Bob Dylan - Modern Times

[HenryMc]

Dig it - Dylan - a history of popular song - crooning like bing - out brucing bruce and making tom waits sound like a bob dylan imitator - listen to the humour and the love ..its like sitting at grandpappy's feet while he tells you when the world was young...Man this album is my best for 2006 right now ...no others come close. I wholeheartedly recommend that you buy it.

[Mingus]

Can't wait for it to arrive!

[shrugs]

Ain't talkin'

[Hot Ptah]

Bob Dylan's new album, "Modern Times", has one line of composer credits--"all songs written by Bob Dylan".

However, a cursory listen will reveal "Trouble No More", "Rollin' and Tumblin'" and "Red Sails in the Sunset". These songs have some new lyrics by Bob, but otherwise are performed as the copyrighted songs--but no composer credits are given to the copyrighted composers.

When the Allman Brothers recorded "Trouble No More" on "Eat A Peach", it was credited to Muddy Waters. They did not take even a co-composer credit.

There are many examples of other artists taking songs in this way, and Dylan may have done it himself in the past.

Dylan has championed older recording artists in print and on his radio show. I find it disappointing that he would do this.

[walto]

Strange.

Is there any chance of some lawsuits being brought, HP, or is all this stuff now in the public domain?

[Jack Good]

Originally Posted by Hot Ptah

Bob Dylan's new album, "Modern Times", has one line of composer credits--"all songs written by Bob Dylan".

** If "Someday Baby" on Dylan's album ain't a straight rip-off of John Lee Hooker's "Dimples," I'll eat my Resistol. George Harrison took it in the shorts over "My Sweet Lord" for a much-lesser steal from The Chiffons' "He's So Fine." Be interesting to see if anything happens here.

Originally Posted by Hot Ptah

When the Allman Brothers recorded "Trouble No More" on "Eat A Peach", it was credited to Muddy Waters. They did not take even a co-composer credit.

** Okay, HP, I get 'em slow but I get 'em, uh, good. Muddy's "Trouble No More" is aka "Someday Baby," right? Still, sounds just like "Dimples," so the question is who was "inspired" by whom? Either way, it all happened a long time before Bob Zimmerman got into the act.

[ribot_for_president]

If "Someday Baby" on Dylan's album ain't a straight rip-off of John Lee Hooker's "Dimples," I'll eat my Resistol.

Granted I only heard the snippet in the ITunes commercial, but it reminded me of the tune "Someday Baby" that Jerry Garcia used to do with his solo band. I believe that was a Lightning Hopkins song.

[Gentle Giant]

Similar charges were leveled against Dylan for some of the tunes on Love and Theft; then, of course, the title of the album took on some additional meaning.

Don't know what the truth is as I haven't heard the album yet, but two things: George Harrison was victim of a more naive time; and Dylan can lean on a long tradition of reworking "traditional" tunes and taking his own credit. Al Kooper did it with Wake Me Shake Me on the the Blues Project's Projections, and I'm not sure the Dead hasn't done it liberally, too.

[ribot_for_president]

and I'm not sure the Dead hasn't done it liberally, too.

actually, they've always credited the song as "traditional" or to the original author, even when they've taken liberties, a la Stagger Lee or Peggy-O. Don't believe Hunter claimed to write either of those.

[Jon Abbey]

well, maybe he considers it kind of a return to his own roots. you know, like stealing Dave Van Ronk's take on House of The Rising Sun for his first record.

[Pete C]

The tune "Bye & Bye" on "Love and Theft" is perilously close to the song "I'm Havin' Myself a Time," which Billie Holliday sang in the thirties.

[HenryMc]

Well if he stole 'em he's a tasteful thief

[David Gitin]

The tune "Someday Baby" long precedes Muddy Waters; it was recorded by Maceo Meriwether about 60 years ago.

[Jack Good]

Originally Posted by David Gitin

The tune "Someday Baby" long precedes Muddy Waters; it was recorded by Maceo Meriwether about 60 years ago.

