Does ECM remaster their reissues?

[riverrat]

Hi folks, new guy here. I think I recognize some posters here from the Organissimo board where I often lurk and sometimes post.

Given the high quality of the original masterings, I think I know the answer to this one, i.e. "no they don't".

But I thought I would ask the experts- does ECM remaster the recordings they reissue a second time on CD, e.g. the batch from 2000?

Thanks in advance!

[7/4]

Originally Posted by riverrat

Hi folks, new guy here. I think I recognize some posters here from the Organissimo board where I often lurk and sometimes post.

Given the high quality of the original masterings, I think I know the answer to this one, i.e. "no they don't".

But I thought I would ask the experts- does ECM remaster the recordings they reissue a second time on CD, e.g. the batch from 2000?

Thanks in advance!

don't think so...

[Ron Thorne]

Yes, ECM does remaster certain recordings. They have a series called Rarum which represents those efforts. The artists are involved in choosing which selected recordings are remastered.

Here's an example of some individual remastered compilations available from Amazon.



A complete series (8-12 CDs) are also available as boxed sets. At least 20 such CDs have been issued in two separate sets.



More information is available on the ECM website.

All 12 of the second series of Rarum discs, handsomely packaged in a box.
As the BBC Music Magazine said of the first Rarum releases: “Selected by
the artists themselves, this series is of enormous importance in revealing
the breadth of each artist’s work, as much for the converted as for the
unconverted looking for a window into the remarkable ECM catalogue.”

[riverrat]

Thanks for those details Ron.

I've seen the Rarum series but I don't own any of them- I usually prefer the original releases to compilations. But perhaps I will check one or two of these out.

I've been on an Igberto Gismonti binge lately- maybe I will pick up that one.

What can you tell me about the sound quality? Is there much of a difference between the remastered material and the original CD masters?

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by riverrat

What can you tell me about the sound quality? Is there much of a difference between the remastered material and the original CD masters?

I don't own any yet, so can't offer any comments from personal experience. However, I'm very interested in acquiring several of them, and am certain that they will be of stellar quality, with earlier recordings gaining the most from more current technology.

For your information, the artists are not limited to choosing albums for which they were the leader, so may choose any ECM recording(s) on which they appeared, making it very open-ended.

I think it's a wonderful concept, and look forward to adding several to my collection.

You may want to look at the artists represented in the first collection of 8-CDs, followed by those chosen for the 2nd series of 12-CDs.

Here's an example:



Album Description
Rarum Selected Recordings Vol 1-8 is a limited edition box collecting the first eight releases in Rarum, ECM's artist's choice anthology series. These are those by Keith Jarrett, Jan Garbarek, Chick Corea, Gary Burton, Bill Frisell, Art Ensemble Of Chicago, Terje Rypdal and Bobo Stenson. Each release is beautifully presented in a digipak with striking matt colours and includes archive photography, a personal statement by the musician and a discography. The anthologies have been remastered to 96khz/24-bit format. The Rarum project does not limit the musicians to selecting material from their own dates: They also have freedom to select recordings on which they appear as guests or sidemen. In following the series a sense of how bands were built--and reputations made--can be gained. Rarum is also a musical history lesson--the series will eventually expand to around 30 volumes, building up to a superlative library of jazz on ECM. In preparation for 2003 are sets by Pat Metheny, Dave Holland, Paul Motian, Carla Bley, John Surman, Tomasz Stanko, Eberhard Weber, Arild Andersen, Charles Lloyd, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette, John Abercrombie, Ralph Towner, Charlie Haden and others.

[Dennis Gonzalez]

If a recording was analog, then yes, it has to be remastered and reconfigured into digital format. I'd say the DDD recordings probably aren't, except for resequencing.

[riverrat]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gonzalez

If a recording was analog, then yes, it has to be remastered and reconfigured into digital format. I'd say the DDD recordings probably aren't, except for resequencing.

Thanks Dennis. Perhaps I could have been more clear in my original post. I understand that any session recorded prior to the digital/CD era must be remastered from analog into digital before it can be released on CD.

But many remasters from the early digital era are being "re-remastered" into 20-bit and now 24-bit (or 1-bit DSD) to provide better sound. Usually this means that the new remasters include more of the sonic details present in the original analog tapes than the earlier analog to digital transfers.

But as others have noted, just because a session is remastered in 24-bit doesn't guarantee it will sound better- a significant amount of skill and judgment are required on the part of the engineer to get a high quality remaster. Another complication (as I understand it) is that original session tapes continue to decline over time, so an older remaster made when the tapes were in better shape can sometimes sound better, even if it uses older technology. I would guess this is more of an issue with older stuff from the 50's and 60's (e.g. Blue Note) than most ECM session tapes.

I was curious if ECM did this in 2000 when they reissued a batch of earlier CDs. In other words, did they go back to the original tapes and "re-remaster" to take advantage of advances in digital technology that have occurred since these sessions that were first put out on CD in 1980's and early 1990's?

I now know the answer regarding the circa 2000 reissues is "no", but that "re-remasters" were done for the Rarum series.

I've heard it said that redbook CD playback technology is only now coming into its own, i.e. sounding good enough to approximate high quality vinyl played on a high quality system. This is a result of 1) better remasters, and 2) better CD players. Kind of ironic that we are still trying to get digital to sound like vinyl, and I'm sure many vinyl fans would maintain that CD playback isn't there yet. But it is getting closer, IMO.

[riverrat]

Pulling this thread up again to report something I just saw on the ECM site.

This appeared at the end of a description of a reissue of the Keith Jarrett Standards Trio's first sessions in 1983:

"With 24bit/192khz remastering from original analog sources by Manfred Eicher and Jan Erik Kongshaug, new liner notes and archive photos, “Setting Standards” also sets the stage for a new reissue series: ECM’24..."

Here's the LINK (Scroll down, its the last entry.)

Intriguing! I wonder what all the reissue series will consist of?

Labels such as Blue Note seem to have realized there is money to be made by re-releasing recordings in higher resolution. Some Blue Note sessions have been released on CD in at least 3 versions domestically, and many more if you count Japanese versions. I'm one of those who tends to seek out the best sounding versions. I'm often willing to replace recordings that I like a lot with the most recent remaster.

The newer Blue Note remasters do usually sound considerably better- CD technology has improved a lot in recent years. Also, the original Blue Note recordings often left something to be desired, even if they were state of the art for their time, so any improvement in sound is appreciated.

But at some point consumer exhaustion comes into play, and one tends to wonder if money spent "upgrading" a currently owned title might be better spent on new music. Given the already high quality of ECM recordings, especially compared to 50's and 60's era Blue Notes, it will be interesting to see how much better, if any, the 24-bit ECM remasters sound compared to the original CD versions...

(Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.)

[BrianL1]

Originally Posted by riverrat

But at some point consumer exhaustion comes into play, and one tends to wonder if money spent "upgrading" a currently owned title might be better spent on new music. Given the already high quality of ECM recordings, especially compared to 50's and 60's era Blue Notes, it will be interesting to see how much better, if any, the 24-bit ECM remasters sound compared to the original CD versions...

Of course maybe this would come in handy for some of those yet-to-be-released-on-CD titles.

[riverrat]

Very true, and also to the vast number of ECMs that I do not yet own, even though they are already out on CD....