Jazz Club or Restaurant/bar with jazz

[cookie]

Maybe people have some ideas about this.

In my mind, a true jazz club is significantly different from an establishment that happens to host jazz bands. In a jazz club, the music is the centerpiece and conversation is to be non-existant or kept at the most polite of pianissiomos. In a restaurant with jazz, the centerpiece is moving food and drink. The band may be very welcome and treated well, but they are not the true focus of the establishment. They're just bait to get people through the door. Conversation can be quite loud. Sometimes people will complain that the band is too loud (even if the band is only playing at the acoustic level of their instruments. Music makes noise and a live drummer isn't as easily turned down as one on the jukebox).

I have worked in both situations (mostly the latter). Certainly, I don't mind having the artistic freedom of the jazz club, but I also don't mind a noisy crowd. I almost enjoy the challenge of having to attract their ear. In the end, as long as I get to play jazz music and they hand over good ol'cash monay or the check clears, I'm a happy girl. Lucky, no?

I think that as a jazz freak, as an intense listener and lover of the music and its players, I prefer the music centric jazz club. I sometimes get bugged when people try to talk to me over a good band when I'm out listening in a variety bar or restaurant.

Any thoughts about this? I mean, sometimes I really dig a noisy place because the energy ramps up, but sometimes, I just don't want to hear any voices except the ones on the stand.

[John L]

Those are some interesting thoughts, Cookie.

I would only add that I don't necessarily think that good food ruins a good context for jazz. Some of the best clubs that I have been to serve good food, including Yoshi's and the VV. Remember the concert we saw together at Twins in DC? Twins has excellent food, and I always make a point of eating there when I take in a concert. When the music comes on, however, that is THE focus, food or no food.

I agree that too many jazz musicians are forced to work in environments where the music is not the main focus. That can be understandably frustrating. That was at least as true in the past as it is today. I am always amazed when listening to live recordings of the greatest jazz musicans in top form struggling to be heard over the conversation and other noise.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by John L

Some of the best clubs that I have been to serve good food, including Yoshi's and the VV.

You can't mean the Village Vanguard. I think they stopped serving food ca. 1953.

[Mike Schwartz]

Just this past Thursday, I went to Jazz At Pearl's, in Northbeach up in SF to see the burnin' guitarist & friend Sheryl Bailey. Pearl's is back to strictly drinks (they did meals for a while). It's generally a good (and fairly small) listening room, meaning the patrons are there to hear the musicians and respect being quiet for the most part.

It's location does invite the tourists who 'see the band through the window' and come in to get a few drinks and sit for a while. There were folks the other night behind me who were strictly there to yuk/yak it up with no regards for the musicians and clueless that everyone else in the room was attentive to what the band was doing.

Mikey had to get up out of his seat and ask them to tone it down during the performance...

[Bill Barton]

Both Jazz Alley and Tula's in Seattle rank as true jazz clubs in my experience. Bring lots of money if you're coming to the former.

[walto]

As I've ranted elsewhere, I don't like background music of any kind.

[shrugs]

Originally Posted by Bill Barton

Both Jazz Alley and Tula's in Seattle rank as true jazz clubs in my experience. Bring lots of money if you're coming to the former.

Both Jazz Alley and Tula's were my haunts when I lived across the Sound. Tula's usually got my business more regularly due to the fact you could stay their all night for one price.
Although, oftentimes Jazz Alley did allow you to stay over for the second set. Not as many lively conversatons there either as there were at Tula's. Usually from people who were there for reasons other than the music.
A good experience though IMHO, because going though life as that curmudgeon who expects absolute silence is not worth the stress.

[VIBEr]

I'm probably the odd man out here, but I think that jazz is moving into the concert arena and that jazz clubs are a thing of the past, with the rare exception of the few aforementioned established venues in the major cities. But it really doesn't bother me at all, figuring that a club or restaurant scene isn't a concert anyway and as long as the noise isn't completely obnoxious (whether there's music or not), I can live with it. I actually feel uncomfortable in a club where it's too quiet!

