Anthony Braxton - 4 Compositions

walto · July-29th-2003, 04:12 PM

I'm talking about "4 Compositons GTM (2000)." Nate gives it high praise in the new "Cadence," and I'm wondering if anybody else has any comments.

Thanx.

Squaredancecalling Steve · July-29th-2003, 04:17 PM

Very Braxtonian title, Walter! (I personally would have put a number in, after the equals sign.)

Dan G · July-29th-2003, 04:20 PM

It didn't blow me away on first listen (and maybe I shouldn't speak up before a second listen, but...)

I am not that familiar with the GTM music, but question whether this is the ideal setting for it. I like the horn duos and trios, and the large ensembles (and the stuff with the Bay area guys on Rastascan), but to me this one seemed like a local club band hired to play with a touring artist, and not having a clue they'd be given a lot of music to read. Braxton is playing over and around them, more than with them. And I can't help but compare any Braxton quartet to the one with Hemingway/Dresser/Crispell.

I'll give it another listen soon, and hopefully I will have a more positive reaction.

shrugs · July-29th-2003, 04:23 PM

look at the Anthony Braxton group at Yahoo. It was discussed in detail in April. Most people seem to say this is so-so.

Sergio Zamora · July-29th-2003, 04:38 PM

There was a thread in RR, which I think got deleted when all those other threads and posts got deleted by mistake.

In short, I really dig it. I'm too lazy to remember all I said, or to come up with any more original thoughts, or to even think, but I remember that it I liked that it had a lot of *classic quartet influences to it. Almost like a classic quartet meets GTM. I think Nate disagreed with my comparing the piano guy Uehlinger to Crispell, which in retrospect I can see as being a bit of an exaggeration - but I do see some resemblance.

*Brax, Crispell, Dresser, Hemingway (of course)

LeMo · July-29th-2003, 05:56 PM

Couldn't get in any Braxton's GTM until this one.
To my ear, more freedom & improvisation here than in any other GTM records..
I even listen to others Ghost Trance Music now BECAUSE of "Four Compositions (GTM) 2000".

Nate Dorward · July-29th-2003, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan G
...to me this one seemed like a local club band hired to play with a touring artist, and not having a clue they'd be given a lot of music to read.

No: all the players in the band are former students of Braxton: it's not a pickup band. If memory serves, they were introduced to one piece ahead of time, & three of the pieces were introduced to them in the studio. But they were already quite familiar with negotiating Braxton's compositions before this.

There's a good review up on the Squid's Ear site by Brian Olewnick: it's worth a look too (here).

Incidentally, am I right to surmise that the pianist must be related to Werner Uehlinger, the owner of Hat Art? It can't be too common a name, surely?

shrugs · July-29th-2003, 06:51 PM

the Uehlinger connection was mentioned at the yahoo group. Werner denies it.
I am wondering if this was the same pianist I caught with Brax a few years ago. He was great but the drummer was AWFUL. I can't remember their names though. I just closed my eyes and tuned into the Brax. That tone is heavenly.

Brian Olewnick · July-29th-2003, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nate Dorward
There's a good review up on the Squid's Ear site by Brian Olewnick: it's worth a look too (here).

Thanks Nate. I knew I wrote it up somewhere and I couldn't find it!

[Walt, I see I used the term "gnarly" so you know it must be right up your alley!]

walto · July-29th-2003, 09:11 PM

Thanx folks. I read today the a half-hearted semi-praise in STN. I'll read Brian's piece next.

walto · July-30th-2003, 06:52 AM

Very nice review, Brian.

Nate Dorward · July-30th-2003, 07:52 AM

There's also a rather tepid review in The Wire a few issues back. FWIW, though it could have been more carefully written (it had a few errors--misspelled the name of one of the musicians & if I remember rightly it confused two different tracks). I forget who wrote it (I'm not at home at the moment to check my backissues).

michaelr · July-30th-2003, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan G
... And I can't help but compare any Braxton quartet to the one with Hemingway/Dresser/Crispell.

I think there is a growing difference between Braxton's conceptual approach to music now and in the past. Previously, he put together longer standing ensembles that developed a collective approach to his compositional forms (Wheeler/Holland/Altschul or Crispell/Hemingway/Dresser). In these groups, each member was relatively mature in their own development and used that as a basis for their inroad to Braxton's music. Since the introduction of the Ghost Trance pieces, Braxton has instead been cultivating a revolving pool of musicians who have a growing familiarity with the compositional strategies. But most of them are still very much working out their own musical development.

It will be interesting to see at this point whether Braxton chooses to put together a long-standing, working group like any of those in the past.

Rob C · January-14th-2006, 06:19 PM

I just got this, the first example of Ghost Trane I've heard. I gather that this is a little different than most GTM records? It doesn't sound that far off from his earlier quartet work to me. I have to admit, I'm definitely biased towards more typical jazz instrumentation, as on this disc, as opposed to solo sax, horn duos, etc., as have constituted so many of Braxton's releases.

