Go Back   Jazzcorner's Speakeasy > POLITICS, WORLD ISSUES & WORLD EVENTS
Connect with Facebook

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July-6th-2007, 12:22 PM   #1
tristano's ghost
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,994
Kiss the Wall Street Journal goodbye

As a credible newspaper, that is:

Murdoch succeeds in effort to buy Dow Jones

Don't know if anybody else read the article in the New Yorker this past week, but it foreshadowed RM's success. Might surprise some, but firebreathing left-liberal that I am, I've enjoyed the WSJ's reporting since my teen journalism-student years (the reprehensible editorial page is another matter). Now it will all be Fox-ified and nothing nasty will ever be said about China, etc.. Mr. Murdoch will make heaps of money, I'm sure, but you can kiss the WSJ's credibility goodbye.
tristano's ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 01:43 PM   #2
Scott Dolan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
I think the article in The Economist a month or so back covered this hysteria about Murdoch gobbling up the WSJ with a pretty level headed approach. See what you think:


http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ory_id=9116969
Scott Dolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 01:59 PM   #3
horton
Registered User
 
horton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8
Hi Scott,

While I enjoyed this article and agree with many of its sentiments, Mr Murdoch taking over WSJ still makes me incredibly nervous. To me it is a screaming flag that shows journalism, well media reporting, will continue to loose quality and merit. It is a very sad state of affairs.........
horton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 02:05 PM   #4
tippy
colors outside the lines
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,288
Do you think it is the influence of Hollywood that has ruined our news (print and tv)? We need some anti-celebrity/celebrity coverage celebrities to speak out against the base interest of gossip re famous people. You know how smokers are pariahs now; we need to make pariahs out of Hollywood gossip followers because it's ruining the minds of the people and our world.

um, yeah, that's the ticket.
tippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 02:23 PM   #5
Scott Dolan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by horton View Post
Hi Scott,

While I enjoyed this article and agree with many of its sentiments, Mr Murdoch taking over WSJ still makes me incredibly nervous. To me it is a screaming flag that shows journalism, well media reporting, will continue to loose quality and merit. It is a very sad state of affairs.........
Can you expand on this a little more? Why do you feel that way?

Oh, and what part of Florida do you live in?
Scott Dolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 02:35 PM   #6
Pete C
Reevaluating @ 500k
 
Pete C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here
Posts: 31,321
Scott Dolan is fair and balanced.
Pete C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 02:49 PM   #7
Dr Dave
User
 
Dr Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Below the line
Posts: 9,884
I think The Economist's editorialists are being naive. Murdoch's modus operandi is to please people in power, so they'll let him run his businesses unfettered by regulation. I don't think Journal reporting will be any less "accurate" under Murdoch, but based on previous performance, you can be sure he'll want his editors to shy away from stories that are potentially embarrassing to the governments whose favor he needs to do business. Just as Fox has more or less stopped coverage of the Iraq war, so will the Journal back away from stories Murdoch finds politically unpalatable.

Unless someone has some inside scoop on Murdoch suddenly changing his business practices, I'd say the WSJ's investigative reporting goose is cooked once Murdoch takes over. Why, I bet they even stop talking about Whitewater--Rupert and Big Bill being such good buddies these days.
Dr Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 02:54 PM   #8
Scott Dolan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
C'mon! How much investigative journalism do they exhibit these days anyway? That's mostly left to the NYT and the WaPo.
Scott Dolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 04:12 PM   #9
guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dave View Post
I think The Economist's editorialists are being naive. Murdoch's modus operandi is to please people in power, so they'll let him run his businesses unfettered by regulation. I don't think Journal reporting will be any less "accurate" under Murdoch, but based on previous performance, you can be sure he'll want his editors to shy away from stories that are potentially embarrassing to the governments whose favor he needs to do business. Just as Fox has more or less stopped coverage of the Iraq war, so will the Journal back away from stories Murdoch finds politically unpalatable.

Unless someone has some inside scoop on Murdoch suddenly changing his business practices, I'd say the WSJ's investigative reporting goose is cooked once Murdoch takes over. Why, I bet they even stop talking about Whitewater--Rupert and Big Bill being such good buddies these days.
I'm inclined to agree with Dr Dave.

On the one hand, paranoia that the WSJ will turn into another branch of Fox News is (probably) misplaced. The business world audience that reads the WSJ prizes accuracy too much, whereas the cable news audience does not.