[cookie]

Truth be told, I really prefer jazz in a club even if it isn't the totally silent dedicated jazz club, I *like* a little noise in the house, especially if it's artist and audience encouraging each other to an ever more positive vibe. Concert jazz is great, but it can feel stiff when the audience is expected to be churchmouse passive and polite. I've heard some GREAT jazz in concert halls, no doubt, but I prefer the social setting of a bar/restaurant for jazz listening. There is no doubt that the music is becoming more and more academicized (is that a word??), but I think it's still vital as social music and I like live music while I eat and drink. But I'm a freak. In my ideal world, I'd eat dinner at a restaurant featuring live jazz then I'd go to a jazz concert and I'd stop at a bar on the way home for a nightcap and more live jazz.

I like to see folks smiling and see their feet tapping and heads nodding.Sometimes I hear 'em talking to each other about digging the music. How am I gonna get bugged by that? I'm no Keith Jarrett, man!

[hornplayer]

I think when the artist wants the audience participation, it's easy enough to ask for and get it. I prefer listening to Jazz in a club without talking going on around me.

Back when I was younger, I talked about having a restaurant and club, but the performance venue would've been a separate room where the diners repaired to after dinner for the show. I can still see the place in my mind's eye. There was an abandoned building on Washington Street in the South End of Boston that a good friend and I had our eye on for the place. We wanted to call it "Dinah's."

[cookie]

Originally Posted by hornplayer

I think when the artist wants the audience participation, it's easy enough to ask for and get it. I prefer listening to Jazz in a club without talking going on around me.

Back when I was younger, I talked about having a restaurant and club, but the performance venue would've been a separate room where the diners repaired to after dinner for the show. I can still see the place in my mind's eye. There was an abandoned building on Washington Street in the South End of Boston that a good friend and I had our eye on for the place. We wanted to call it "Dinah's."

I dig that concept, hp, especially if the music room had dessert and coffee as well as after dinner drinks. I can imagine a nice evening with convivial conversation over dinner and an enjoyable performance with alcohol or sugar as a capper.

[Gary Sisco]

Yeah but are you a Keith Jarrett woman, Cookie?

Otherwise, what Cookie said.

For me (and for humans for thousands of years), music is a social thing, or ought to be. Listening to records at home is fine, one of my favorite pastimes. But nothing beats live music, especially in the company of friends, and I prefer live music in atmosphere that's not too tight-assed. If jazz were to move all the way out of the clubs and become a concert music, like classical, would be a crime. Clubs are its native environment.

[clinthopson]

Even though I've heard some good players at Jazz STandard, I think the food servce noise takes away from the performances.

I remember the audience at Sweet Rhythm was very attentive. Is it still open?

The best place for attentive audiences in L.A. is probably the Jazz Bakery.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

I remember the audience at Sweet Rhythm was very attentive. Is it still open?

Yep, still open. Maybe we can go there in October.

[Gary Sisco]

They used to serve food when it was Sweet Basil. Do they still?

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Yes. Truth is, the only difference I see is the name. It got a nice makeover as well. They present a good amount of Jazz too, even though they bill themselves as an "eclectic music" venue.

http://www.sweetrhythmny.com/

[GoodSpeak]

My two cents....


I think we have forgotten who pays the cover charge or two drink minimum here. These ain't necessarily regular Jazz listening folks. The Jazz club scene has fallen off and given way to the "venue" scene.


Playing the devil's advocate here: Do we want exceedingly polite, hyper attentive, teetotaling patrons who applaud only at appropriate times and remain completely still during the performances while maintaining an air of absolute respect?


Or do the small club artists want to be patronized by repeat-business fans who pay for their drinks and/or cover charge...thereby allowing the club owner to cut the checks?


The Jazz club scene on 52nd Street or Downtown LA is a long since gone image of the past.



Seems to me, if you require silent respect and polite applause...you need to book a concert hall on a college campus [no kidding]. The rest is a pipe dream, IMHO.



This is 2007.


Not 1957.



Things have changed some.

[rpcjazz]

There is nothing more irritating in life than having a live club experience ruined by some dope who stumbled in from the sidewalk who refuses to shut up while the players desperately try their best while this clown ruins it for everyone. If you're not there for the music, don't go.
I prefer the clubs to the concerts. More spontaneity,more relaxed atmosphere, less pressure to play the "hits".( and a good Scotch never hurt anyone).

[Gary Sisco]

Assholes wander into concert halls, too.