FBI thwarts Islamic plot to blow up JFK

[Hudson Boy]

FBI thwarts Islamic plot to blow up JFK By Tim Shipman in Washington, Sunday Telegraph

A "chilling" Islamic terrorist plot to blow up New York's John F Kennedy Airport was thwarted yesterday. The plotters had hoped it would be more deadly than the 9/11 atrocities.

Four members of a "sleeper cell" intent on exploding fuel dumps to destroy the airport terminal buildings and aircraft on the ground, were arrested after an FBI surveillance operation lasting more than 16 months.

In conversations bugged by American officials, one of the plotters claimed the resulting explosion would have resulted in the destruction of "the whole of Kennedy". He predicted there would have been few survivors.

US Attorney Roslynn Mauskopf described the plans as "one of the most chilling plots imaginable". She added: "The devastation that would have been caused if this had succeeded are unthinkable."

The plot came to light when Russell Defreitas, a former airport cargo worker described as "a very angry Muslim extremist", tried to recruit a fellow worker at the airport, who was working as an informant for the FBI.

In one intercepted telephone conversation, Defreitas said: " This can destroy the economy of America for some time."

The gang were caught after scouting out 10-inch wide jet fuel pipes which supplied the airport. Jet fuel itself is not particularly combustible but a chain reaction could have spread underground through the network of pipes.

Defreitas was arrested in Brooklyn after it emerged that one member of the gang was poised to make a foreign trip.

US law enforcement officials said that the group was not linked to al-Qaeda but the cell was part of an international network of Islamic terrorists, operating in the US, the Latin American nation of Guyana, and Trinidad in the Caribbean. An official described the suspects as "al-Qaeda wannabes".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../03/wjfk03.xml

[Brian Olewnick]

One odd thing is that all four are in their 50s or 60s.

otoh, they didn't have the financing, the equipment or any detailed plans so there's more than a little bit of empty chest-thumping to this story. Fine that they were caught but if they hadn't been, it seems really unlikely that anything would ever have occurred.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Brian Olewnick

One odd thing is that all four are in their 50s or 60s.

otoh, they didn't have the financing, the equipment or any detailed plans so there's more than a little bit of empty chest-thumping to this story. Fine that they were caught but if they hadn't been, it seems really unlikely that anything would ever have occurred.

They were seeking financing at the time of arrest and may have gotten it but the feds were forced into action earlier than they would have liked when one of the ringleaders was arrested in Trinidad.

[Clay Fink]

Another bullshit case involving an FBI provocateur, is my guess. BTW, blowing up a well head would not blow up the pipeline going back through Queens. But it would create a very ugly, localized mess at JFK. It would be like singeing your lower bowel by lighting a fart with a Bic lighter. Really all you'd get would be a flaming dingleberry or two. Given that our country is now run by a bunch of fart-lighting adolescents - not to mention a flaming dingleberry or two - this is really no surprise.

Expected delta between an AP report about a bad Muslim and HB or one of our local anti-Islamic bigots posting it here: 10 minutes.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

Another bullshit case involving an FBI provocateur, is my guess.

That's a strong accusation. What do you have to back it up?

From the LA Times story:

Even so, officials played down the danger to travelers, stressing that the plot was far from "operational" and that there was no intelligence to suggest an imminent threat in the United States. "There are no adjustments to our security posture being made as a result of this plot," said a Homeland Security official who, like others discussing the continuing investigation, requested anonymity. Officials also said there was no indication of any links to the al-Qaida terrorist network.


It doesn't sound like this story was fabricated like Clay thinks, nor exaggerated.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

That's a strong accusation. What do you have to back it up?

Knee-jerk conspiracy-theory paranoia. Sometimes the left is its own worst enemy, I'm sorry to say. I suppose Clay would prefer they had the chance to take their insignificant plot to fruition.

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

That's a strong accusation. What do you have to back it up?

Nothing at all. Just a conjecture based on the Administration's past performance. If this isn't the same sort of story, I will be the first to admit my "guess" was wrong.

From the LA Times story:

Even so, officials played down the danger to travelers, stressing that the plot was far from "operational" and that there was no intelligence to suggest an imminent threat in the United States. "There are no adjustments to our security posture being made as a result of this plot," said a Homeland Security official who, like others discussing the continuing investigation, requested anonymity. Officials also said there was no indication of any links to the al-Qaida terrorist network.


It doesn't sound like this story was fabricated like Clay thinks, nor exaggerated.

