God Poll- Baylor Religion Survey

[Gordon B]

The Gallup organization polled 1,721 respondents for Baylor University. The respondents identified four distinct visions of God. The article will be in tomorrow's Baltimore Sun. I couldn't find an online version so typed everything in below. What's your vision of God?

Authoritarian God (31.4%). God is highly involved in our daily lives and world affairs. This God is quite angry and capable of punishing the unfaithful.

Benevolent God (23%). God is active in our daily lives but less likely to be angry. This God is mainly a force of positive influence in the world and less willing to condemn or punish.

Critical God (16%). God really does not interact with the world. God does observe and views the current state of the world unfavorably. God's displeasure will be felt in another life and divine justice may not be of this world.

Distant God (24.4%). God is not active in the world and especially angry either. Believers tend to think about God as a cosmic force which set the laws of nature in motion. God does not "do" things in the world and does not hold clear opinions about our activities.

Atheist (5.2%).

[Monte Smith]

There's no "don't know?" I swear to God, the discrimination against agnostics never stops.

[Scott Dolan]

Agreed.

[Monte Smith]

Quoth Monty Python on the CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION album:

(Sound: Church bells, lots of them, ringing.)

Man: I wish those bloody bells would stop.

Wife: Oh, it's quite nice dear, it's Sunday, it's the church.

M: What about us atheists? Why should we 'ave to listen to that sectarian turmoil?

W: You're a lapsed atheist, dear.

M: The principle's the same. The Mohmedans don't come 'round here wavin' bells at us! We don't get Buddhists playing bagpipes in our bathroom! Or Hindus harmonizing in the hall! The Shintus don't come here shattering sheet glass in the shithouse, shouting slogans-

W: All right, don't practice your alliteration on me.

M: Anyway, when I membership card and blazer badge back from the League of Agnostics, I shall urge the executive to lodge a protest against that religious racket! Pass the butter knife!

W: WHAT??

M: PASS THE BUTTER KNIFE!! (pause) THANK YOU! IF ONLY WE HAD SOME KIND OF MISSILE!

W: 'OLD ON, I'LL CLOSE THE WINDOW.

M: WHAT?!

W: I SAID, I'LL CLOSE THE WINDOW!

(Sound: Window closing, bells get faint, but are still there)

M: If only we had some kind of missile, we could take the steam out of those bells.

W: Well, you could always use the number 14-St. Joseph-the-somewhat- divine-on-the-hill ballistic missile. It's in the attic.

M: What ballistic missile would this be, then? (Sound: Bells begin to get increasingly louder)

W: I made it for you, it's your birthday present!

M: Just what I wanted, 'ow nice of you to remember, my pet. 'ERE!

W: WHAT?

M: THOSE BELLS ARE GETTING LOUDER!

W: WHAT?

M: THOSE BELLS ARE GETTING LOUDER!!

W: THE BELLS ARE GETTING LOUDER! OOOH, LOOK!

M: WHAT?

W: THE CHURCH, IT.. ITS COMING CLOSER! ITS COMING DOWN THE 'ILL!

M: WHAT A LIBERTY!

W: ITS TURNING INTO OUR LANE! WELL, YOU BETTER GO PUT IT OUT OF IT'S MISERY.

M: WHERE'S THIS MISSILE, THEN?

W: IT'S IN THE ATTIC. PRESS THE BUTTON MARKED CHURCH!

M: 'OW DO I AIM IT?

W: IT AUTOMATICALLY HOMES IN ON THE NEAREST PLACE OF WORSHIP!

M: BUT THAT'S ST. MARKS!

W: IT ISN'T NOW, LOOK!! OH, ITS OP'NING THE GATE.

M: WHAT? USE THE MEGAPHONE!

W: IT'S OP'NING THE GATE!! 'HURRY UP, ITS TRAMPLING OVER THE AZALIAS! (Sound: Missle launch, explosion, bells diminish)

M: Did I 'it it?

W: Yes, right up the aisle.

M: Well I've always said, There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he really doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

The limitations of Gallup Polls have never been clearer.

Today I would characterize my position by saying that while an interactive spiritual relationship with The Universe is possible, God Himself has not yet been born.

[Gordon B]

How's this.

If you think there's >50% chance of no God, answer "no God." If you think there's >50% chance of there being a God, answer with the God you think is the most likely one.

