Does anyone here still believe that Bush is a competent president?

[steve(thelil)]

I'm not asking whether you agree with his ideology or world view. It appears from what I'm reading, that even leading neocons who loved him for his world view believe that the lack of competence displayed in the Iraq mess has set back their cause by decades.

[Jon Abbey]

did anyone here ever believe that?

[Paul B]

He's incompetent. Or as the Rude Pundit says, a "degraded man, not so much a president anymore as a dalmatian, bred to be a proud-haunched firefighter mascot but merely capable of licking his own anus instead of actually saving anyone from an inferno."

[Uli]

To answer the question, Gordon and Monte come to mind.

[walto]

Certainly Willy. Maybe also Coda and Vibes.

[stonemonkts]

I recall Monte saying he liked him, way back in his first term (probably post 9/11). I suspect his opinion has taken a southerly turn since, but he can certainly pipe up for himself.

[crawjo]

Competent at what?

[Uli]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Competent at what?

Being President, I assumed.

[lynn]

Anyone see the video of his Dad crying at the farewell soiree for the other son? I'm sure he wishes Jeb was President too.

Criminally incompetent would be more the correct term. Stupidity is no excuse for his actions in office.

[graypencil]

Without piling on the "I tolja so" group ..

I *KNEW* he was incompetant when he ran for CIC the first time ( from observing the mindless havoc he wreaked upon Texas for 6 years close up )

However, I had NO idea just how totally incompetant
and dangerous he would become to the entire USA.

*He embroiled us in an ongoing unnecessary war with what have been proven to be outright lies to congress ..

* He succeeding in alienating what allies we had with his swaggering, pugnacious, "my way or the highway" non-diplomacy..

* Economically, he's created a toxically bloated national debt that our great-great-great grandchildren will still be paying off ..

He is to my mind by FAR the absolute worst president in history ..

[Monte Smith]

I like him just fine when he isn't talking or looking into anyone's soul. I still like him better than the alternatives offered in 2000 and 2004.

[rollhead]

Incompetence is the least of his problems.

He's been a complete disaster for this county.

We went from a widely admired nation, to one that is widely hated.

We went from a surplus to a deficit.

We went from being leaders in science to a nation reviled for denying the existance of a knowable reality.

We went from a nation that at the very least gave lip service to the notion of a commonwealth -- to a nation where "commonwealth" is increasingly uncommon.

We went from being a "one nation" interested in "liberty and justice for all" to a entity that serves only corporations, which have no allegiance to the United States or any other "one nation."

While Bush didn't start this trend, he is the icing on the cake.. the maraschino cherry -- for what "conservatism" in this country is all about.

[Al in NYC]

Wasn't he hand-picked by the Republicans specifically for his incompetence? Easier to control and use that way...

For real breathtaking incompetence you really have to look at the ghouls behind the zombie.

[Sandi22]

Originally Posted by lynn

Anyone see the video of his Dad crying at the farewell soiree for the other son? I'm sure he wishes Jeb was President too.

Criminally incompetent would be more the correct term. Stupidity is no excuse for his actions in office.

Sure did.

Does anyone remember how it was said by Gerald Ford that Dick Cheney ruined everthing he ever touched? Well he, GHW Bush was probably in tears over his, Dick Cheney's ruining GW's reputation. I don't think GW Bush ever had an original thought, he just went along with whatever crazy convoluted Neo Con scheme being floated by him, thereby, ruining what looked like a "Slam Dunk" for Jeb in his inheriting the presidency. "Would of, Could of, Should of" tears don't you think?

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Uli

Being President, I assumed.

Well, he somehow managed to get reelected, so he must have some competence for something.

[walto]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Well, he somehow managed to get reelected, so he must have some competence for something.

Yeah, but he had considerable help.

[steve(thelil)]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Well, he somehow managed to get reelected, so he must have some competence for something.

So are you saying you consider him a competent president? Are you saying that anyone who gets reelected must be a competent president?

[steve(thelil)]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

I like him just fine when he isn't talking or looking into anyone's soul. I still like him better than the alternatives offered in 2000 and 2004.

Are you saying you consider him competent as a President? As someone who supported the Iraq war, are you suggesting that the Iraq situation was handled by Bush and his folks in a competent matter? Or are you merely saying you like him because, competence aside, he shares your world view?

I think Bush appeals to people like Monte whose self-image is defined to a great extent by who or what their against.

[Gary Sisco]

No. I never thought he was in the first place and he's done nothing but confirm my thoughts ever since.

[steve(thelil)]

I think Bush's political success is based in part that he appeals to people whose self-image is defined to a great extent by who or what they're against:


-The stem-cell policy may slow the fight against deadly diseases, but at least it's a defeat of the evil abortion lovers.

-Allowing same-sex marriage couldn't conceivably hurt any traditional marriages / families, but being against same-sex marriage is at least a way to be proudly anti-gay.

-Pro Immigration policies might help the economy run more smoothly, but being anti-immigration at least lets one feel good about disliking Mexicans and Arabs and whoever else.


