40 Years of Rolling Stone

[Mingus]

good issue. pick it up.

George McGovern
You have a doctorate in history. Give me your unvarnished take, as a historian, on the legacy of George W. Bush.

He's easily the worst president in American history. I don't think that's exaggeration at all. Nobody has put us into such a god awful mess as this one. Nobody. ...

What do you think motivates him? Is he just incompetent, or is he an ideologue?

Both. He's terriby incompetent in managing the ship of state. He doesn't know where to begin - Karl Rove and Dick Cheney are calling the shots. I don't think he has a glimmer of reality on the big issues before the country: global warming, the escalating arms race, the war, the environment, education. He's a disaster. I didn't feel that way about his dad. Before his dad went into the first Gulf War, he took the time to get the approval of the entire United Nations and key leaders in the military and the national security apparatus. Just about everybody was on board. Even then, he gave Saddam Hussein an ultimatum: Either get your army out of there or we're going to hit. He even told him the day.

So you'd prefer to have Nixon in the White House?

Of course. Nixon knew what he was doing. He was dishoest and defined the Constitution to suit himself in various places. He deserved to be impeached, but not as much as this gang. But the mood is different now. Bush was re-elected even after people knew what he was like.

How did he pull that off?

Bush and Cheney are very skillful in using fear. Nixon used to say, "People don't vote on faith, they vote on fear." People didn't vote for Bush and Cheney in the faith that they were the kind of men who would stand up against dishonesty and deceit. They voted for them because these guys scared the hell out of them. They just lie and twist everything. Goering once said it's the easiest thing in the world to get a nation in war - you just make up a story and wave the banner of fear. The public falls in line, you can do what you want.

[Mingus]

here's another one:

Bill Moyers

But aren't we living in a very dark time for religion - the rise of fundamentalism, not just here, but all over the world?

...The current effort of Christian fundamentalists to turn the government into their agent is a sinister development. I'm doing a story for my new weekly series on PBS about the fact that Pat Robertson's Regent University has 150 graduates serving in the executive branch. No university has ever had that many graduates at one time in the government. Their mission is to turn the government into an agent of the church. They want to return us to the days of coercion.

...why so many journalists accepted the Bush administration's lies about the need to invade Iraq. Why wasn't the press there when we needed it?

...Third, for the first time in our history we have a wall-to-wall ideological right-wing press that not only mongered for war along with the administration but also mounted a slime machine to discredit any journalist who dared to stand against the official view of reality.

(Johnson vs Bush)

For all his consuming obsession with manipulating the press, Johnson would never say, as George Bush said, "I don't read the papers or watch television, because I get my information from unbiased sources." Johnson was anything but a virtuous man, but he was a damn good politician, and he wanted know what was being said about him and his policies. When I worked for Johnson, I realized that if you wanted to get his attention, you attacked him, Because he would spend more time trying to convert his eneimies than he would trying to satisfy his friends. That's how he was with the press. He raged and roared, saw them as the devil incarnate, but then he would turn around and -

Charm their pants off. And charm their pants off. That's not what Bush does. He's an ideologue who has a construct of the world that nothing can alter. He believes he sees no evil, hears no evil, speaks no evil, because he doesn't read the people who criticize him.

[Monte Smith]

Forty years? Seems so much longer.

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

Forty years? Seems so much longer.

just a short spin around the block.

[Dr Dave]

George W. Bush is a bad President? This is news?

[Mingus]

wanted to make sure it didn't slip past you... ;-)

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Mingus

wanted to make sure it didn't slip past you... ;-)

Well, thanks. I mean, if it turned out that he was actually right about something...that we're winning in Iraq, that New Orleans has recovered, that the healthcare mess is solved, that lower taxes on rich people stimulates the economy, that privatizing government functions saves money, that Saddam really did have all those nasty weapons, that U.S. attorneys were fired because of poor performance...

Damn, I can't even remember all his fuckups, there have been so many. But you know, we got to fight them terrists, so we got to support our President, come Hell or High Water. And we've had both, for damn sure.

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

... come Hell or High Water. And we've had both, for damn sure.

ter·ror·ist /ˈtɛrərɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ter-er-ist]
–noun

2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

By Definition, our current Administration.

[patricia]

The plan seems to be to keep on doing what they're doing, no matter how hare-brained each decision turns out to be.
To change course would be a sign of weakness.
George W knows all about being macho and battle-ready and what military strategy would be most effective because................oh wait a minute..........

[stonemonkts]

Arms race?

[cookie]

I picked this up today. Loved it. I think the last time I bought Rolling Stone, Jerry was on the cover. (Garcia of course)

[Gary Sisco]

Doc -- I agree with Bush, compared to a lot of others in power, about immigration, though I don't think he goes far enough. He has perhaps the most reasonable position being floated today. Hey, the law of averages and all that. Give a chimp a desk for long enough ....

I can't think of a single other thing, and I can't remember all of his fuck ups, either.

I can't say he's the worst in US history because I'm not studied up enough on the 19th C, which I'm sure had some historic losers, but I can say hands down that he's the worst pres of my lifetime (Eisenhower forward) and of modern US history.

[Dr Dave]

I'm sorry, I've gotten way off topic.

