Tim Berne

Vince Kargatis · July-14th-2003, 06:09 PM

Placeholder for discussion of Tim Berne and his music.

I don't need that much reason to create a thread on my single favorite musician, but this will do in any case - his website has undergone a revamp, and features two mp3s from an upcoming Science Friction band live double cd (plus samples from several other albums, if you're behind the times and need to listen). Plus they're offering scores now:

Screwgun Records.

shrugs · July-15th-2003, 10:25 AM

I am going to be spinning cd's more in the next month(an easy 15 hours a week on my turtable cartridge is adding up fast) and will have to pull out my Berne stuff. I especially love Paraphrase:Visitation Rites. I dig Berne( and V. Golia) on the bari a lot.

Root Doctor · July-15th-2003, 10:33 AM

What can anyone tell me about Berne's Spectres? I notice that Olu Dara and VT's James Harvey are sidemen.

al j · July-15th-2003, 10:34 AM

Great timing, Vince. I've been reacquainting myself with the Unwound and Empires boxes over the last four days. Really digging his baritone playing and, for whatever reason, Jim Black is sticking out like never before in the Bloodcount group. Fantastic stuff.

The one thing I like about Berne is that he doesn't at all sound like any of his few claimed "influences."

Joe Milazzo recently wrapped up an interview with Tim. The text of will be available at Bagatellen in the future.

Vince Kargatis · July-15th-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Root Doctor
What can anyone tell me about Berne's Spectres? I notice that Olu Dara and VT's James Harvey are sidemen.

I'll tell ya what you need to know: it's part of the Empire box, 5 cds for $30(!) from Screwgun, certainly essential for any Berne fan, or anyone interested in his early years and development. (It's good music too). 30 bucks! Get it.

Root Doctor · July-15th-2003, 10:53 AM

I'm sold. Thanks.

hearsay · July-15th-2003, 12:01 PM

Thanks for the tip Vince, I love that group. They put on a great performance earlier this year at the Knit. His "acoustic hard cell" is billed at Tonic this week, sounds interesting.

Captain Hate · July-16th-2003, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Root Doctor
What can anyone tell me about Berne's Spectres? I notice that Olu Dara and VT's James Harvey are sidemen.

This was the first Berne I ever bought (back in the vinyl days) and I was very impressed with it. Olu Dara is very good on it; in contrast to what I think about his recent "work". Although I liked this a lot and it has a lot of quality playing on it, the first Berne that really turned my head inside out was Fulton Street Maul.

Jason Bivins · July-16th-2003, 10:40 PM

I don't have *quite* the Berne jones that my man Kargatron does, but I'm close. The first one I heard - right when it came out - was the Hemphill tribute "Diminutive Mysteries" (which was also my intro to the great Marc Ducret).

I'd definitely plunge into the Empire Box. And then get the rest.

brain · July-17th-2003, 09:02 PM

did anyone see Tim at the 55 Bar last night with Hard Cell (Taborn and Rainey) or is anyone going to the Acoustic Hard Cell tonight? i'm about 2000 miles away and can't go so a report would be greatly appreciated.

the new screwgun website looks amazing with new MP3s and scores to buy, etc.

hearsay · July-18th-2003, 12:13 AM

I saw them at the 55 bar last night, it was a nice show, but not as good as the Science Friction band that I saw at the Knit a few months ago. Taborn has some new computer stuff that he's doing, and he sounded great. I didn't think they were as tight as before, it seemed like they were messing up some of the tunes, but then again maybe they were purposefully playing with them. It wasn't a bad show by a long shot, and for $7 it can't be beat.

Gordon B · July-18th-2003, 07:57 AM

Where can I buy Science Friction? I've had a difficult time locating it.

Vince Kargatis · July-18th-2003, 08:15 AM

Direct from Screwgun is a guaranteed source, and maximizes our man's profits. Cadence lists it too.

Chris Castelle · July-18th-2003, 12:48 PM

I was at the acoustic show at Tonic...it's funny how Brett mentions them "messing up" tunes during the 55 Bar show, since Taborn and Rainey actually launched into the wrong composition during the opening number. Apparently the confusion had to do with a cryptic titling system that Berne uses, which he tried, not too successfully, to explain to the audience.

I was particularly interested in hearing Taborn tackle this material at the acoustic piano; before his partnership with Berne began, I could never have imagined any keyboard instrument, let alone a piano, fit in with Berne's sound, but Craig managed it brilliantly last night, playing very sparse and often quiet passages. He took off a bit during the last number, not sounding much like anyone else, as much a reflection of Taborn's originality as of his pioneer status in incorporating a piano into Tim Berne's music.