If the Iraq mess teaches people anything (and it probably won't) I hope that it's that policies designed to show how strongly one is AGAINST something don't necessarily solve or improve a single fucking thing. Invading Iraq, -while originally feeling so RIGHT to those whose political self-identity is based on the fact that WE MUST SHOW HOW MUCH WE really, really hate terrorists - has increased the amount of the terrorist threat.

There are people who can't give up on the horribly ineffective Iraq strategy because they can never admit that being bigger and stronger and unwilling to yield doesn't always get you everything you want. It was so much easier in the glory days when simply killing alot more of them than they did us meant winning.

-putting out the fire with gasoline, baby

[patricia]

Thank you steve[thelil]. I can't stop thinking that this is what happens when that dim-bulb but rich kid, and we all knew at least one, who never had to be responsible for his cruel pranks and tom-foolery is given a job in which his word is the final word and he screws up.
Most of those kids never were given high-prestige jobs that held thousands of people's lives in their hands, or had the entire public tax purse at their disposal. At least there's that. There's only one George W Bush.

Now, all that remains is that John McCain may pick up the Bush baton and dig the country even deeper into trouble, globally, should he be elected President in '08.
So, happy happy, joy, joy.

But, my answer to the thread question...........NO. NO. A THOUSAND TIMES NO.
Anyone who has read my posts since '00 will attest to the fact that I always thought George W Bush was a dim bulb. I just didn't realize how dangerous a dim bulb he would become.

[Gary Sisco]

His political success was used up two years ago. The most recent elections were not exactly a success. People of his own party went out of their ways not to mention his name.

The repugs are going to end up in a place where the bulk of their support is confined to the South.

I'd say thank goodness and good riddance if I wasn't equally opposed to the dims.

[Gary Sisco]

McCain has a long, long way to go before he's president of the U.S. A *long* way to go.

Thing is, he's really blown it, already. He had a shot in the run-up to 2000 when he could have appealed to large numbers of independents (myself included) without whom neither he nor anyone can be elected, the way things stand, with either party's loyalist base amounting to no more than one third of the voting population. But he's blown that since by revealing his utter opportunism and wind-testing. He's another American politician with no principles but plenty of ambition. Very few are anything else today.

Neither party has any claim to principle today. The dims haven't even an identity apart from not being repugs. The repugs have no principles at all, as has been clearly revealed by their performance when the completely dominant party. Even their own are abandoning ship.

[Gary Sisco]

Never mind domestic policy.

Enormous, historically unprecedented in history -- not just American history, history -- deficits. Hey, why not behave like the rest of his generation? Can't afford it? Fuck it. Borrow now, someone else will pay later, hey. And it won't be any of his own doing the paying, not only because of his tax cuts idiotically granted at the same time as historical spending, if only because they own the debt and its interest.

What, him worry?

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by steve(thelil)

So are you saying you consider him a competent president? Are you saying that anyone who gets reelected must be a competent president?

No, I'm just saying that getting reelected takes some degree of competence, however minimal. Part of it is having the right opponent, part of it is having the right advisors, part of it is luck, but part of it must be some degree of competence. I mean, I thought a politician's first job was to get himself elected. Bush has done that. He's managed to appeal to a group of voters that did not support his father. Whatever you and I may think of those voters, that takes competence.

[Sandi22]

It takes Ohio, etc.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Well, he somehow managed to get reelected, so he must have some competence for something.

Originally Posted by steve(thelil)

So are you saying you consider him a competent president? Are you saying that anyone who gets reelected must be a competent president?

Originally Posted by crawjo

No, I'm just saying that getting reelected takes some degree of competence, however minimal. Part of it is having the right opponent, part of it is having the right advisors, part of it is luck, but part of it must be some degree of competence. I mean, I thought a politician's first job was to get himself elected. Bush has done that. He's managed to appeal to a group of voters that did not support his father. Whatever you and I may think of those voters, that takes competence.

Sorry, but that does not answer the thread question.

The thread question only asks about Dubbya's competency as president, not his ability to get elected or re-elected.

Where's the confusion? Seems like a pretty simple, straightforward question to me.

[hglord]

There appears to be some confusion about the difference between "competence" and "skill." Bush has some skill - mostly at appearing to be a guy with whom one might want to share a beer. That helped him get elected.

He is not and never was competent at being a president. He doesn't ask good or even competent questions; he doesn't care about the people of the country, only his wealthy buddies; he doesn't lead, only follows. And the people he chooses to follow are even worse than he is.

[Al in NYC]

Originally Posted by hglord

There appears to be some confusion about the difference between "competence" and "skill." Bush has some skill - mostly at appearing to be a guy with whom one might want to share a beer. That helped him get elected.

Do you really think so? I can't think of a person I'd less like to share a beer with than some dumbass upper-class twit pretend Texas hick who has skated through life on his daddy's name and reputation. But maybe that's just me.

[Gary Sisco]

A cowboy'd drink whiskey anyway.