OK. Where did I say this was a "fabricated" story? I said it sounded like a replay of many recent cases where the FBI used a paid "informant" to stir up some dimwits. That's ALL I suggested, I believe. And it's a testable assertion. You're McCarthyite fucktardedness continues unabated, Gordon. that's the good news in all this.

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Knee-jerk conspiracy-theory paranoia. Sometimes the left is its own worst enemy, I'm sorry to say.

Kneejerk? shure. Conspiracy-theory paranoia? I'd call it skepticism based on past actions and statements by out government, but I'm OK with being paranoid. Left? Ask Gary.

I suppose Clay would prefer they had the chance to take their insignificant plot to fruition.

Come on, Pete. That's something Gordon would say. If this was a legitimate threat, not a bunch of idiots riled up by the FBI, then it's a good example of what law enforcement should do. If it's a repeat of the Ft. Dix or Tarik Shah cases then I want someone to explain how these operations are useful.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

Nothing at all. Just a conjecture based on the Administration's past performance. If this isn't the same sort of story, I will be the first to admit my "guess" was wrong.


OK. Where did I say this was a "fabricated" story? I said it sounded like a replay of many recent cases where the FBI used a paid "informant" to stir up some dimwits. That's ALL I suggested, I believe. And it's a testable assertion. You're McCarthyite fucktardedness continues unabated, Gordon. that's the good news in all this.

Clay, are you incapable of carrying on a civil conversation here with those who don't share your views? You come across to me as a hateful person.

It is interesting that you brand Pete with guilt by association (to me) while calling me a McCarthyite fucktard whatever that means for daring to respond critically to your post.

[Gary Sisco]

I've been seeking funding for all kinds of projects for most of my life. Unsuccessfully.

It's a speech crime, from my perspective, until someone coughs up some, well, used to be called evidence of anything else. People talk all kinds of shit all the time.

Ain't any left. Various shades of right. I guess there can be a left wing of right wing politics, though. There've been right wings of left wing politics, historically, so ...

Could've at least chosen LaGuardia, though. Jet Blue uses JFK, a-and all that trouble's been gone to to hook the place up with a shuttle train ....

Meantime, them Afghans have demonstrated that they now have the ability to manufacture one of them IEDs, one that requires exacting tolerances and so forth. You'll hear all about how it's like one used in Iraq, which it is. Doesn't make for any necessary connection so far as manufacturing goes, not that it matters. During the Russian war, they learned how to manufacture shoulder-launched rocket launchers, in factories in caves, the rockets having been easier to come by then than the launchers. They've been able to reproduce things like that for generations -- muskets back in those days, for example -- parts for AKs, more recently -- so it'd not surprise me if they've learned how to make some mines that require exacting standards. So does a rocket, if you don't want to blow yourself up when launching it.

[Sandi22]

Last night while listening to the news about this matter, we were saying how often we had said, "if I were a terrorist, this is where and how I would strike, this is how I would do it, and don't you think that this would incapacitate LAX, along with the Los Angeles harbor, etc? So while this report was going on we were saying that we shouldn't ever talk like that out in public or over a telephone, even if we were only talking about possible targets terrorists might hit, and how. It might be misconstrued by someone as beng a real threat, and there we'd be, in for hours of interrogations, and perhaps worse.

An expert on the pipelines and potential hazards, was saying on the news this morning, there are so many safeguards built in to the fuel lines, that it would only be a local problem, that the damage to the rocket fuel pipelines wouldn't be capable of traveling on up the line, as they have built in protections against this very thing.

It's hard to believe everything the administration is telling us, as they haven't been known for straight talking since taking office. What else will they come up with? There's bound to be more, and it's bound to be a doozy. I'm not saying these men didn't plot a crazy scheme, one which in all likelihood would have fallen apart, but still, I don't trust this adminstration not to manufacture and mislead us when it comes to "keeping it over there".

[Gary Sisco]

Well, it wouldn't have to travel far up the line to make a hell of a big explosion. It's not the amount so much as it's being in an enclosed space (like in underground, for instance). Wouldn't blow up the whole place, but it'd make a pretty damn big bang, nevertheless. Shrapnel'd fly a good long ways, faster than sound.

You take a stick of dynamite, put it out in a field, hit the plunger, what you have is a big frickin' firecracker. Enclose it in some ballbearings, enclose tightly in a metal container, you have something else altogether. Ask the Weather girl shredded herself so badly years ago the only way they id'd her was by getting a print off a fragment of one of her fingers. Was about all they could find.