Berne himself sounded a bit more bludgeoning than usual, which wasn't especially appropriate for the unusually delicate acoustic setting, but he was full of ideas as usual and debuted a number of new compositions, all of which succeeded in sounding so thoroughly Berne-ish that I thought that he might be recycling older material, but then went in unexpectd directions that reassured me that this was not the case.

Rainey executed what are undoubtly some pretty skewed rhythms with the inspiration and efficiency all Berne fans have come to expect from him. All in all, a good set but not nearly the best I've heard from Berne.

The Paraphrase trio, with Rainey and Drew Gress, has a couple of dates coming up at Sweet Rhythm, the old Sweet Basil, an unexpected venue considering that I don't think that Sweet Basil would ever have booked Berne, and the new club is supposed to be less jazz-oriented. Hopefully, Tim will break out the baritone sax with this group...I haven't seen him play it in over two years.

Gordon B · July-18th-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince Kargatis
Direct from Screwgun is a guaranteed source, and maximizes our man's profits. Cadence lists it too.

Thanks, Vince. I just ordered it from Screwgun.

Vince Kargatis · July-18th-2003, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Castelle
Apparently the confusion had to do with a cryptic titling system that Berne uses, which he tried, not too successfully, to explain to the audience.

Chris, can you expound on this? I've never heard Tim ramble about titles live, though on record, his titles' relationships to re-worked/modified compositions has often been interesting (sometimes relating to label changes and their requirements for "new compositions" - an old trick). Are you referring simply to some system of working titles he uses to keep track in live situations?

Thanks for the review.

Tangentially: some retitling (which, admittedly, probably involved compositional re-working, too) Tim's done in the past on records, off the top of my head:
Sirius B -> Blue Alpha
San Antonio -> Betsy
Preview -> Miniature
a theme from Eye Contact -> part of Quicksand

shrugs · July-18th-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Castelle
The Paraphrase trio, with Rainey and Drew Gress, has a couple of dates coming up at Sweet Rhythm, the old Sweet Basil, an unexpected venue considering that I don't think that Sweet Basil would ever have booked Berne, and the new club is supposed to be less jazz-oriented. Hopefully, Tim will break out the baritone sax with this group...I haven't seen him play it in over two years.

I see one gig is on Aug 14th. I am there!! I have never seen Paraphrase and this is a must before I leave.

brain · July-18th-2003, 05:23 PM

thanks for the reviews guys! sounds cool...did you happen to see the Susie Ibarra gig before Tim or the Assif/Maneri/Black thing afterwards?

Chris Castelle · July-18th-2003, 06:47 PM

Vince--as far as I can figure out, it goes something like this: There are two compositions that are part of the Berne songbook that are listed as "Mistake # 1" and "Mistake # 2." One of these is the unrecorded piece Van Gundy's Retreat, which I had previously heard with the Sciene Friction band in March. Apparently, the titles that Berne came up with for the two "mistakes" aren't listed in the book of compositions that Taborn and Rainey read from. So, I figure what happened is that Berne called for the set to open with Van Gundy's Retreat, which is listed as, say, Mistake # 1 (though I'm not sure which mistake it really is) and Taborn and Rainey launched into Mistake # 2. Tim burst out laughing almost immediately and told the audience that he just *had* to tell them what was so funny--the result was not entirely coherent, so I'm sure I don't exactly have all the facts straight. Upon reflection, the entire situation seemed totally reflective of Berne's way of thinking, even if these kinds of bandstand outbursts are rare for him.

al j · August-11th-2003, 04:37 PM

Tim Berne Interview

Reid · August-11th-2003, 04:49 PM

I haven't really gotten into him so far, but I thought *The Shell Game* was a solid album. I think it's one of the most successful M-base recordings I've heard. I know it wasn't technically an M-base album, but the music--with the odd-metered avant-funk--reminded me of M-Base.

I'm curious about the disc with Marc Ducret that came out last year. I think it was called the Sevens. I know there's one with a string section and one with just a quartet. I want to hear the quartet album. I know Walter really loved both. Please share any comments about either.

August-11th-2003, 05:48 PM

Hey, Vince! I'm glad to hear that you are also a Berne fan. When you get back to DC, maybe we can work on trying to get Tim to visit us sometimes down here.