I can't believe that many people think the likelihood of God is precisely 50% but if that's you, then don't answer the poll.

[Scott Dolan]

Hater!

[Sergio Zamora]

GOD is anti-sex and anti-wiretapping.

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Authoritarian God (31.4%). God is highly involved in our daily lives and world affairs. This God is quite angry and capable of punishing the unfaithful.

Benevolent God (23%). God is active in our daily lives but less likely to be angry. This God is mainly a force of positive influence in the world and less willing to condemn or punish.

Critical God (16%). God really does not interact with the world. God does observe and views the current state of the world unfavorably. God's displeasure will be felt in another life and divine justice may not be of this world.

Notably absent is this tenet of major religions: that a Deity is angered by some kinds of behavior and pleased by others--and that the Deity punishes and rewards us accordingly (whether now or later).

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Athiest (5.2%).

Why is it so often atheists who misspell "atheist"?

[Tom Storer]

He meant it as a superlative--athy, athier, athiest.

[Frisco]

God is a concept
by which we measure our pain.......

I just believe in me
Yoko and Me
and that's reality

(Lennon/Plastic Ono Band)

[crawjo]

I think there's a greater than 50 percent chance of there being a force in the universe which one might call "God," although I think that term implies a personhood that almost certainly doesn't exist. I definitely do not think that God punishes people; people punish themselves.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by bluenoter

Notably absent is this tenet of major religions: that a Deity is angered by some kinds of behavior and pleased by others--and that the Deity punishes and rewards us accordingly (whether now or later).

"Accordingly"? I suppose you'd pick a through c?

[Vince Kargatis]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

If you think there's >50% chance of no God, answer "no God." If you think there's >50% chance of there being a God, answer with the God you think is the most likely one.

I can't believe that many people think the likelihood of God is precisely 50% but if that's you, then don't answer the poll.

Hm, I would say anyone who is <50% 'god', and above one in a godzillion, to feel free to bitch about the poll, as long as they explain their probability estimate and compare it to their guesses about the probability of centaurs existing.

Why in the world would you choose 50% here, Gordon? As if that were the default choice??

[Dr Dave]

No God: 88.4%

'Nuff said.

[Noj]

50/50 is exactly how I see it. There's no proof either way.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Vince Kargatis

Hm, I would say anyone who is <50% 'god', and above one in a godzillion, to feel free to bitch about the poll, as long as they explain their probability estimate and compare it to their guesses about the probability of centaurs existing.

Why in the world would you choose 50% here, Gordon? As if that were the default choice??

Vince, I have no problem with agnostic being a choice but it wasn't in this poll, which I faithfully (no pun intended) reproduced.

According to Wiki, the term "agnostic" was coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869 whereas atheism dates back to the 16th century.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Part of the problem is that you're asking a $5 question of a species with a 25 cent brain.

[Vince Kargatis]

Originally Posted by Noj

50/50 is exactly how I see it. There's no proof either way.

I agree there's no "proof", though I can't see the relevance of that observation. Still curious how you get 50/50, or define the "ways" of possible outcomes. Let me suppose there could be any number of gods, numbering from zero to infinity. Running with that, I'll guess that the probability of just 1 god is 1/N as N -> inifinity, or, zero chance. Why is your estimate better than that?

Both "calculations" are nonsense, of course.

[sonic1]

There is no agnostic choice there. And since I, and fucking everyone here, is amnesiatic (is that a word Brian?) regarding life before or after mortality, it is futile to guess. It is literally trying to understand something for which no evidence exists, no observable traits can be observed, and yet coming up with conclusions about what you cannot observe.

None of us know, and none of us will know until we are dead. And that might not even get us there.

[Vince Kargatis]

Bottom line is that if you lack belief in a god or gods, and that applies to almost all self-described 'agnostics' I've heard of, you can be legitimately described an atheist (of some stripe). Agnosticism itself is defined in a way that even makes it orthogonal to the theism question - positing unknowability doesn't require a specific statement on belief. The term's mostly misused, imo, chiefly to escape the perceived social stigma of the term "atheist".

Rocks are atheist.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

No God: 88.4%

'Nuff said.