On the other hand, I'm not aware of any Murdoch-owned media where he doesn't exert editorial influence.

Guy
guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 04:13 PM   #10
guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Dolan View Post
C'mon! How much investigative journalism do they exhibit these days anyway? That's mostly left to the NYT and the WaPo.
A fair amount, though obviously that's only a small fraction of their content.

Guy
guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 04:20 PM   #11
Scott Dolan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy View Post
I'm inclined to agree with Dr Dave.

On the one hand, paranoia that the WSJ will turn into another branch of Fox News is (probably) misplaced. The business world audience that reads the WSJ prizes accuracy too much, whereas the cable news audience does not.

On the other hand, I'm not aware of any Murdoch-owned media where he doesn't exert editorial influence.

Guy

But that plays back into my point, Guy. Editorially speaking they are already quite conservative. So much so that I prefer the NYT editorials. And I'm a conservative fer christs sake! So I really can't see Murdoch taking it to a "worse" level.
Scott Dolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 04:27 PM   #12
guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Dolan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
I'm inclined to agree with Dr Dave.

On the one hand, paranoia that the WSJ will turn into another branch of Fox News is (probably) misplaced. The business world audience that reads the WSJ prizes accuracy too much, whereas the cable news audience does not.

On the other hand, I'm not aware of any Murdoch-owned media where he doesn't exert editorial influence.
But that plays back into my point, Guy. Editorially speaking they are already quite conservative. So much so that I prefer the NYT editorials. And I'm a conservative fer christs sake! So I really can't see Murdoch taking it to a "worse" level.
Scott, I think the concern is about the "news"/"content" part of the WSJ, not about the editorial page.

Guy
guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 04:36 PM   #13
Scott Dolan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
I understand that. But investors have to be kept abreast of political events because they can play into, and have huge effects on, financial markets.

If investors aren't given trustworthy news, they could lose lots-o-money. That, in turn, would cause the WSJ to lose the same. That's not a risk I think Murdoch is willing to take.

THAT would be naive. Something Mr. Murdoch certainly isn't.

Last edited by Scott Dolan; July-6th-2007 at 04:36 PM.
Scott Dolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 05:07 PM   #14
Paul B
___---___
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hedges
Posts: 3,242
In the end, I'm not sure Murdoch cares about the business end of the Journal. If he loses subscribers it won't matter to him; the title is a prestige buy for him and will be the backbone of his new financial network. I'm certain that over time the quality of the journalism will suffer, because he will inevitably get his hands in the mix to kill stories and affect coverage. In any case, the mere perception of that should be enough to taint the Journal. Once it's a officially a Murdoch paper, I'll be switching to the FT.

Funny, though; I don't see any mention of this deal in any major media outlet, and I'll assume it's not happening until I do so.
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 06:31 PM   #15
Paul B
___---___
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hedges
Posts: 3,242
From CBS Marketwatch.

****

Dow Jones denies it's forged News Corp. deal
London publication says Wall Street Journal parent has pact with Murdoch


By Angela Moore & Russ Britt, MarketWatch
Last Update: 6:02 PM ET Jul 6, 2007

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Dow Jones & Co. on Friday denied a report in a London financial publication that its board and Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. have come to an agreement on terms of a takeover for $5 billion, or $60 a share.

Citing sources acting for the Dow Jones (DJ) board, The Business said talks have been completed and the board is "confident" the terms of the deal will be accepted within the next few days by the Bancroft family, whose Class B shares give its members control of Dow Jones, and will be announced formally next week.

"An article published on [The Business's Web site] this morning stating that an agreement in principle has been reached for the sale of Dow Jones & Company to News Corp. is incorrect," Dow Jones said in a news release. News Corp. (NWS)
representatives were not available for comment.

The $5 billion deal has a legally enforceable agreement with Murdoch, the British report said, that is expected to guarantee the "integrity and independence" of The Wall Street Journal, the flagship newspaper of Dow Jones.

Under the terms of this agreement, according to the report, News Corp. will be able to hire and fire the top editors and publishers, but a "nominally independent" five-person committee will have the ability to veto these decisions.

Murdoch and Dow Jones will jointly determine the membership of the panel, which will have the power to choose its successors, the report said. This was a key point and a concession to the Bancrofts, who are grappling with how to preserve the Journal's "editorial integrity" and have come under fire for considering a sale to Murdoch, the report said.