John

Chris Castelle · August-11th-2003, 06:24 PM

There's no Berne album with a string section that I know of; I don't think that one actually exists. The Sevens has a classical saxophone quartet on two tracks, one a through-composed piece by Berne and the other joined by Berne and Mar Ducret. The quartet album is called Science Friction.They are both distinguished by the guitar/electronics/producer contributions of David Torn, as well as particularly meticulous sense of attention to structural detail (even for Berne!) on Berne's own part. They are both available at screwgunrecords.com and you should get them both.

walto · August-11th-2003, 06:32 PM

Berne fans may be interested to know that there's a new interview with Tim by JC's own Joe Milazzo that just went up over at bagatellen.com.

Vince Kargatis · August-11th-2003, 06:36 PM

I love this line from the interview, referring to working with Herb Robertson: "The stuff I’m doing now is not very conducive to the trumpet unless you travel with a dentist." Ha!

John L, Transparent presented Paraphrase back in '99 or so - I'll certainly work hard to grab Tim next time he's on the domestic road. For one-off concerts, he'd need more money than a regular tour stopover, I think.

Reid, you should really try to hear, particularly, Fractured Fairy Tales and Pace Yourself, big stepping stones in Berne's music, I think. Despite the appearance of odd-metered funk, I can't imagine grouping Berne within M-BASE, but we've gone over this non-overlapping ground before...

Chris, of course, FFT is almost a string section recording, what with Mark Dresser, Hank Roberts, and Mark Feldman...

Uli · August-11th-2003, 07:06 PM

Entertaining interview, Joe. Love it, Tim Berne seems to be so down to earth.

Rob C · May-4th-2004, 12:46 PM

Up, because I've become a big fan of Berne in the past year or so, since I first heard Science Friction. I've since acquired:

Fulton Street Maul
Sanctified Dreams
Miniature
Nice View
Lowlife, the Paris Concert
The Shell Game
The Sublime And. (my favorite so far)

...and the occasion for upping this thread is that I just placed an order for The Empire Box.

I've heard that the Bloodcount stuff on Screwgun is a lot rawer than the JMT stuff. I have to admit, while I like Lowlife okay, I'm not that into it. Too many long "quiet" stretches for me (I grew up on MTV so I need constant stimulation). But I'm definitely thinking of getting the "Bloodcount Pack" he has on his website--5 discs for $40, cheap!

And what about Big Satan's "Honey I Think They Liked It"? I see Amazon has a few copies.

Finally, when is he coming to Chicago?

jaka · May-4th-2004, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

I've heard that the Bloodcount stuff on Screwgun is a lot rawer than the JMT stuff. I have to admit, while I like Lowlife okay, I'm not that into it. Too many long "quiet" stretches for me (I grew up on MTV so I need constant stimulation). But I'm definitely thinking of getting the "Bloodcount Pack" he has on his website--5 discs for $40, cheap!

And what about Big Satan's "Honey I Think They Liked It"? I see Amazon has a few copies.

Rob,

You should definitely get the "Bloodcount pack". I love the JMTs (hey, they were recorded in one of my favorite Paris venues...), but it's true that the Screwgun ones are more "straight to the point" (if you can say that of 30 minutes long tracks...). However, the Screwgun ones don't have Ducret on them. Not a problem, but it's to be considered if you like him.

Big Satan's "I think they liked it honey" is to me the best Tim Berne/Marc Ducret collaboration ever. Not to imply at all that Tom Rainey is not part of the quality of the recording. He is too for sure. This trio stuff is simply INCREDIBLE. Run and get it. You shouldn't be disappointed.
And good news, Thirsty Ear Records will release a new Big Satan recording in September (small clips are available at Tim Berne's site). Aargh, still 4 months to wait...

Squaredancecalling Steve · May-4th-2004, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

And what about Big Satan's "Honey I Think They Liked It"? I see Amazon has a few copies.

Grab one! I'm with Jaka -- it's a great one!

Another great one that I haven't seen mentioned here is the duet album with cellist Hank Roberts, "Cause & Reflect" -- one of my favorites.

jaka · May-4th-2004, 03:01 PM

Thanks for the support, Steve.

I think nobody mentioned "Open, Coma", a double-CD release on Screwgun.
It's Tim Berne along with the Copenhagen Art Ensemble, Herb Robertson and Marc Ducret (as the sleeve states it) and it's AMAZING.
For lengthy Berne's tracks lovers. 2 CDs, 4 tracks.
Wonderful atmosphere and developments. A must to me.
What do you think?