** Good point, David. "Big Maceo" recorded, in 1941, on the Bluebird label, a song titled "Worried Life Blues," based, it seems, on the even-earlier "Someday Baby Blues," by Sleepy John Estes. (The latter's a straight-from-the-Delta chain-gang blues - you can smell the soil, the humidity, the sweat. It sounds very little like the Muddy Waters version, or John Lee Hooker's "Dimples" adaptation.)



** And ribot was on the mark, earlier - Lightnin' Hopkins gets credit in some places for "Someday Baby." Maybe Dylan's on safe ground legally, rippin' off the old stuff and claiming it's his composition 'cause he rewrote the lyric. (But doesn't integrity demand that you at least acknowledge the fact?)

** On a different tack, I gotta say I find what's left of his voice about as pleasant to listen to as dirty dishwater gurgling down the rusty drain at a greasy-spoon diner.

[Lore]

Originally Posted by Jack Good

"Someday Baby Blues," by Sleepy John Estes.

One of my all-time favorites.

[Hot Ptah]

Originally Posted by Jack Good
** And ribot was on the mark, earlier - Lightnin' Hopkins gets credit in some places for "Someday Baby." Maybe Dylan's on safe ground legally, rippin' off the old stuff and claiming it's his composition 'cause he rewrote the lyric. (But doesn't integrity demand that you at least [I

acknowledge[/I] the fact?)

.

He doesn't rewrite the lyrics MUCH here though. In his 1962-66 era, he often reworked the songs he was stealing into unique works, with very different lyrics, and a whole different world outlook than the originals.

Here, he is just changing/adding a word here or there, but most of the original songs remain, both in words and lyrics. It reminds me of an elementary school student copying an encyclopedia article and changing three words so as to not get "caught."

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by shrugs

Ain't talkin'

thanks for this post, shrugs. I didn't make it this far first listen, but made sure to check this track out because you mentioned it, and it's not bad. he actually sounds alive on this one.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by rostasi

Someday Baby by "Bob Dylan"

I don't care what you do, I don't care what you say
I don't care where you go or how long you stay
Someday baby, you ain't gonna worry po' me any more

the way this last line is done is different from Lightnin' Hopkins, but identical to the version of this from the first Allman Brothers record, from 1969.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by rostasi

It would be interesting to see a track-by-track listing of which songs he's taken "liberties" with - maybe from "Love and Theft" too?

I think that was quite intentional, and the reason why it's called Love and "Theft." I don't think he's trying to hide this at all. In fact, I think he wants people to recognize these old tunes in what he's doing now.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by crawjo

I think that was quite intentional, and the reason why it's called Love and "Theft." I don't think he's trying to hide this at all. In fact, I think he wants people to recognize these old tunes in what he's doing now.

yeah, I think so too. my problem isn't with the legalities or the ethics, my problem is that it's really sad to see someone who was overflowing with such inspired lyrics simply run out of insightful things of his own to say.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

yeah, I think so too. my problem isn't with the legalities or the ethics, my problem is that it's really sad to see someone who was overflowing with such inspired lyrics simply run out of insightful things of his own to say.

I don't see it as sad. I think it's sort of a natural development. The intense lyricism that he displayed thirty and forty years ago was simply unsustainable. But that said, I think he still says insightful things, just not in the way he used to. (Although I'm not sure that Modern Times is very insightful. Certainly not on the level of Love and Theft.)

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by crawjo

I don't see it as sad. I think it's sort of a natural development. The intense lyricism that he displayed thirty and forty years ago was simply unsustainable.

maybe it was, and maybe he would have been able to sustain it longer if he had somehow remained an unknown and hadn't had the weight of the world waiting on his next statements, musical and otherwise.

but Blonde on Blonde came out when he was 25, and to me there's something sad about so much of someone's best writing coming that early in life. he arguably had more to say from age 21-25 then he's had in the 40 years since then, that's what I find sad. what you call a "natural development", I see as a somewhat unnatural regression.

[John L]

Yes, Someday Baby goes back to Sleepy John Estes. Eric Clapton always introduces it at his concerts as by Big Maceo, but that is incorrect. Lightnin' didn't write it either.