The Bancrofts have held extensive talks with lawyers as they've worked to satisfy themselves about the strength and durability of the editorial safeguards, the report said.
The Dow Jones board and Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. are trying to mitigate the concerns of some members of the Bancroft family that a sale to News Corp., owner of splashy tabloids and Fox News, among other outlets, could compromise the editorial integrity of the Journal.

The Bancrofts originally rejected News Corp.'s offer to buy the company for $5 billion, or $60 a share. But they have since reconsidered the proposal, disclosed May 1, which represented a 65% premium to Dow Jones shares at the time.

Shares of Dow Jones -- which is the parent company of MarketWatch, the publisher of this report -- rose 2.1% to $59.07 at the close Friday.
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 08:22 PM   #16
Monte Smith
************
 
Monte Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manchester United States of America
Posts: 15,521
You all need to read David Hare's original attack on Murdoch, 1985's Pravda, where our erstwhile mogul is cast as a White South African, because in 1985 nothing was more evil and obviously Rupert Murdoch is the depth of evil, even if he isn't a South African. Very amusing. And naturally his journalistic ethos is compared, disfavorably, to the state run organs of Communist Russia.
Monte Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 09:42 PM   #17
horton
Registered User
 
horton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8
Scott,

South West Florida, because you asked, but this guy has a good point

"I think The Economist's editorialists are being naive. Murdoch's modus operandi is to please people in power, so they'll let him run his businesses unfettered by regulation. I don't think Journal reporting will be any less "accurate" under Murdoch, but based on previous performance, you can be sure he'll want his editors to shy away from stories that are potentially embarrassing to the governments whose favor he needs to do business. Just as Fox has more or less stopped coverage of the Iraq war, so will the Journal back away from stories Murdoch finds politically unpalatable."

"Unless someone has some inside scoop on Murdoch suddenly changing his business practices, I'd say the WSJ's investigative reporting goose is cooked once Murdoch takes over. Why, I bet they even stop talking about Whitewater--Rupert and Big Bill being such good buddies these days."

I agree with this guy, I was a journalist for many years, Murdoch was always the pole about to be up my ass, journalism used to be respected years ago, and now it is a joke. RM has a great deal to do with that. The fact is, if one guy has a monopoly...its never going to be fair journalism.
horton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-6th-2007, 10:11 PM   #18
Scott Dolan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
Fair enough points.

I grew up in Port Charlotte, BTW.
Scott Dolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-7th-2007, 05:57 AM   #19
horton
Registered User
 
horton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8
Port Charlotte? Little further up than me, I am not looking forward to another sticky, rainy day weather wise...though I have to say you cannot beat a day at the beach in my eyes.
horton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July-31st-2007, 01:34 PM   #20
tristano's ghost
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,994
Too bad--I never could stand the editorial page, but I've been reading the news & business sections since I was an undergrad. No more:

Quote:
WSJ: Murdoch clinches votes for DJ deal
By SETH SUTEL, AP Business Writer

NEW YORK - Rupert Murdoch's bid for Wall Street Journal publisher Dow Jones & Co. appears to have won enough support from the company's controlling shareholders to ensure its passage, the newspaper reported Tuesday.

The Journal said, quoting unnamed people familiar with the situation, that Bancroft family members representing 32 percent of the company's vote had agreed to the deal. A family spokesman declined to comment.

Murdoch's News Corp. must still decide whether it is comfortable with that level of support in order to proceed. With some public shareholders likely to abstain, News Corp. wants a solid majority of votes committed to the deal.

Dow Jones shares were already sharply higher Tuesday on hopes that a deal was close, and were getting closer and closer to Murdoch's offering price of $60 a share, indicating growing confidence the deal will go through. In early afternoon trading, Dow Jones stock rose $6.21, or 12 percent at $57.77.

The Bancroft family controls 64 percent of the company's shareholder vote. Given that many of the public shareholders representing 29 percent of Dow Jones' vote are likely to support a deal, Murdoch only needs about half of the Bancroft family's block in order to win.

News Corp. has said it would only proceed if it felt there was enough support among the Bancrofts, but it hasn't specified what that level is. A News Corp. spokesman said Monday that the company was "highly unlikely" to proceed with the deal if support from the family remained at the level reported at that time — about 29 percent.

News Corp.'s board is scheduled to meet Tuesday at 4 p.m. ET, and a decision to seal the deal could come at that time. Dow Jones' board is set to meet later Tuesday, at 7 p.m.