Anyway, I've been kind of put off by everything I've read about GTM. It sounded too forbidding for me. But I love this record, and in fact think this is one of the more accessible records I've ever heard from Braxton.

LeMo · January-14th-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

I just got this, the first example of Ghost Trane I've heard.

An intersting "lapsus" here.

Nate Dorward · January-14th-2006, 09:44 PM

Yeah, it's not too typical of the other GTM discs I've heard (but I don't have any of the Braxton House releases, which seem now to be out of print). I like this one a lot. Anyone heard any of Kevin Uehlinger's other work? I was talking to Harris Eisenstadt who plays in his trio--Harris had high praise for K.U.'s Newsonic disc.

Rob C · January-14th-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMo

An intersting "lapsus" here.

Wha--indeed!

Rob C · January-14th-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Dorward

Yeah, it's not too typical of the other GTM discs I've heard (but I don't have any of the Braxton House releases, which seem now to be out of print). I like this one a lot. Anyone heard any of Kevin Uehlinger's other work? I was talking to Harris Eisenstadt who plays in his trio--Harris had high praise for K.U.'s Newsonic disc.

I'd never heard of any of these guys, but they make a good band here, I think.

Sergio Zamora · January-14th-2006, 11:26 PM

At the time, this was a more advanced and developed form of GTM in which Braxton has worked out a lot of the earlier kinks which made the earlier GTM recordings perhaps not as satisfying. Of course, this was recorded five years ago and Braxton supposedly is in another phase of GTM now.

LeMo · January-15th-2006, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

Of course, this was recorded five years ago and Braxton supposedly is in another phase of GTM now.

If he is at all in GTM.

Nate Dorward · January-15th-2006, 10:07 AM

Yeah, I think it's "Falling Water" music now or something else....

Sergio Zamora · January-15th-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Dorward

Yeah, I think it's "Falling Water" music now or something else....

Well, my understanding is the disc he did with Bauder was part of his Falling Rivers thing, but I also recall reading a review for another cd which said he was in the third phase of GTM, so no idea if one is older than the other or these are parallel paths he is exploring at the same time.

Not that I know what Falling Rivers means anyway.

Dan G · January-16th-2006, 11:03 AM

I think the earlier Ghost Trance music was more rigid in sticking to the rhythms and patterns, with less space for people to stretch out. I have a few of the Braxton House releases, and based on those and the small ensemble recordings on Leo (the ones with just horns, or bagpipes), this is my impression.

By the time of the Yoshi's material (on Leo), things seemed to have loosened up a bit. For the recordings a couple of years later, with John Shiurba, Gino Robair, et al on Rastascan (the 4 disc set) it sounds like many of those rules had completely fallen by the wayside, at least for those sessions. I think the Delmark session fits in somewhere between these last two approaches.

Not sure what the new approach is. I think it is supposed to be an off-shoot of GTM, but whether that means going back to the original concept or continuing the evolution, I don't know. I've never really seen Braxton's comments on this, just other people's speculation.

As to the album under discussion here, it's grown on me somewhat since my original comment a year and a half ago, but probably still not in my top 1/3 of Braxton records.

walto · October-19th-2006, 10:02 AM

I (finally) just ordered the Rastascan set from Overstock (for $27.95). It's on you, Dan.

Dan G · October-19th-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walto

I (finally) just ordered the Rastascan set from Overstock (for $27.95). It's on you, Dan.

I'm not worried that you won't like it, as long as you don't dislike, in general, Shiurba, Robair, et al. More than with most of the GTM albums, which to me seem very rigidly under Braxton's control, they manage to put their own stamp on it. Sort of GTM meets EFI.

I've recently had some of the Braxton House discs, particulary the 4tet and 6tet discs, in heavy rotation, and have really noticed how great Joe Fonda is. He's the anchor on those, working those repetitive motifs for everything he can find, always doing something really cool.

And in the 3 + years since my comments way up this thread about the 4 Comps GTM 2000 disc, I've grown to like it more.

walto · October-19th-2006, 12:07 PM

I just put a Tournemire avatar up, but I'm thinking of changing to this one:

I like its Sisyphusan aspect. Kind of like life....

Clay Fink · October-19th-2006, 01:13 PM

I was at the Library of Congress gig of GTM that made it onto some of the Braxton House disks. I was pretty underwhelmed by the GTM from the second set. The first set was a wind ensemble playing a composed piece, a smaller group doing a more "traditional" Braxton work and a god-awful piano/violin duet.

I regret never having seen Braxton in a better situation. I'm still kicking myself for missing a duet with George Lewis in '87 or so at the old DC Space.