Free Jazz To Relax By During Wartime

[Gary Sisco]

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/08...us_free+.shtml


Thanks to Root Doctor for the link.

[Dr Dave]

Okay list, especially from The Globe (!) but I say the all-time free-jazz-during-wartime recording is Pharoah Sanders' "Jewels of Thought" with Leon Thomas singing on "Hum-Allah" the verse "Prince of Peace, won't you hear our plea, ring your bells of peace, let loving never cease"

[Paul B]

a

[Nate Dorward]

I'd say that the Paul Bley album stick out like a sore thumb among the rest of the list--I suppose by Bley's latterday standards it's fairly forceful, but it's hardly comparable to the various classic blowouts Greenlee lists.

A vote for Zorn's rendition of "The Battle of Algiers" on The Big Gundown as a particularly pertinent track in these times.

[Paul B]

j

[Dennis Gonzalez]

How 'bout Paul Motian's version of Ornette's "War Orphans" on Tribute ? Carlos Ward's weeping alto will remind you just exactly how to relax during a war...not!

[Uli]

Originally posted by Paul B
. Whatever your opinion of Gayle--personally, I can't stand him--his approach and ideas are so narrow that he stands in marked contrast to someone like Coltrane,

No, they aren't, no he doesn't.

[Paul B]

q

[Uli]

Originally posted by Paul B


Comparing the two is beyond ridiculous, and there are twenty other saxophonists who could far more easily be considered "heirs" to Coltrane than Gayle.

Bye-ya.

The only "compairison" the article made was calling Gayle the true heir. I am looking forward to your list of truer heirs.

[Paul B]

o

[michaelr]

Regardless of the choices that were made, I found this article inane, simplistic, and incredibly irritating. Remember that this is an article by the jazz writer of major newspaper!!! The audience is not insiders (like the folks on this board) but the general readership of the Boston Globe. The list ended up being some sort of hip "soundtrack to war" that didn't provided a sense of personal, puposeful response. (Compare this to heartfelt lists generated by people on this lists and others after 9/11.)

Instead, it lumps together music that was made with incredibly disparate aesthetic intentions into a simple-minded grouping. Greenlee continues to astonish and disapoint me with his poor writing and limited understanding of jazz and improvisation.

[Uli]

Originally posted by Paul B
I'm not sure how a guy with limited technique and an even more limited vision can be called the true heir to a man who is quite possibly the greatest saxophonist in jazz history, whose work is incredibly deep and varied, and whose contribution to the music is virtually unmatched.

I bow to your superior knowledge regarding technique. I expected you to bring up the vision thingy. I am a big Trane fan as well but my vision is not limited enough to put him on a pedestal of greatest saxophonist in jazz history. To many contenders like Bird, Rollins, Hawkins, Lester......A focused vision ain't necessarily a limited vision and a varied vision ain't necessarily unlimited, imho.

[Paul B]

:--0

It figures that we would end up seeing someone(one of the onions) trash Gayle and promoting Parker. All I have to say is that it's all pretty rediculous. Coltranes kids are his 'true' heirs. Gayle is a great musician who pours a great deal of emotion into everything that he plays, and it touches a lot of people. Evan Parker has taken the tenor in completely different directions than anyone else, and he also has touched a lot of people. So which one is better, who cares? They are both greats in their own ways, and to make comparisons so that you can trash one and exalt another is petty and self serving at best.

i personally find Gayle's music to be much more engaging, but I refuse to trash Parker just to get my own personal opinions across.

How anyone could not find 'Touchin On Trane' exhilarating is beyond me, but until Paul B puts out something better, I'll have to take his fiery opinion with a grain of salt.

Gayle can't play a chord change to save his life? Who cares? Thats just sounds like something a frustrated or bitter musician would come up with. As a listener, those musical semantics don't mean a thing to me, it's what comes across in the music itself. And I personally hear a great deal in Gayle's playing.

[Dr Dave]

Later for Charles Gayle. More free-jazz peace music ideas, please.

Well Doc, I've been listening to Other Dimensions In Music's 'NOW!'. It has such a relaxed feel to it that it seems like it would be a good fit. The album has a very loose and relaxed pace throughout, and when I listen to it, I just seem to melt into my listening chair. Great album to let stress flow right out of your body to.

[Jim Dye]

I dig the Sanders/Thomas side as well Dave. My friends and I have a tradition on Christmas eve when we go and find an abandoned pre-cut tree (there are always free ones around the night before), bring it home, and decorate it. 'Prince Of Peace', the version on Pharoah's Strata East album, is always the first record we spin.

[Paul B]

;--)

[Il Anto]

I think Trane's Stellar Regions would be a good pick for such a list. It's free, yet much of it is melodic and mellow.

