Catholic Ritualogy

tippy · February-21st-2007, 02:20 PM

so what are the ashes on the forehead for. Ashes from what and what does having them on your forehead mean?

groover · February-21st-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tippy

so what are the ashes on the forehead for. Ashes from what and what does having them on your forehead mean?

You tripped and hit your head against a coal scuttle?

tippy · February-21st-2007, 02:23 PM

LOL what in the heck is a scuttle?

Chris D · February-21st-2007, 02:24 PM

"Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return."

groover · February-21st-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tippy

LOL what in the heck is a scuttle?

The little shovel that people used to use for coal heaters.

Enforcer · February-21st-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tippy

LOL what in the heck is a scuttle?

It's a type of fish. What the hell were you thinking, anyway?

tippy · February-21st-2007, 02:27 PM

that is terrifying, Larry, and does not belong in the house.

so the ashes are a threat then aren't they - something tangible that your priest smudges on your head "be good or else"?

Chris D · February-21st-2007, 02:28 PM

What I quoted above is what the priest says. The ashes are from palm leaves from the previous year's Palm Sunday.

tippy · February-21st-2007, 02:29 PM

what do the palms symbolize and why did they get burnt up?

patricia · February-21st-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris D

"Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return."

That quote is classic. The ashes on the forhead on Ash Wednesday are to remind us that we are transitory and will die, returning to dust, with only our immortal souls surviving. [Yes. I am a Catholic.]

The palm leaves are to commemorate Jesus' triumphant entry to the city in which the people put palm fronds in his path to honour him.
I'm not quite sure what the connection is between the palm fronds from the Palm Sunday ritual and their being burned, as opposed to something else, to provide the ashes.
I was probably told, but have forgotten.
I do know that the dry palmleaves that everybody is given on Palm Sunday are not burned by the parisheners, but usually tucked behind the crucifix[s] around the house.
The significance of that escapes me, but where else would one put them?

Enforcer · February-21st-2007, 02:34 PM

Yeah, luckily we have Ash Wednesday to remind us we're going to die. Because people would never think about that otherwise. It's not like people we know have died, or we're worried about our health, our insurance, how our families will cope, making out wills and planning funerals. So it's good to have Ash Wednesday, since we don't have any of those things, so we can remember we're all going to fucking die.

Because I almost forgot I'm fucking going to die one day. Yeah, so it's cool.

tippy · February-21st-2007, 02:36 PM

What is the meaning behind the feast of Mardi Gras?

patricia · February-21st-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tippy

What is the meaning behind the feast of Mardi Gras?

Everybody pigs out and parties in preparation for Lent.
Lent is the period between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday, when everybody sacrifices some personal pleasure and fasts. It's the big blowout before the period of sacrifice and prayer.
Fat Tuesday, or Mardi Gras just is the last day before that 40 day sacrifice period, which is the period of time in which Jesus was alone in the desert, fasting and praying, according to the Bible.

And Larry, we all know we're going to die. The point is the health of the soul, which is believed to survive forever.

groover · February-21st-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

Yeah, luckily we have Ash Wednesday to remind us we're going to die. Because people would never think about that otherwise. It's not like people we know have died, or we're worried about our health, our insurance, how our families will cope, making out wills and planning funerals. So it's good to have Ash Wednesday, since we don't have any of those things, so we can remember we're all going to fucking die.

Because I almost forgot I'm fucking going to die one day. Yeah, so it's cool.

Yeah, but, if you were a helpless child being molested regularly by a Catholic priest, you might take comfort in the promise of death.

patricia · February-21st-2007, 02:48 PM

So, I guess we can assume that Larry and Groover won't be paying much attention, from a religious standpoint, to either Ash Wednesday, or Easter.
But, some do. There is still freedom of religion in your country, isn't there?

Bringing up the terrible crimes with which some religious figures have been charged and convicted reflects the state of everybody, morally, not just Catholics.
Those kinds of crimes are not just committed by Catholics. Would it were so.

tippy · February-21st-2007, 02:49 PM

!!!!!

Patricia and Chris, thanks. I wasn't trying to invite mockery. I was thinking about it at lunch and while I know of Lent and Jesus' fast I was just trying to come up with the meaning of the individual symbols which I thought I should know more about than I do.

groover · February-21st-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patricia

Bringing up the terrible crimes with which some religious figures have been charged and convicted reflects the state of everybody, morally, not just Catholics.
Those kinds of crimes are not just committed by Catholics. Would it were so.

