Will the Draft be reinstated?

[Coda]

If we look back to the beginning of the war, Charles Rangel (about to become the House Ways and Means committee leader) started talk about re instituting the draft. He submitted bills that were all shot down by the Republican controlled congress. In February of this year he said that every day that the military option remains on the table and that the requirements of continued war in Iraq would necessitate a draft.

John Murtha, perhaps the next House Majority leader was also a leading supporter of the draft legislation.

In June of this year Senator Kerry put forth a bill to disengage in Iraq. Only 6 democrats voted for withdrawl which makes me believe that we're not going anywhere soon. Nancy Pelosi said that we can expect fighting in Afganastan to increase: "The war against terrorism is in Afghanistan, and unless the President makes winning that war an immediate priority, the risks to the security of the United States will continue to grow.”

It will be interesting to see, now that they control Congress, if they will bring this back for further discussion and a vote.

[Noj]

Nothing will turn the public against the war faster than reinstating the draft. We'll have swaths of rich mothers going from Republican to Cindy Sheehan in a heartbeat.

[lynn]

Understaffed in the theater of war, over extended tours of duty. Do you actually believe the last crew had it right?

Are you of draftable age? I haven't yet seen any of the hawkish posters here volunteer for duty. Whose duty is it to fight this war? Maybe those so supportive of it?

I do know we need our national guard back in their real world jobs. They have had to fight longer tours than anybody did in Vietnam who didn't volunteer for extra tours.

[Coda]

Lynn, the last crew is gone. We have new leadership that put forth measures to reinstate the draft. I'm reading articles that suggest that this new leadership is not going to pull us out of Iraq immediately. Surely this initial push for a draft was not a political ploy but based exactly on what you state in your post - that our reserves need to get back to their state side jobs.

As I see it based on the recent past and changes in our government that we can either get out now or institute a draft. I don't think the argument has changed any from the past year - what has changed is that those who did call for the draft are now in a position to carry through on their wishes.

Will they continue to call for this draft or not?

[lynn]

Republicans should have called for the draft. That was my point. But the last "crew" as a whole, were spineless.

[walto]

The particular guys who've been calling for it probably still will--but it isn't a plank in the Dem. platform, and I don't see it becoming one. Also, as somebody said above, if the plan is to reinstate mandatory conscription so we can continue to fight in Iraq, it's not such a good plan, since bringing back the draft would likely have the result of getting us out of Iraq pretty quickly.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by lynn

Republicans should have called for the draft. That was my point. But the last "crew" as a whole, were spineless.

How many times did Democrats start false rumors that Bush planned to re-institute the draft?

Plenty of times.

The answer to Coda's question is "No." There is not majority support for a military draft.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

How many times did Democrats start false rumors that Bush planned to re-institute the draft?

I think Goody started crying about it at least five times on this board.

[walto]

So, naturally it makes perfect sense for Coda to start doing the same thing....

[lynn]

I didn't say anything about rumors. I said that if those idiots had been serious about their "war" they would have initiated the draft in order to have enough boots on the ground to win. Period.

[Noj]

Does anyone really want to win this war? If the draft is necessary to win the war then we should have a draft. Otherwise, we're wasting time and lives over there. If the war is necessary, then win it at all costs! Quit farting around.

[Scott Dolan]

We can send 50,000 more troops over there via the draft if we want to. It still won't solve anything. It's hard to compete from thousands of miles away with Iran and Syria who are next door neighbors.

[crawjo]

Only 20 percent of Americans support sending more troops to Iraq. Higher percentages support total withdrawal or phased withdrawal. If the Democrats wish to lose control of Congress in 2008, the surest way would be to push for a draft.

Given the political realities, I think the best option at this point might be to redeploy to the Kurdish areas of Iraq. I think the Sunnis are probably fucked.

[lynn]

As it seems, it was never these peoples intentions to win any war. Just make a lot of money looking like they tried. Wag the Dog.


And may I say, some of you people are beginning too sound down right liberal!

[rollhead]

Coda is just afraid that they'd send his chickenshit Republican ass to Iraq.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Only 20 percent of Americans support sending more troops to Iraq. Higher percentages support total withdrawal or phased withdrawal. If the Democrats wish to lose control of Congress in 2008, the surest way would be to push for a draft.

Given the political realities, I think the best option at this point might be to redeploy to the Kurdish areas of Iraq. I think the Sunnis are probably fucked.

Who knows? They may be useful there for fighting Turkish troops in the near future.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by rollhead

Coda is just afraid that they'd send his chickenshit Republican ass to Iraq.

He's still deeply entrenched in the war in the Commons, I'm telling you. Don't disparage one of the troops, Mr. Head.

Just this morning he single-handedly took out a group of pinko hippie fags attempting to read poetry.

He's currently hunkered down on the roof of Park Street station.

Watching.

Waiting.

It's a fucking war out there, rollie.

[jeff54]

Originally Posted by Noj

Nothing will turn the public against the war faster than reinstating the draft. We'll have swaths of rich mothers going from Republican to Cindy Sheehan in a heartbeat.

Not to mention politians who have children of draftable age. Starting with Bush's daughters.

[Scott Dolan]

Would they draft broads?

[lynn]

Why Not? Plenty of desk jobs they can fill to free up the the manly men to fill the front lines.

[Sandi22]

After believing the "end of history" arrived, lots and lots of kids with not very great prospects of making a good wage joined up for regular military service, , the National Guard, and all ages joined the reserves because of benefits they were promised. Since this war with everyone being blown to bits in their convoys and on patrols, being shot at by an enemy hunkered down with civilians; who in their right mind would want to volunteer again to be sent off to fight another war in a far off place? And for what? Another trumped up falsehood? Another war which makes no sense?