Members of the Bancroft family, which has controlled Dow Jones for a century, had a 5 p.m. deadline Monday to tell the family's lead trustee how they would vote on Murdoch's offer.

Negotiations were apparently continuing over other matters in an attempt to convince holdout Bancroft votes to sign on to the deal, The Wall Street Journal reported. The paper said a proposal under discussion would have News Corp. pay the Bancroft family's advisory fees — which could total at least $30 million — if it received the support of at least one of two key holdout shareholders.

Representatives of News Corp., Dow Jones and the Bancroft family all declined to comment on the continuing negotiations on Tuesday.

The Bancrofts are a diverse clan and their voting interest in the company is held through a complex series of privately held trusts, making the outcome difficult to predict.

Over the past few weeks investors have been steadily pushing Dow Jones shares below the $60 price that Murdoch has offered, reflecting increasing doubts about the deal going through.

The Bancroft family has been deeply divided over whether to sell to Murdoch, largely over concerns that his management style could affect the papers' coverage.

Murdoch says any concerns about corporate meddling in the Journal's news coverage are unwarranted. News Corp. has agreed to create a committee that would have to sign off on any decision to hire or fire top editors at the paper.

In a lengthy letter to fellow family members last week, Bancroft descendant Crawford Hill urged them to vote for a sale, saying the family hadn't taken an active enough role in overseeing Dow Jones and was now "paying the price for our passivity over the past 25 years."

Dow Jones' board has tentatively approved the deal, and the final decision now rests with the Bancrofts. Besides several Bancroft family members, including Dow Jones director Christopher Bancroft, Murdoch's bid is also being opposed by former board member Jim Ottaway Jr., whose family controls 7 percent of the shareholder vote.
tristano's ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 10:32 AM   #21
rollhead
Quitting @ 10.4k
 
rollhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York state
Posts: 11,082
Another victory for the right-wing and their "libertarian" fellow travellers.

Other than the obvious fact that the WSJ has been purchased by the same guy who brought us Bill O'Reilly, no one seems to have mentioned the other obvious fact -- that this is just another nail in the coffin of the nominal notion of an "independent press."

Free Press Urges Congress and FCC to Roll Back Media Consolidation

WASHINGTON — News reports today indicate that the Bancroft family will accept Rupert Murdoch's $5 billion bid for Dow Jones and the Wall Street Journal. Media scholar and Free Press President Robert W. McChesney made the following statement:

"This takeover is bad news for anyone who cares about quality journalism and a healthy democracy. Giving any single company — let alone one controlled by Rupert Murdoch — this much media power is unconscionable.

"Media consolidation has replaced investigative journalism with infotainment, foreign affairs reporting with fluff, and local coverage with cookie-cutter content. Contrary to industry spin, emerging Internet outlets fail to offset consolidation's effect on journalism. Now Murdoch will control a broadcast network, a cable news channel and a national newspaper — three of the small handful of outlets that set our national news agenda.

"Rupert Murdoch — who has never hesitated to use his pulpit to advance his own ideological and business interests — won't change his ways. But we can change the policies that allow companies like News Corp. to dominate our media.

"We can only hope the culmination of this deal is the wake-up call Washington needs to start rolling back media consolidation. The first step is to pass new 'cross-ownership' laws that would prevent the owner of a national television network from owning a national daily newspaper.

"Murdoch's empire wouldn't exist if he hadn't been aided and abetted by Washington policymakers in Congress and at the FCC. Only by restoring public input in the policy-making process can we create the kind of diverse, accessible and independent media that journalism — and our democracy — so desperately needs."

###
__________________
WOW!

Last edited by rollhead; August-2nd-2007 at 10:34 AM.
rollhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 11:10 AM   #22
Gary Sisco
The Bluegrass
 
Gary Sisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: no country for old men
Posts: 30,835
Somehow I can't work up any grief.
__________________
Away from the delusionary forces that turn music into a step to fame and fortune it becomes a reason to live." (David Morris)
Gary Sisco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 11:39 AM   #23
Paul B
___---___
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hedges
Posts: 3,242
I can. The Journal is a great paper (editorial page notwithstanding), and if I had to read one paper a day I'd take it over the Times. It has lost a little strength over the years; a story linked at Romanesko's page points out some of the truly fantastic Journal writing from decades past, and the new, smaller format hasn't done it any favors. Still, it covers stories you won't see anywhere else, and it will be sorely missed. Supposedly Murdoch takes over in three months, and that's when I'll cease being a reader.
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 11:44 AM   #24
Gary Sisco
The Bluegrass
 
Gary Sisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: no country for old men
Posts: 30,835
That's capitalism, baby. Grow or die. You either put your competition out of business or you absorb it.

