Wynton wrestles with the forces of history

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

All right, everybody to a neutral corner and listen up! This is not going to degenerate into a Wynton we Love/Hate you thread! Right?!

This is thread intended to develop some of the ideas from the "Jazz and Resistance unite for Palestine" thread, on the dynamics between music (and art in general) and politics.

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Marsalis: Politics Influenced New Album
By NEKESA MUMBI MOODY
The Associated Press
Friday, December 1, 2006; 4:39 PM


NEW YORK -- On Wynton Marsalis' upcoming CD, he criticizes political leadership in America, cultural corruption, and sex and violence in rap _ and that's just on one song. "I don't speak from outside, I'm not finger-pointing," the 45-year-old jazz great told The Associated Press in a recent interview.

"I'm a part of it, I'm speaking from inside of our culture," Marsalis said. "We're not taking a moralistic view. It's not, `Let me tell y'all how I'm different from you.' It's a comment on our way of life and our culture."

"From the Plantation to the Penitentiary" is due out March 6. Marsalis calls it his most political album in years.

"It's been in my mind for a while. Every decade I like to do one piece that has that kind of social involvement with American culture," he said.

But a look at some of the lyrics shows Marsalis is disenchanted with that culture. "The Return of Romance" appears to take rappers to task, accusing them of being modern-day minstrels with "song-less tunes"; "Super Capitalism" chastises those obsessed with materialistic goals; and "Where Y'all At," among other things, criticizes '60s radicals and idealists who have lost their revolutionary slant.

"Where Y'all At" is notable because it features Marsalis as the vocalist, delivering a sort of rap chant.

"I always try and do something different. I don't try to make any of my records the same," he said. "I'm always singing and chanting all over my house. I grew up doing it in New Orleans, chanting and singing and making up rhymes; long before there was rap music we were doing that. That's the New Orleans' way."

Though the album has its pointed moments, Marsalis isn't completely pessimistic about American culture. He noted the outpouring of support from citizens nationwide after Hurricane Katrina as an example of what people can do when they are aware of a problem.

"That's the one thing the Katrina episode taught us about America. Americans can be moved to do things when they have good information, honest information. People are more serious, people do want to participate in things," he said.

[Uli]

It's on my to get list alredy, Square!

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

And since there's so much meat in the other thread:

http://www.jazzcornertalk.com/speake...ad.php?t=18311

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

And since there's so much meat in the other thread:

It's not the meat, it's the emotion.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

And since there's so much meat in the other thread.....

... one would expect Mr. Paul B. to weigh in and of course all the other suspects. I sure hope this will not into just be another Winnie thread.

[graypencil]

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

"I'm always singing and chanting all over my house. I grew up doing it in New Orleans, chanting and singing and making up rhymes; long before there was rap music we were doing that. That's the New Orleans' way."

Is that news? It's pretty common knowledge that rap grew out of long-standing, pervasive African diaspora oral traditions.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

"Where Y'all At," among other things, criticizes '60s radicals and idealists who have lost their revolutionary slant.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by graypencil

the arrangers best friend is his pencil .. ( E.K.Ellington )

I'll betcha Duke didn't leave out the apostrophe.

"The wastebasket is a writer's best friend."
- Isaac Bashevis Singer

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by Pete C

It's not the meat, it's the emotion.

e-hahahahaha!!!

[John P. Cooper]

All of this assumes that anyone cares about his 'views'.

"From the Plantation to the Penitentiary" - sounds like a pretty desparate attempt to appeal to some type of audience in order replace another type of audience which he may be losing or has already lost.

I don't know enough about WM. Does this album represent growth of some sort? Or simply self-indulgence?

Or is it on the Crouch label?

[Gary Sisco]

What Crouch label?

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

What Crouch label?

The hypothetical one?

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Pete C

It's not the meat, it's the emotion.

No it IS the meat; the HOT meat.

I'm suprised at Crouchynton always bringing up the vulgarity of Hip Hop. It's like they've never been exposed to early blues or jazz recordings, not to mention hillbilly music from the same era. There's enough death, destruction, pathology, sex, booze and drugs in those songs to make you wonder about our modern day scolds, Marstanley being two among many. Their concern may be honest but ignores the fact that there's nothing new in any of this.

[Mike Schwartz]

I got excited ther for a second....I thought this was previewing an upcoming WWE pay for view

[shrugs]

I'd like to see him come home and wrestle with Ray Nagin.

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by shrugs

I'd like to see him come home and wrestle with Ray Nagin.

Naked.

[Jon Abbey]

and not actually see it, just know that it happened.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Th thread title, BTW, was from a comment by Norman Mailer (circa Armies of the Night) in which he said he didn't think of artists or entertainers as being great men, that a great man was somebody who was wrestling with the forces of history.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

he said he didn't think of artists or entertainers as being great men, that a great man was somebody who was wrestling with the forces of history.

I sometimes have trouble getting out of the house in the morning. Does that count?

[chuckyd4]

This should be a pretty big event. I mean, most of American culture has been waiting for a long time to hear Wynton's decadely weighing in on it.

Whadda ponce.