[Rob C]

All my loyal and my much-loved companions
They approve of me and share my code
I practice a faith that's been long abandoned
Ain't no altars on this long and lonesome road

[Gentle Giant]

This album of old country blues songs went under the radar, but it's a fine album and closely proceeded what's being called his recent trilogy. It came out in 1993 and was his last studio album before Time Out of Mind. In his liner notes (below), he comes clean about the sources of the songs, although, in all but one case the songwriting credit reads "Traditional, arranged by Bob Dylan."



About the Songs
(what they're about)

BROKE DOWN ENGINE is a Blind Willie Mctell masterpiece. it's about trains, mystery on the rails -- the train of love, the train that carried my girl from town -- The Southern Pacific, Baltimore & Ohio whatever -- it's about variations of human longing -- the low hum in meter & syllables. it's about dupes of commerce & politics colliding on tracks, not being pushed around by ordinary standards. it's about revival, getting a new lease on life, not just posing there -- paint chipped & flaked, mattress bare, single bulb swinging above the bed. it's about Ambiguity, the fortunes of the privilege elite, flood control -- watching the red dawn not bothering to dress.

LOVE HENRY is a "traditionalist" ballad. Tom Paley used to do it. a perverse tale. Henry -- modern corporate man off some foreign boat, unable to handle his "psychosis" responsible for organizing the Intelligentsia, disarming the people, an infantile sensualist -- white teeth, wide smile, lotza money, kowtow to fairy queen exploiters & corrupt religious establishments, career minded, limousine double parked, imposing his will & dishonest garbage in popular magazines. he lays his head on a pillow of down & falls asleep. he shoulda known better, he must've had a hearing problem.

STACK A LEE is Frank Hutchinson's version. what does the song say exactly? it says no man gains immortality thru public acclaim. truth is shadowy. in the pre-postindustrial age, victims of violence were allowed (in fact it was their duty) to be judges over their offenders -- parents were punished for their children's crimes (we've come a long way since then) the song says that a man's hat is his crown. futurologists would insist it's a matter of taste. they say "let's sleep on it" but theory already living in the sanitarium. No Rights Without Duty is the name of the game & fame is a trick. playing for time is only horsing around. Stack's in a cell, no wall phone. he is not some egotistical degraded existentialist dionysian idiot, neither does he represent any alternative lifestyle scam (give me a thousand acres of tractable land & all the gang members that exist & you'll see the Authentic alternative lifestyle, the Agrarian one) Billy didn't have an insurance plan, didn't get airsick yet his ghost is more real & genuine than all the dead souls on the boob tube -- a monumental epic of blunder & misunderstanding. a romance tale without the cupidity.

BLOOD IN MY EYES is one of two songs done by the Mississippi Sheiks, a little known de facto group whom in their former glory must've been something to behold. rebellion against routine seems to be their strong theme. all their songs are raw to the bone & are faultlessly made for these modern times (the New Dark Ages) nothing effete about the Mississippi Sheiks.

WORLD GONE WRONG is also by them & goes against cultural policy. "strange things are happening like never before" strange things alright -- strange things like courage becoming befuddled & nonfundamental. evil charlatans masquerading in pullover vests & tuxedos talking gobbledygook, monstrous pompous superficial pageantry parading down lonely streets on limited access highways. strange things indeed -- irrationalist bimbos & bozos, the stuff of legend, coming in from left field -- infamy on the landscape -- "pray to the Good Lord" hit the light switch!

JACK-A-ROE is another Tom Paley ballad (Tom, one of the original New Lost City Ramblers) the young virgin follows her heart (which can't be confined) & in it the secrets of the universe. "there was a wealthy merchant" wealthy & philosophically influential perhaps with an odd penchant for young folk. the song cannot be categorized -- is worlds away from reality but "gets inside" reality anyway & strips it of its steel and concrete. inverted symmetry, legally stateless, traveling under a false passport. "before you step on board, sir..." are you any good at what you do? submerge you personality.