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Clay, are you incapable of carrying on a civil conversation here with those who don't share your views?

I can understand how you could come to that conclusion, Gordon, but in this case it's really just you I don't care to have to have a civil conversation with. That and I just like the word "fucktard" a lot.

Pete can handle himself and he doesn't need you to be his mother hen. His statement DID strike me as Gordonesque, however.

So where, again, did I say this was "fabricated".
.

[tristano's ghost]

(1) The impact of this plot is being exaggerated, per the usual/standard media hype; in fact, DHS officials have already conceded that it was "not technically feasible." And then this report via MSNBC:

Richard Kuprewicz, a pipeline expert and president of Accufacts Inc., an energy consulting firm that focuses on pipelines and tank farms, said the force of explosion would depend on the amount of fuel under pressure, but it would not travel up and down the line.
“That doesn’t mean wackos out there can’t do damage and cause a fire, but those explosions and fires are going to be fairly restricted,” he said.

No surprise that our stellar journalism folks didn't bother to really check out the nature of what could or couldn't happen before breathlessly reporting what they'd been told.

(2) Kudos to the law-enforcement and intelligence officials who collared these guys--incompetent as they may have been--before they tried to do any serious damage; but as a TPM writer points out, isn't that the very approach that was ridiculed by the Bushies back in '04? From a Feb. 3, 2004 article in Slate:

Al Gore tried to run on the Clinton record of peace and prosperity. The Bush campaign looks like it will run on arguable prosperity and war. Kerry's line that the war on terrorism is as much a law-enforcement and intelligence-gathering operation as it is a military one is derided. "There's only one person gonna be running for president in November of this year who believes that the war against terrorism is a war, against a transnational army that attacked and every day threatens the people of the United States, not a law enforcement action against a few stray criminals," Talent says. Matalin concurs. "This is not a law enforcement effort, as has been said. This is a war. This is a global war. This is a war between barbarism and civilization."

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

Expected delta between an AP report about a bad Muslim and HB or one of our local anti-Islamic bigots posting it here: 10 minutes.

Hah.

[Hudson Boy]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

Expected delta between an AP report about a bad Muslim and HB or one of our local anti-Islamic bigots posting it here: 10 minutes.

Perhaps there are some "Anti-Islamic bigot" people on this board, but it is not the correct description for my position, which is Atheism(anti-theism). One who opposes all religion cannot be considered a "bigot" against any particular faith. Islam just happens to be in the news today, as most days, due to the proliferation of violent plots and threats by their radical element.

[Scott Dolan]

I'm just glad this provided an oppurtunity for Gary to school us all once more on the "fact" that there is no left in this country. Only shades of right.

I'm going to take great pleasure in calling folks like Al in NYC, Clay, Pete, etc....righties.

Many thanks to my rightwing brother, Gary!

And since there's no left, I wonder how we determined what was the right?

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Hudson Boy

Perhaps there are some "Anti-Islamic bigot" people on this board, but it is not the correct description for my position, which is Atheism(anti-theism). One who opposes all religion cannot be considered a "bigot" against any particular faith. Islam just happens to be in the news today, as most days, due to the proliferation of violent plots and threats by their radical element.

I thought an an atheist was someone who flatly denied the existence of God. That describes me. "One who opposes all religion" is something else, however, and could easily subsume "anti-Islamic bigot". Either way, your (or Monte's) predictability tells me a lot.

Did you start a thread about the Liberty University student who was planing to bomb ant-xian protesters at Falwell's funeral? In this case the guy actually had a trunk full of crude bombs all ready to go. That and he hadn't been egged on by an FBI informant. One interesting note one this guy - according to his MySpace page, two of his favorite movies were "Fight Club" and "Passion of the Christ". What that means I don't think I want to know.

Anyway, if you were similarly alarmed enough to let your friends at JC know about him, then my apologies for assuming the worse in regard to your feelings toward our Muslim brothers and sisters.

[Hudson Boy]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

I thought an an atheist was someone who flatly denied the existence of God. That describes me. "One who opposes all religion" is something else, however, and could easily subsume "anti-Islamic bigot". Either way, your (or Monte's) predictability tells me a lot.