This poll is just a cultural marker. Without knowing anything at all about the respondents, a person looking at the results of this poll could reasonably guess that the participants are Western (European and American) secularists and rationalists. I point this out only because of the attitude, sometimes displayed here but also in many other places, that the belief in no God is somehow the rational, normative choice, and that anyone who takes a different view is, at best, esoteric, and at worst, a moron. In the American and European context this sort of attitude, which ranges from agnosticism to atheism to anti-theism, makes some sense, but in other parts of the world it would look quite foolish.

If the above paragraph seems to suggest that I'm a cultural relativist, well, that's because I am. Religion is a wonderful thing because it tells us a great deal about different cultures. Indeed, a world without religion is impossible for me to imagine, in part because people gravitate towards religiousity even when they claim to be running away from it.

I also think that the discussion in this part of the world gets poisoned by the nature of Western Christianity, which has become extremely lax in its adherence, while yet retaining an astounding level of self-righteousness and hypocrisy. I like to think that it would be much easier to take Christianity seriously if one lived in the time of St. Francis of Assisi, as compared to the modern mega-church.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Living with uncertainty is very uncomfortable for most people. Faith answers that, provides that certainty, relieves people of their discomfort. Religion isn't "wrong", it satisfies an almost universal need to be sure that the world makes sense in some way. For most people, whatever religion may lack in documentable metaphysics it more than makes up for in the emotional and often social support it provides. Living with uncertainty may be the most intellectually honest approach, but it's not one that most people are prepared to embrace.

[Gary Sisco]

Answering the question, for believers, is rather like saying there are several Gods, one of which you believe in.

Which is of course how the concept of "one god" began. It was one of many.

But if there are many ...

[walto]

Which sort of life on other planets to you believe in? Pick one:

1. Organisms with big brains and cone-shaped heads who want to take over the universe.

2. Friendly, wise organisms who will help us stop killing each other.

3. Blob thingies that can absorb humans, but mean us no harm.

4. Unfamiliar single-celled organisms.

5. There is no life anywhere else in the universe.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Vince Kargatis

Bottom line is that if you lack belief in a god or gods, and that applies to almost all self-described 'agnostics' I've heard of, you can be legitimately described an atheist (of some stripe). Agnosticism itself is defined in a way that even makes it orthogonal to the theism question - positing unknowability doesn't require a specific statement on belief. The term's mostly misused, imo, chiefly to escape the perceived social stigma of the term "atheist".

Rocks are atheist.

Very well stated. I agree with you 100%.

[walto]

This poll is just a cultural marker.

Something can be a cultural marker without being "just" a cultural marker. Why people believe this or that is a different issue from what they believe.

If the above paragraph seems to suggest that I'm a cultural relativist, well, that's because I am.

Just a couple of days ago you made posts on another thread indicating your endorsement of individual (rather than cultural) relativism with respect to language. Cultural relativism suggests that one's culture (not oneself) determines the meaning of, e.g., "jazz."

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

Living with uncertainty is very uncomfortable for most people. Faith answers that, provides that certainty, relieves people of their discomfort. Religion isn't "wrong", it satisfies an almost universal need to be sure that the world makes sense in some way. For most people, whatever religion may lack in documentable metaphysics it more than makes up for in the emotional and often social support it provides. Living with uncertainty may be the most intellectually honest approach, but it's not one that most people are prepared to embrace.

Very well put. It isn't just uncertainty that makes people uncomfortable, it's the notion of randomness. It's more intuitive for human beings to think that things happen for a reason, rather than purely by chance.

[walto]

Gordon, I'm waiting for you to respond to my analogous poll in post #25.

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Vince Kargatis

Bottom line is that if you lack belief in a god or gods, and that applies to almost all self-described 'agnostics' I've heard of, you can be legitimately described an atheist (of some stripe). Agnosticism itself is defined in a way that even makes it orthogonal to the theism question - positing unknowability doesn't require a specific statement on belief. The term's mostly misused, imo, chiefly to escape the perceived social stigma of the term "atheist".

Rocks are atheist.

Okay, help me with this one, Vince. Often I will hear atheists laugh at the idea of a God or criticize and deride belief - they KNOW there isn't one. Whereas I might agree with sonic1: that you can't know. But I am willing to respect people's choice to believe without trampling on or laughing at them.

So, yeah, why would I (or should I) be lumped in with people who KNOW there isn't a God? I think that is as arrogant as anything else. Unless the atheists are irritated by agnostics and seek to force them into their own fold.