up and fingering it about nine different ways, then let loose with a grating altissimo shriek that also happened to be exactly the right thing to do for that moment.

A trumpeter in the band, trying to cheer me up, noted that James was listening to a lot of baritonist Leo Parker. "Aw, man, he's just doin' Leo Parker!" And in fact, I think James was getting a lot of stuff from Leo Parker back then. Though he had lots of other goodies in his bag of tricks as well....

We were staying in the basement of the Heidi House, which was where the visionary founders of the camp, Fritz and Gretchen Stansell, live. I'm a good friend of their son, Tom, who now lives in Copenhagen with his wife and daughter -- he met his wife on this tour, so it wasn't a disaster for everybody. Tom had a great record collection, and James voraciously dived into it. I know that's the first time he heard the Johnny Griffin / Lockjaw Davis stuff, and he seriously checked it out. (Serious is the word, too -- when James heard something he liked, he didn't smile and say "wow, that's cool" or whatever. Instead, he'd frown and concentrate -- and try to figure it out.)

On a personal level, we related together OK, I guess, considering I was the guy who'd have to get James to bed at night and up in the morning, and just in general keep him out of trouble, while at the same time I envied the living hell out of him. (He was also handsome and very popular with the girls at camp -- basically, he was the polar opposite of everything I was at age 16...)

James knew, and hell, so did everybody else, that my playing couldn't touch his. He was playing the second chair book, but taking the lion's share of the solos -- he'd just sort of end up with them: "hey, let's let James blow on this one, 'cuz he's a youngster and folks will get a kick out of how well he can play." I lived in terror that someone would suggest a tenor battle; James would've been Julia Childs to my groggy lobster, ready for the pot.

It didn't happen, because the other band members knew I was in a tough spot, and were gentle about it. Marcus was very cool and always encouraging to me, even though my ego and self-esteem were at a low that summer, I'm sorry to say.

And James, dammit, was a good kid. He had a big ego, of course -- I mean, he was a 16-year-old kid who could do stuff on a sax that was phenomenal, and he knew it. And yet, he wasn't egotistical -- just supremely confident. On any tune, at any tempo, in any key, if somebody would say "who wants to blow on this" he'd nod his head and get into the queue. And smoke!

If he was a kid like most kids, it wouldn't have been surprising if he had said to me, his jail keeper, something along the lines of "I could kick your ass on tenor." He never did that.

He did start calling me "Lip", all the time, both for the fact that I had the nervous habit of constantly cracking jokes, and because I had an embouchure problem back then that James, a natural, spotted right away. It wasn't said to be cruel; he just wanted to make sure that I knew he knew.

One musical vignette: in Arhus, Denmark, there was a jam session after our concert. James picked up somebody's alto and ripped through the changes of an up-tempo Cherokee as if he were the guy who'd thought them up. Fred Noren, a fine Swedish trumpeter and member of the band (today he leads the Stockholm Jazz Orchestra), put it this way (insert Swedish accent here): "Bird, man! He sounds like Charlie Parker!"

And he DID, dammit: he DID sound like Charlie Parker!

I quit playing at the end of the tour. While everybody else went home, I went to Paris to lick my wounds and spend what I made on the trip with the woman who'd eventually be my wife -- she was living in Paris at the time. I renounced the saxophone because it didn't seem like there was room for a tenor-player like me on a planet that had 16-year-old kids who could play like James.

I picked it up again about six months later, when I realized that, James or no James, if I wasn't a saxophonist then I really didn't know who or what I was.

I'm very proud of James and his accomplishments. I watched him work hard, and he's earned what he's got. However, the youthful Mr. Carter leaves me in a paradoxical position: when I grow up, I want to play like the kid!

Kelly Bucheger
Buffalo, NY

Kevin Bresnahan · July-14th-2003, 02:52 PM

Damn.... Leo Parker!! No wonder I dug James' performance so much at Sculler's. I love Leo Parker. If James was emulating Parker back then, that would be right up my alley.

I tell you, I don't know what it was at that show at Sculler's that "got" to me but it sticks in my craw like no other show. I even remember that he was having reed problems with his alto sax during a number and he tried all kinds of stuff to get it to stop with no luck. He was *right in the middle of a wail* and the reed squeeks... James doesn't even stop blowing, really... he just reaches down with a free hand, yanks the mouthpiece off his bari sax, switched it onto his alto and just keeps on wailing like nothing happened! It was something else, let me tell you 'bout it. (A little Leo Parker humor there)

Later,
Kevin

jazzfiend · July-14th-2003, 03:11 PM

The cat is a great talent. Start with The Real Quietstorm, to be followed up by JC on the Set & Jurassic Classics. Carter will lose some of the flash, and can only improve as he matures. My student, still life, is coming along just fine.