I read Rolling Stone religiously from about 1969 until about 1979, and then I never looked at it again. Looking back, it was an odd experience: For ten years, I lapped that shit up. Then one day it was like somebody threw a switch: It was suddenly stupid, irrelevant, embarrassing.

[Gary Sisco]

Pretty much.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Looking back, it was an odd experience: For ten years, I lapped that shit up.

That's the least odd experience imaginable. Isn't it called growing up? I mean there is an audience for Rolling Stone's authoritative take on pop music and popular culture and they are called teenagers.

[Gary Sisco]

I just look at the pictures.

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by stonemonkts

Arms race?

Sure. See Venezuala. See Iran.

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

That's the least odd experience imaginable. Isn't it called growing up? I mean there is an audience for Rolling Stone's authoritative take on pop music and popular culture and they are called teenagers.

Well, you see, Monte, I know I was kind of a late-bloomer and all, but even so, I stopped being a teenager, at least in the ordinal sense, in 1970 when I turned 20. I continued to read (and feed my inner teenager) for another nine years. And then....phhhhfffft.

(I just looked at the website. Are teenagers interested in John Mellencamp performing at Walter Reed?)

[Captain Hate]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

(I just looked at the website. Are teenagers interested in John Mellencamp performing at Walter Reed?)

Do you think teenagers do anything with Rolling Stone other than ignore it?

[rollhead]

Some great writers at that rag at one time:

The criticism of Robert Palmer and Lester Bangs.

It was Palmer's work at Rolling Stone that caused him to be hired as the first pop critic ever employed (in 1976) fulltime at The New York Times

The political writing of Timothy Crouse (Boys on the Bus), Hunter S. Thompson (Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail), was groundbreaking.

Howard Kohn and David Weir's story on the abduction of Patty Hearst was a masterpiece.

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Captain Hate

Do you think teenagers do anything with Rolling Stone other than ignore it?

I don't know any teenagers. Sad but true. Even my nieces and nephews are well into their twenties now.

[Al in NYC]

It always seems to me that Rolling Stone is aimed at a certain sort of aging boomer. The kind who can't let go of having been a teenager 30-40 years ago. It's like the perfect magazine for the California suburbs...

[Hudson Boy]

Originally Posted by rollhead

Some great writers at that rag at one time:
The criticism of Robert Palmer and Lester Bangs.
It was Palmer's work at Rolling Stone that caused him to be hired as the first pop critic ever employed (in 1976) fulltime at The New York Times
The political writing of Timothy Crouse (Boys on the Bus), Hunter S. Thompson (Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail), was groundbreaking.
Howard Kohn and David Weir's story on the abduction of Patty Hearst was a masterpiece.

Al Aronowitz had some good pieces in the the old days of RS, as well as many other writers that I can't remember offhand.

[Monte Smith]

I should have said adolescent, rather than teenager.

[Gary Sisco]

Doc, I'm catching up to you, rapidly. One's in 20s now, three more coming up fast. Two are out of the parents' house, already. I seem to have almost missed their teen years altogether. Only one of the three listens to rock music, and he, weirdly, to me, listens to what was popular when I was his age, which, to me, is kind of the same as if I'd been listening to Glen Miller or something as a teen. But he changes music as often as hairstyle, so it doesn't really say much, I guess, in the end.

[groover]

I always found William Greider's political essays interesting, but I let my subscription lapse in the mid '90's when I became more interested in older jazz than the music they cover.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Only one of the three listens to rock music, and he, weirdly, to me, listens to what was popular when I was his age, which, to me, is kind of the same as if I'd been listening to Glen Miller or something as a teen.

I think I remember mentioning here, when my youngest was thirteen, that she had discovered Edith Piaf on her own, as well as many of the American jazz artists who had made their home in Paris in the early twentieth century.

Looking back I think that the catalyst may have been her French teacher who inspired her students to explore not just the language, but the culture and history as well.
That teacher was recognized as the best foreign language teacher in CA at the time and Erin was lucky that she took a holistic approach.

Studying an historical period's art, literature and music is a great way to learn about another country's culture.
To just study a language, with no context, is IMO an almost sure way of never really being able to communicate with those who speak it as their first language.

[Gary Sisco]

What?

[julieswi]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Only one of the three listens to rock music, and he, weirdly, to me, listens to what was popular when I was his age, which, to me, is kind of the same as if I'd been listening to Glen Miller or something as a teen.

not all that unusual, i am surrounded by teenagers, and alot of them like "classic rock" but i do notice, only at a certain age, about 17-19
(none of them have evver heard of rolling stone magazine)

[Gary Sisco]

Jules -- Could well be. I don't spend enough time to talk about with teenagers anymore. The last one that adopted me is closer to 30 than he'll ever be to 20 again. I'm old enough to be their grandfather, in many cases.

I was telling Roots the other day that I actually get embarassed when I go to the local store, these days. I'm very far from a prude, but I'm unaccustomed as hell to half-naked 14 year old girls out in public, working the cash register. Makes me feel like a pedophile if I don't keep my eyes in the boat. Which gets increasingly harder to do. "I'm not supposed to be thinking what I'm thinking, here...." :-0