DELIA is one sad tale-two or more versions mixed into one. the song has no middle range, comes whipping around the corner, seems to be about counterfeit loyalty. Delia herself, no Queen Gertrude, Elizabeth 1 or even Evita Peron, doesn't ride a Harley Davidson across the desert highway, doesn't need a blood change & would never go on a shopping spree. the guy in the courthouse sounds like a pimp in primary colors. he's not interested in mosques on the temple mount, armageddon or world war 111, doesn't put his face in his knees & weep & wears no dunce hat, makes no apology & is doomed to obscurity. does this song have rectitude? you bet. toleration of the unacceptable leads to the last round-up. the singer's not talking from a head full of booze.

Jerry Garcia showed me TWO SOLDIERS (Hazel & Alice do it pretty similar) a battle song extraordinaire, some dragoon officer's epaulettes laying liquid in the mud, physical plunge into Limitationville, war dominated by finance (lending money for interest being a nauseating & revolting thing) love is not collateral. hittin' em where they ain't (in the imperfect state that they're in) America when Mother was the queen of Her heart, before Charlie Chaplin, before the Wild One, before the Children of the Sun -- before the celestial grunge, before the insane world of entertainment exploded in our faces -- before all the ancient & honorable artillery had been taken out of the city, learning to go forward by turning back the clock, stopping the mind from thinking in hours, firing a few random shots at the face of time.

RAGGED & DIRTY one of the Willie Browns did this -- schmaltz & pickled herring, stuffed cabbage, heavy moral vocabulary -- sweetness & sentiment, house rocking, superior beauty, not just standing there -- the seductive magic of the thumbs up salute, carefully thought out overtones & stepping sideways, the idols of human worship paying thru the nose, lords of the illogical in smoking jackets, sufferers from a weak education, pieces of a jigsaw puzzle -- taking stupid chances -- being mistreated only just so far.

LONE PILGRIM is from an old Doc Watson record. what attracts me to the song is how the lunacy of trying to fool the self is set aside at some given point. salvation & the needs of mankind are prominent & hegemony takes a breathing spell. "my soul flew to mansions on high" what's essentially true is virtual reality. technology to wipe out truth is now available. not everybody can afford it but it's available. when the cost comes down look out! there wont be songs like these anymore. factually there aren't any now.

-- Bob Dylan

All songs traditional, arranged by Bob Dylan
(ASCAP), published by Special Rider Music
except "Lone Pilgrim" written by B.F. White & Adger M. Pace (publisher and performance rights society unknown.)

[Root Doctor]

The blues isn't about originality, it's about putting your own stamp on something familiar. That's the tradition Dylan works in. I've only listened to "Modern Times" twice, but I warmed up to it significantly the second time around.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

LOVE HENRY is a "traditionalist" ballad. Tom Paley used to do it. a perverse tale.

Judy Henkse does the best version of this I've ever heard, and the Clusone 3 do a great instrumentral version on their album LOVE HENRY.

But I recently heard another fine version, and it's going to bug me all day until I remember what I heard.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Originally Posted by rostasi

Good guess, Rod, but no, it wasn't Simpson, this was more... expressive than Simpson's (which I just listened to on Amazon). Not as expressive as Henske, of course (not even counting her completely crazed and hilarious introduction). I don't know. I'm not even sure if I have it or, more likely, heard it on the radio.

[Sherman]

Originally Posted by Root Doctor

The blues isn't about originality, it's about putting your own stamp on something familiar.

I don't know much about Bob Dylan, but I know Blues. You just nailed it, Mr. Root Doctor

[Jon Abbey]

yeah, of course that's true, but his seem to just make me want to hear the originals, I may even have to dust off that Allman Brothers record.

NP: Bob Dylan's 115th Dream

"I went to get some help
I walked by a Guernsey cow
Who directed me down
To the Bowery slums
Where people carried signs around
Saying, "Ban the bums"
I jumped right into line
Sayin', "I hope that I'm not late"
When I realized I hadn't eaten
For five days straight"