Though doesn't it seem that the incidence of pederasty among Catholic priests is higher than in the general population? Meaning no offense, it's just the facts, which aren't pretty.

patricia · February-21st-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tippy

!!!!!

Patricia and Chris, thanks. I wasn't trying to invite mockery. I was thinking about it at lunch and while I know of Lent and Jesus' fast I was just trying to come up with the meaning of the individual symbols which I thought I should know more about than I do.

You're welcome. Don't feel bad. I'm Catholic and I don't remember the origins of a lot of the liturgy, or the rituals. They become almost habits and few really think about why they were originally done.
..................................
And Groover, I think that you will find that the incidents of pederasty may very well be higher among a group who are cloistered and celebate.
Prisons have a similar effect on men's sexuality.
But, child molesting is certainly not restricted to priests, or to the Catholic Church, although there has been a disproportianate amount of attention paid to priests.
You might want to examine statistics on other groups in which adults have access to young people, with no other supervision.
The molestors go where the potential victims are.
Schools, sports groups, playgrounds etc.
You might want to check out stats on scoutmasters, teachers, coaches and other group leaders who seek out those activities and professions.
Where there are vulnerable kids, there are potential molestors and most of them look no different than you do.
The only difference seems to be that they pay attention to kids when others don't in order to gain their trust.

tippy · February-21st-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groover

Though doesn't it seem that the incidence of pederasty among Catholic priests is higher than in the general population? Meaning no offense, it's just the facts.

Oh I don't believe that for a second. I think the molestation rate - how to verify right - has been given in the past as 1 in 4 children. At the time I heard it, I believe they were speaking specifically of girls.

groover · February-21st-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patricia

So, I guess we can assume that Larry and Groover won't be paying much attention, from a religious standpoint, to either Ash Wednesday, or Easter.
But, some do. There is still freedom of religion in your country, isn't there?

Can't speak for Larry, but my answers are yes and yes.

patricia · February-21st-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groover

Can't speak for Larry, but my answers are yes and yes.

Ah. Well then...

rollhead · February-21st-2007, 03:39 PM

jazzy mary · February-21st-2007, 04:12 PM

Thanks, Patricia! I'm Catholic as well. I guess I'm a fall away--I didn't do the ashes bit today--instead I had lunch w/ my boyfriend and made out w/ him like crazy in my office. With Andrew Hill's "Black Fire" in the background. Things are slow here today too--and I knew all that stuff but it was nice to have it all spelled out.

tippy · February-21st-2007, 04:22 PM

Mary, that is totally hot and better than get schmutz on your forehead.

jazzy mary · February-21st-2007, 04:23 PM

Yeah, it was nice. Sigh....

Enforcer · February-21st-2007, 04:59 PM

Hey, I was born into a Catholic family. I have no problem with Ash Wednesday. But damned if I'm not going to take every opportunity to mock something just for fun.

patricia · February-21st-2007, 05:49 PM

I'm no expert in Catholocism, but I did grow up one and raised my kids Catholic.
I guess the members of my parish pray for me as a fallen-away member as well.
I am still haunted by the motal sin-ness of missing mass, the same as if I had killed somebody.

Perhaps Larry can tell us if missing mass on Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation is still a mortal, straight-to-Hell-if I die sin, before I go to confession, offence?

steve(thelil) · February-21st-2007, 05:55 PM

Is there any religious reason that Mardi Gras not on the official list of days that alternate side parking rules are suspended in New York, even though alternate side parking rules were, in fact suspended? Is it part of the whole God works in mysterious ways thing?

steve(thelil) · February-21st-2007, 05:57 PM

Was Liberace's palimony plaintiff Scott Thorson Catholic, and if so, is there a day this week that their relationship is commemorated?

bluenoter · February-21st-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tippy

I was thinking about it at lunch and while I know of Lent and Jesus' fast I was just trying to come up with the meaning of the individual symbols which I thought I should know more about than I do.

Lent article at Wikipedia.org

Ash Wednesday/Lent FAQs at Beliefnet.com

. . . and abundant other info. at those two sites. (I'm sure that the posters in this thread are doing a great job, but the internets are our friend!)