Did you start a thread about the Liberty University student who was planing to bomb ant-xian protesters at Falwell's funeral? In this case the guy actually had a trunk full of crude bombs all ready to go. That and he hadn't been egged on by an FBI informant. One interesting note one this guy - according to his MySpace page, two of his favorite movies were "Fight Club" and "Passion of the Christ". What that means I don't think I want to know.

Anyway, if you were similarly alarmed enough to let your friends at JC know about him, then my apologies for assuming the worse in regard to your feelings toward our Muslim brothers and sisters.

The destruction of JFK is a far bigger story than the one about Falwell’s funeral. It was a major headline all over the world. Just by clicking on Google's "News" right now, and not even entering a keyword or phrase, this story will pop up first. Online, there are literally thousands of news stories about it from all over the world.

If xians had plotted to attack JFK, or a similar crime, I certainly would have posted it, but somebody would likely have beaten me to it.

As much as I am opposed to Judeo-Christianity, and other religions, I believe that Islam is currently as much, or more, of a threat to the world than any other factor. I do not consider this opinion "bigotry".

I also do not consider myself a "brother" to somebody whose religion calls for my, or other infidels', death.

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Hudson Boy

I believe that Islam is currently as much, or more, of a threat to the world than any other factor.

September 11th attacks: < 3,000 deaths
Iraq War: > 600,000 deaths (est.) and counting

Hint: one of these was not initiated by Islamists.

[Scott Dolan]

Oy..........

The Lancet poll, PW?!

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

The Lancet poll, PW?!

It's the most comprehensive study that has been undertaken, with no reason for political bias. But even if you were to stick with an implausibly optimistic Bushite estimate of under 100,000, the numerical point still stands.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Clay, are you incapable of carrying on a civil conversation here with those who don't share your views? You come across to me as a hateful person.

It is interesting that you brand Pete with guilt by association (to me) while calling me a McCarthyite fucktard whatever that means for daring to respond critically to your post.

And you come across to me as a greedy, callous person without a shred of compassion for the weakest in this society.

I piss on you.

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Hudson Boy

As much as I am opposed to Judeo-Christianity, and other religions...

...and the whole world trembles right down to its foundation.

, I believe that Islam is currently as much, or more, of a threat to the world than any other factor. I do not consider this opinion "bigotry".

I disagree. But our actions may make that a true statement sooner or later.

So do you take issue with my definition of atheism?

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by rollhead

And you come across to me as a greedy, callous person without a shred of compassion for the weakest in this society.

I piss on you.

See Gordon, Rollhead is a real meanie. I hardly rate with my "fucktard" comment. You just don't know who your real friends are.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

See Gordon, Rollhead is a real meanie. I hardly rate with my "fucktard" comment. You just don't know who your real friends are.

Clay, I wouldn't have known what Rollhead said if you hadn't quoted him.

[tristano's ghost]

More eyenitwit news:

Okay, I think we've got a pretty solid entrant in the contest to find the most dimwittedly alarmist report on the JFK pipeline 'plot'. As noted earlier, the whole idea behind the alleged 'plot' -- that the explosion would travel up and down the pipeline -- seems to make no sense.

But according to the AP's Adam Goldman, "such an attack would have crippled America's economy, particularly the airline industry."

Late Update: Runner-up, CNN online poll asking "Would the destruction of John F. Kennedy International Airport by terrorists have as much emotional impact as 9/11?"

Even Later Update: According to this article, Russell Freitas, the plot's ringleader, "sells books on street corners and exports broken air-conditioners to Guyana."

-- Josh Marshall

[rollhead]

Blewis you represent just about everything Gandhi warned us about:

Commerce without morality

Knowledge without character

Science without humanity

You accuse people of being hateful, but what you represent is just about the vilest and most hateful philosophy available.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Knee-jerk conspiracy-theory paranoia. Sometimes the left is its own worst enemy, I'm sorry to say. I suppose Clay would prefer they had the chance to take their insignificant plot to fruition.

And sometimes the naive are their own worst enemy.

To deny the obvious, which is that our liberties are hugely at risk because of the zealousness of neo-McCarthyites in this country, is profoundly naive.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by Pedantic Wretch

It's the most comprehensive study that has been undertaken, with no reason for political bias. But even if you were to stick with an implausibly optimistic Bushite estimate of under 100,000, the numerical point still stands.

Comprehensive?

What utter fucking horseshit, PW. A random survey of 1,849 households, 92% of which could actually produce a death certificate. It still blows my mind why people think a scientific "study" needs to be done when dead bodies are easily counted and accounted for.