ICP vs. Pierre Dorge New Jungle Orchestra

Vince Kargatis · June-26th-2007, 08:21 AM

Pierre Dorge New Jungle Orchestra is playing tonight as part of the Ottawa Jazz Fest. ICP's playing tomorrow night. I can only spare time for one. I'm confident I'd enjoy either; I've seen ICP once, only heard PDNJO on record.

I'm indecisive - help me out!

Brian Olewnick · June-26th-2007, 08:41 AM

If both were playing at the peak of their abilities, I'd opt for Dorge (but that would imply that John Tchicai is in the band!). In the late 80s, he hit a real nice groove incorporating West African themes into his stuff. I have no idea what he does these days.

Pete C · June-26th-2007, 08:52 AM

When I saw Dorge a few years back Tchicai was in the audience, but not in the band. They were ok, but I wasn't really too impressed. I'd go with ICP. Dorge plays it straighter.

Gary Sisco · June-26th-2007, 10:03 AM

I'd go hear ICP and try to get up front as possible. They're major entertainment live.

Felix · June-26th-2007, 10:23 AM

I saw the ICP last night, and it was fantastic. The written material was more important than last time I saw them. Many Monk themes popped up as well as some great Mengelberg pieces (Habanera, Zombie Zua, Rollo II). Great solos by Bennink, Delius, Moore, and the others. I spent a deeply satisfying evening. If the Ottawa gig is anything like that one, I wouldn't miss it.

Dan G · June-26th-2007, 10:37 AM

I had to make the same decision (time and money factors...), with Dorge here last weekend and ICP this Thursday. Opted for ICP, even though this will be my 5th (at least) time seeing them. Never been disappointed, whereas when I saw Dorge about 5 years ago it was good but didn't blow me away.
ICP is one of those bands who never seem to get boring...

And in my case, venue matters. ICP are playing in a nice little theatre where I've seen plays and always thought would be great for music; this is the first time there has been music there, so I am curious to see how it works.

Vince Kargatis · June-26th-2007, 02:28 PM

The 2 very recent nods to ICP, and older lukewarm Dorge reviews have cemented it. Thanks! All else being equal, I'm the type to gladly hand responsibility to others.

Chuck Nessa · June-26th-2007, 08:00 PM

ICP, no question.

Vince Kargatis · June-26th-2007, 08:11 PM

Just noting, if I'd seen neither before, I would obviously have chosen ICP. My indecision was due to having seen ICP already.

Dan G · June-29th-2007, 10:49 AM

Vince - how was the Ottawa show?

I saw ICP here in Edmonton last night. Very good, though probably the least of the 5 times I've seen them (I wasn't sure on the number, but speaking with Heberer, he said this was his 5th tour of Canada in his 15 yrs with ICP, and I've seen them every time).

It was mostly small group pieces - duos to quintets, and only a couple of full band pieces. Ab Baars pretty much laid low, spent over half the show sitting in the audience. Honsinger never left the stage, played in many of the groupings but he wasn't doing anything overly interesting. Mostly it was Wierbos, Heberer and Oliver who had the spotlight.

Highlights were an Oliver/Heberer/Glerum piece, one of Heberer/Moore/Bennink, and then the full band encore that Moore did an amazing alto solo on, but then was shown up by Tobias Delius (who looks like one of the most uncomfortable people on stage...) who smoked on tenor.

And speaking of smoking, I'm not sure if Honsinger thought he was in Amsterdam or Vancouver (they're there tomorrow night), but he was smoking pot on stage. Came out to start the show with a burning joint, pinched it out and sat it on the floor in front of him, and finished it in 2 sessions during the first set. A few minutes into the 2nd set, he fired up another one that he re-lit a couple more times. Not surprising really - I know how much they smoke backstage (been there with them...) but I thought this was a bit odd.

Vince Kargatis · June-30th-2007, 03:40 PM

Ottawa show was thoroughly enjoyable. The structure of it was similar, but the groupings were different (two were Oliver/Honsinger/Glerum and Oliver/Wierbos/Moore, there were a couple more maybe). Baars played two solos, proving himself a master at exploiting the inappopriate (e.g. a Machine-Gun like blowout in a train tune, and a middle-school-awkward tone bender in a swinger). Moore was the opposite, always seeming to play the optimally "appropriate" great solo. They did a few miniatures, which I thought sounded really nice in the program. Nice writing throughout, Misha. Delius has a big, great sound.

Gerardo A · June-30th-2007, 08:59 PM

They also featured the string trio (Oliver/Honsinger/Glerum) in Austin a couple of months ago. It was one of the best parts of the show. Austin tenor Alex Coke, a great player, joined them for a string trio + sax quartet and it was almost a Jimmy Giuffre-like free jazz sound, with Honsinger stirring the fire from time to time. Toby Delius played an amazing duet with Han Bennink that went from free assault to boogie and left everyone excited. And the encore was Misha and Han singing a tune together.

So, having seen the ICP, I would have seen Dorge's band. On a side note, my friend Armando Martin (a guitar player) calls Dorge "the softest free-jazzer".