Also, Ornette's Skies of America, not for the title, but for it's sheer orchestral beauty.

[Tanager]

A recent release, Daniel Carter and Reuben Radding's Luminescence, is a most peaceful listen.

Tanager, yes! I just got 'Luminescence' in the mail two days ago. I agree wholeheartedly, it is simply a beautiful meditation.

Paul B, what i said exactly was:

"Thats just sounds like something a frustrated or bitter musician would come up with."

I did not mean that that was your actual position on things. My apologies if I did not word it correctly. ut I have heard others make comments that are similar to these and that was always the impression that I got from them.

And i also am not one who is going to say that Gayle is the 'heir' to Coltrane. Personally I think it is a rediculously romantic notion to say that about anyone. And though you may find my logic strange, i felt that many of the points that you were making before seemed awfully slanted and deragatory towards Gayle. I cannot understand the logic of someone who is so willing to put down one musician so that he can offer up his own version of a true genius.

They are both great at what they do, isn't that enough? There always seems to be way too much American Jazz bashing by those who love European Improv here. I don't think that either stands heads and shoulders over the other, it all just comes down to personal taste.

But I will say this one more time, I do not believe that Gayle is Coltranes 'heir'. So that i agree with you about. But neither is Parker. But your position seems to one of putting everything into a more technical perspective, and all I am arguing is that that is not a perspective that should be the measuring stick of who is and is not great. As a listener I am not at all concerned with whether or not Coltrane, Parker, or Gayle are outstanding technicians, it's their music that touches me, and i don't need to be given any insight as to their technical merits to be able to appreciate their outstanding music.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Spy vs Spy is Zorn at his "most discordant"? I'll be damned. Spy vs Spy is like Lester Young after smoking a brick of BC weed compared to Locus Solus, or any of those duck call records.

But hey, at least this guy is saying good things about free jazz in a fiarly major publication. I have no beef.

[Paul B]

;--)

[jazzfiend]

Wholeheartedly agree with the choice of Daniel Carter/ Rueben Radding release, Luninescence. Lovely disc.

Hey Scott, I sure do miss the name, Mo Noyz. Mind if I still call ya Mo?

Agree with your position on Gayle, one of our prime movers on tenor. Chord changes or not, the cat connects with me on a rather deep level. I also suspect that he possesses more technique than one realizes, and could probably put forth some pretty effective mainstream jazz if he so desired. Gayle's narrower focus is a matter of choice, I believe. Recheck his awesome performance on Precious Soul & Ancient of Days. It's my contention that Gayle comes closest to being the true heir of Trane.


Always a Pleasure

Paul B, no apology necessary, just had to stick up for one of my main men. But thanks for the good words.

Jazzfiend, yeah, I kinda miss that name myself, shoud've of stuck with it. You can call me anything you'd like. Maybe I'll have to change back to it.

I also remember that a lot of people used to level the same types of accusations at Pharoah. But I really felt that he proved a lot of that wrong later on in his career, though once again, not being a musician I can't actually confirm that. But he did eventually perform some pretty straight ahead stuff, some of which sounded quite nice.

So there may be something to that Jazzfiend.





Mo Noyz

[walto]

I think he picked an odd (not to say "completely wrong" Sun Ra as "one of his best" and is (as has already been pointed out) beyond just mistaken about "Spy v Spy" being Zorn's "most discordant" disc. You wonder how much stuff he's heard.

Anyhow, I'm only interested in Uli's list.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by walto
I think he picked an odd (not to say "completely wrong" Sun Ra as "one of his best" and is (as has already been pointed out) beyond just mistaken about "Spy v Spy" being Zorn's "most discordant" disc. You wonder how much stuff he's heard.

Anyhow, I'm only interested in Uli's list.

Yeah, "Spy Vs. Spy" is downright melodic compared to Cobra. I didn't think this guy was a jazz journalist - more like a regular journalist who wrote a piece on jazz. Either that or he's just not very familiar with free jazz. Most of the choices (including the Sun Ra) seemed very random.

I agree with Sergio(the end is near!). It did look like a slightly random selection, but hey, it WAS great to see all those titles in such a major publication wasn't it?

But most likely those just happened to be his own personal favorites. You can hardly get two Jazz fans to agree on much anyways. And really, it's pretty hard to fault him on any of those selections, they're all pretty darn good.

[Dennis Gonzalez]

I wonder where the idea came from that Charles Gayle can't play changes? The Gospel music that he plays is full of standard changes that that particular genre uses. Furthermore, the idea of changes as a way to tell if a person plays well or not is so like 40 years ago. It's an artificial measure.

Hey Dennis, thats great to hear. i personally don't get it much myself, but not being a musician always leaves me on the short end of that type of argument. Nice to hear yet another side to this story.