It's what people want.

It's what they have.
__________________
Away from the delusionary forces that turn music into a step to fame and fortune it becomes a reason to live." (David Morris)
Gary Sisco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 11:53 AM   #25
Scott Dolan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
I can. The Journal is a great paper (editorial page notwithstanding), and if I had to read one paper a day I'd take it over the Times. It has lost a little strength over the years; a story linked at Romanesko's page points out some of the truly fantastic Journal writing from decades past, and the new, smaller format hasn't done it any favors. Still, it covers stories you won't see anywhere else, and it will be sorely missed. Supposedly Murdoch takes over in three months, and that's when I'll cease being a reader.

Why?

You're just automatically assuming it will change overnight. Pretty short sighted on your part, Paul. You're a smarter cat than that. What if Murdoch essentially leaves it as it is now?
Scott Dolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 12:05 PM   #26
rollhead
Quitting @ 10.4k
 
rollhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York state
Posts: 11,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
I can. The Journal is a great paper (editorial page notwithstanding), and if I had to read one paper a day I'd take it over the Times. It has lost a little strength over the years; a story linked at Romanesko's page points out some of the truly fantastic Journal writing from decades past, and the new, smaller format hasn't done it any favors. Still, it covers stories you won't see anywhere else, and it will be sorely missed. Supposedly Murdoch takes over in three months, and that's when I'll cease being a reader.
Paul, if you get a chance, check out Ken Wells' "Floating Off The Page."

I think you would appreciate it.

__________________
WOW!

Last edited by rollhead; August-2nd-2007 at 12:05 PM.
rollhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 12:06 PM   #27
Paul B
___---___
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hedges
Posts: 3,242
I don't think it will change overnight; I just won't support any publication owned by Murdoch.

I do think it will slowly morph over time in all the predicable ways: shorter, dumbed-down stories; no coverage likely to piss off the powers that Murdoch wants to appease, like the Chinese government; and as a prop for Murdoch's personal views and political positions. I'm sure many readers won't mind, and I'm sure many will. Count me among the latter.
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 12:25 PM   #28
rollhead
Quitting @ 10.4k
 
rollhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York state
Posts: 11,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dave View Post
I think The Economist's editorialists are being naive. Murdoch's modus operandi is to please people in power, so they'll let him run his businesses unfettered by regulation. I don't think Journal reporting will be any less "accurate" under Murdoch, but based on previous performance, you can be sure he'll want his editors to shy away from stories that are potentially embarrassing to the governments whose favor he needs to do business. Just as Fox has more or less stopped coverage of the Iraq war, so will the Journal back away from stories Murdoch finds politically unpalatable.

Unless someone has some inside scoop on Murdoch suddenly changing his business practices, I'd say the WSJ's investigative reporting goose is cooked once Murdoch takes over. Why, I bet they even stop talking about Whitewater--Rupert and Big Bill being such good buddies these days.
Don't forget Rupert and Hillary.

http://www.tnr.com/docprint.mhtml?i=...&s=smith011606

As far as talk about Whitewater, Maureen Dowd is still here to carry the torch on that burning issue.
__________________
WOW!

Last edited by rollhead; August-2nd-2007 at 12:27 PM.
rollhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 01:17 PM   #29
Paul B
___---___
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hedges
Posts: 3,242
The Times has been a disgrace on several fronts over the years--Whitewater is a prime example, as well as the run-up to the war--arguably causing more damage than the bilious ranters on the Journal's op-ed pages ever could. Maureen Dowd is hard to swallow even when I do agree with her.
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August-2nd-2007, 01:21 PM   #30
Jeffrey Wozniak
Registered User
 
Jeffrey Wozniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 2,580
Dowd is Ann Coulter's radical left-wing cousin. Both are over the top blo-hards, yet come from opposite ends of the political spectrum.
__________________
"The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery." --Winston Churchill
Jeffrey Wozniak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Jazzcorner's Speakeasy > POLITICS, WORLD ISSUES & WORLD EVENTS

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All material copyright 2009 jazzcorner.com