Mike Schwartz · July-14th-2003, 03:37 PM

I'm a James Carter fan too!

Live, the cat can be mind blowing....he and David Murray at Yoshi's a couple of months ago...WHEW! Let's just say that there was some STUFF goin' on!

Carter is like the basketball star, who, instead of quietly getting his 25 points per game, along with a pile of rebounds and assists, is always "Mr. highlight reel,slam-dunk,behind the back,ankle breakin',leading the league in steals,mega dollar sneaker contract" on every single tune!

I tire from his accrobatics at times, but fully realize that there are those who couldn't even attempt many of the things he pulls off every time out, which is part of what makes him unique.

He's a lot of fun to hang with, and very charming and entertaining, having done a couple of projects with him for radio.

Squaredancecalling Steve · July-14th-2003, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Barton
He's like a bright red Ferrari in a world of tricked-out Hondas with ugly fake spoilers.

I really dig automobile similes: they always sound so cool and I never have the slightest idea what they mean.

Kevin Bresnahan · July-14th-2003, 03:50 PM

All this talk about Carter... many people probably don't even have one his more enjoyable sets: A disc of duets with Cyrus Chestnut. I found this in a used store and it is some kind of "for radio only" release. It's a really nice session. For some reason I dig sax & piano duets. It's too bad it never got into general release.

Later,
Kevin

LeMo · July-14th-2003, 08:41 PM

The duet with Chestnut was a free sample record that you could get when buying in the FNAC's shop, in France & in Belgium, Chesnut album "The Dark Before The Dawn" or Carter "The Real Quiet Storm" the following weeks of their released.
I didn't buy none of those titles but get it from a good friend who works at FNAC.
It was a special seesion donne for Warner France (March 14th 1995). The Producer was Yves Beauvais.
Titles include "The Stevedore's Serenade" (a title from Duke that I never seen cover elsewhere - and never heard of it before), "Sentimentalia" (CC), "A Rare Gem" (CC), "The Intimacy Of My Woman's Beautiful Eyes" (JC), "Call Me Later" (CC), "Deep Throat Blues" (JC) (music total time: 37:02).
Possibly, is best with "JC on The Set" (it's not to difficult to me to say that, as I own only those two from Carter. But I like them and listen to them time to time).
I seen the guy around that period (1995/96? Can't remember) and I was astonish by his skill (and impress with his beautiful black saxes and his costum) but also by his absolute "vulgarity" has he puts on a silly show with his mouthpiece (changin around at last fifty times his reeds!!!) during one song.
It was absolutely ridiculous and even Craig Taborn seems to feel so as he completely stops to played and stays with his arms cross on his chest, the head down and the eyes closed. JC "entertained" us like that during something like half an hour (I'm not kidding). And I've lived the concert hall before the end!
That was my experience with the flashy mister Carter.
It's maybe one of the reason he didn't kept his band together, don't you think?

patricia · July-14th-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzfiend
The cat is a great talent. Start with The Real Quietstorm, to be followed up by JC on the Set & Jurassic Classics. Carter will lose some of the flash, and can only improve as he matures. My student, still life, is coming along just fine.

Glad to hear it. And, happy to listen to James. Nice, unique, exciting sound. Don, my mentor, recommended "Quietstorm" to be listened to, as an intro and the "Gypsies" after. Good suggestion.

Speaking of mentors, nothing like them, if they really love JAZZ. Seldom has Don, or my subsequent mentors', steered me wrong.
The meticulous responsibility of maintaining a newbie's interest [I still consider myself, even after seven years, a newbie] is key. A couple of stumbles, not because the rec was bad, but because I wasn't ready for the step, just then. All in all, a most gratifying experience, ongoing.

HLJ · July-14th-2003, 09:05 PM

I dig James also.I've got "In Caterian Fashion"and "Layin In The Cut"which is a so-nuff PHAT disc.Read at Allaboutjazz.com his next joint is "Live from Bakers Lounge".From posts here seems he smokes live.Looking forward to copping that one.Peace and all that.

Captain Hate · July-14th-2003, 09:24 PM

Count me in the JC fan club also, although I did pass up a chance to hear him and his organ trio along with Murray over a year ago in NYC; I just wasn't in the mood to hear organ trio music plus they were at a club charging alot... I went to the death knell of the Knitting Factory instead.

But JC has some amazing chops and I'm sure we'll all be hearing a lot from him in the future. Plus anybody that wails on bass sax is fine by moi. I think jazzfiend has things properly prioritized.