If we are to have a viable military force, one just to protect ourselves if the need were to arise, then it will take a draft, but it will take more forthright men running the country to make sure military forces aren't sent off to a war which is only a power seeking, line their pockets endeavor. A strong military is important, so is diplomacy, the saber rattling type of politician needs to step back and keep it down. We've let them know how we feel about this by our election results. I hope they have learned how it needs to be.

A volunteer army after this fiasco is going to be hard to come by. A draft might be necessary after all, as there was no good that came out of this; this trumped up war in Iraq. There were volunteers after the New York, Twin Towers attack, men and women willing to die for what they believed to be a just and good cause, willing to put their lives on the line to protect us here at home. The administration turned their calling into something else all together, they turned it into a war with no good outcome in sight, a war without a good calling. Who wants to be blown up and shot at for such as this? I believe that it will be harder than ever to have a viable strong military after what has come down regarding Iraq. The draft may be a necessity. I don't like the thought, but it very well could be.

[lynn]

All sarcasm aside, there is no easy solution to this, and certainly no funny one. Who knows how long this will take. The whole region is falling apart do to our interference in Iraq.

[Captain Hate]

Originally Posted by lynn

The whole region is falling apart do to our interference in Iraq.

Nice one, dean's list.

[Gary Sisco]

There will never be a draft again in the US so long as the Vietnam-aged generation is in power. Ever.

Even if there should be, in my longheld position (all of my adult life) that I will never abandon.

It will never happen here again during my lifetime, if only because there's a government full of draftdodgers, now.

[Sandi22]

It's me usually doing the typo, gramatical errors, dumb punctuation, etc. But everyone still gets the drift, or I hope they do. Sometimes when I get interrupted, I'll leave out whole trains of thought, whole sentences, or half sentences. There's telephone calls, instant messages, someone here, so things just go unoticed till a bit later, I'll sometimes try to go about fixing it, and other times, I just let it go. Deans list? That'll never be me.

[Noj]

What happened to the good sense which stopped us short of invading Iraq during the Kuwait intervention? All the current consequences were easily foreseeable.

After 9/11, invading Afghanistan was the right move, but half-assing it was stupid. We should have gone all out, got that scumbag Osama, and got out lickety split. That's it, that's all. A quick flexing of the muscles and we're out. Launching a full-scale attempt to "change the Middle East" with this barely-assisted Iraq War, knowing full well it couldn't be accomplished in 8 years, was as myopic and ill-advised as it gets.

However, what's done is done. Now we need to come out on top somehow. If military might is not the key to success, then it must be diplomacy. The entire approach needs to be changed. We must bring calm to the region and get leaders to the table to discuss a plan of action. We must help foster peace in the region instead of continuing to exacerbate the situation with a violent approach. Put the guns down if they're not doing any good.

Otherwise, finish the war militarily. Kill as many who resist our will as necessary. Wipe them out. Kill 'em all. Hell, that's what war is. We want to win, right? C'mon war supporters. Where's all that chatter about how Democrats don't want America to win? OK, let's win. KILL KILL KILL!

[Gary Sisco]

Not only foreseeable but publicly, worldwide, discussed, debated, refuted, and etc.

No one in this government went into this war blindly and no one can honestly claim any lack of good intelligence or anything of the sort. They wanted a war and they got one. Now they don't know what to do with it because they are still as stupid as they were then and they aren't going to get any smarter. Rumsfeld in particular had the nerve to say while "resigning" that the problem with the war is that it's too complex "for people to understand."

No, it's not.

It's too simple for his retarded ass to understand.

Come out on top, shit. You can't just switch gears and say Oh we're going to go diplomatic now. The war is on and it will stay on, US or no US, until the Iraqis settle their hash. It matters not a single bit what any American, in power or out, has to say about or think about it. It's a lot easier to start a war than end one.

The only thing that's over is neoconism in power. Their day is done, thank all goodness, and they'll now be shunted off to revile and attack each other in journals only they read, for the rest of their lives, and they are welcome to it. Fucking repugnofascists. They deserve their permanent obscurity and a whole lot more that they'll never get. Unfortunately.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by lynn

I didn't say anything about rumors. I said that if those idiots had been serious about their "war" they would have initiated the draft in order to have enough boots on the ground to win. Period.

Lynn, I never expected you to be a Rumsfeld apologist but that's how your statement comes across.

He's been much criticized for not committing enough troops to Iraq but not you're implying it wasn't his fault because there were no more troops to commit except via a military draft.

That's certainly a novel argument, and not true, either.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by Noj

What happened to the good sense which stopped us short of invading Iraq during the Kuwait intervention?

But when this current war started most of you whined that Daddy Bush should have "finished the job" back in the first Gulf War.

[Sandi22]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

There will never be a draft again in the US so long as the Vietnam-aged generation is in power. Ever.

Even if there should be, in my longheld position (all of my adult life) that I will never abandon.

It will never happen here again during my lifetime, if only because there's a government full of draftdodgers, now.

I hope you're right about this.

I know that when someone was shot up and injured in other wars or conflicts, they were sent home, and not called back up as they are doing now. People with amputated legs are now serving, an unheard of occurance in our other wars.

One of the fellows who they are saying shot Pat Tillman had just had laser surgery on his eyes. His vision was blurred. Out on maneuvers with blurred vision! These occurances seems to speak of a manpower shortage, and it will need to be reinforced at one time or another in the future. I know they're offering incentives, if it's enough to insure a steady influx of manpower, we'll know soon enough.