Bill Barton · July-14th-2003, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squaredancecalling Steve
I really dig automobile similes: they always sound so cool and I never have the slightest idea what they mean.

Ah, c'mon man, you sell yourself short. I'll bet you know exactly what I meant!

Here's a JC simile just for you:

He's like a curlique and a spin chain thru in a world of do-si-dos.

Squaredancecalling Steve · July-15th-2003, 02:41 AM

Bill: I appreciate your (totally unwarrranted) faith in my knowledge of car slang, but I'm really clueless in this area. I do believe I got your drift, though.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Barton
He's like a curlique and a spin chain thru in a world of do-si-dos.

You're dating your calling era -- Curlique was dropped in the early 80s! Touch 1/4, which is gender-neutral, has completely replaced it.

Did you ever know Clark Baker, who calls for the MIT club? This is from his latest piece, "Barstool Dancing" -- very cool idea:

>>Tell the "barstool" dancer that she must dance as if she is sitting on a barstool. The barstool can swivel, but cannot move. The rest of the dancers must adjust (or breathe) around the barstool. The barstool's position is, by definition, always correct. However, the barstool must be sure to face the correct direction(s) and use hands as the calls are executed....

Heads Go Forward And Back
The barstool can't move. Therefore, the barstool's partner who must remain beside her on a forward and back can't move. So, the other couple does all the moving.
Heads Pass Thru
The barstool and her partner can't move forward. However, the partner does move sideways to allow a dancer through and then steps sideways back to place.
Join Hands; Circle Left (all the way around)
This is not too hard, but has somewhat unexpected action
Spin Chain And Exchange The Gears
...The barstool will "lead out" which will be exciting. <<

EKE BBB · July-15th-2003, 04:20 AM

Another vote for "Jurassic classics". Seven standards revisited, with loooong solos. I especially dig "A train", with its opening train roaring!

Jazzzoline · July-15th-2003, 07:47 PM

James Carter is one of my favorite too. I have all his cd's ( I think). I wait for the next one. BTW when is the next one coming?
I've seen him at the Montréal Jazz fest last year. Quite sublime I must say. He plays like no one.. actually, I don't think he plays.. he talks with his intruments. I LOVE his tonguing ( well.. did i say that?)
I've read he had played with Steve Coleman? ( not sure about that one)

( Now I need an avatar)

Bill Barton · July-16th-2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squaredancecalling Steve
Bill: I appreciate your (totally unwarrranted) faith in my knowledge of car slang, but I'm really clueless in this area. I do believe I got your drift, though.

You're dating your calling era -- Curlique was dropped in the early 80s! Touch 1/4, which is gender-neutral, has completely replaced it.

Did you ever know Clark Baker, who calls for the MIT club?...

I was dropped in the early 1980s too... Gee, even square dancing is "gender neutral" now? Time marches on.

No, never knew Clark Baker

Back to James Carter:

I've never been knocked out by most of Conversin' with the Elders, but absolutely love "FreeReggaeHiBop" with Lester Bowie that opens the disc.

Frisco · July-18th-2003, 09:51 PM

Just happened to hear James tonight at an outdoor jazz ( I use the term loosely, as much of it was smooth jazz, sponsored by a smooth jazz radio station) festival just outside of Detroit.

I've had the opportunity to watch James perform magic with his saxophones as a young kid in the "Bird Trane Sco Now" group and on through time with Rodney Whitaker, Jaribu Shahid & Tani Tabal, etc...

I've also watched a self assured master of the horn grow into a man that exudes a great deal of arrogance and showboating on stage. Which was fine while the music remained strong.

What I witnessed tonight left me shaking my head in disbelief. James Carter's Organ Trio playing some slick grooves that could have made it on the station sponsoring this event. The organist was using samples of some cheesy vocal chorus riffs that sounded just awful.

Hopefully this was a one time deal for Mr. Carter and not the direction that he settles into.

willy · July-20th-2003, 02:12 PM

JC on the Set and Jurassic Classics are fantastic.

Peterdubya · July-22nd-2003, 05:09 PM

I saw James this past weekend with a Django Reinhart project, it was the best I have ever seen him. the whole band was on his level of technical skill, had incredible ideas, and it was one of the best shows I've see all year.

I like James a lot, and this was just great.

Steve Reynolds · July-22nd-2003, 06:17 PM

I used to like Jurassic Classics

last time I tried to listen to it, I could not withstand the absurdity of his 10+ minute take on Take the "A" Train and all of it's extreme excess

lotsa techno bravura - little depth