Pete Rose is coming back to MLB

Gordon B · August-12th-2003, 12:47 PM

The Return of Pete Rose
Exclusive--He's Back in Baseball in 2004

by Derek Zumsteg and Will Carroll

Pete Rose and Major League Baseball have reached an agreement that would allow him to return to baseball in 2004, and includes no admission of wrongdoing by Rose, Baseball Prospectus has learned. According to several sources, Rose signed the agreement after a series of pre-season meetings between Rose, Hall of Fame member Mike Schmidt, and at different times, high-level representatives of Major League Baseball, including Bob DuPuy, Major League Baseball's Chief Operating Officer, and Allan H. "Bud" Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball.

The agreement includes removal of Rose from baseball's permanently ineligible list. This would allow Rose to appear on ballots for baseball's Hall of Fame, which bars such banned players from consideration. The agreement allows Rose to be employed by a team in the 2004 season, as long as that position does not involve the day to day operations. That employment restriction would be removed after a year, allowing Rose to return to managing a team as early as the 2005 season if a position is offered to him.

A spokesman for Major League Baseball denied this report. Baseball Prospectus stands by its story.

In December, several publications reported that Rose and Bud Selig met in Milwaukee last winter, and that lawyers for both sides were exchanging proposals to end Rose's lifetime ban from baseball. Jayson Stark of ESPN wrote in a column August 7th that Reds owner Carl Lindner intends to hire Rose as the team's manager and has agitated for Rose's reinstatement for some time.

Pete Rose has been banned from baseball since he reached an agreement with then-Commissioner Bart Giamatti that included a lifetime ban from baseball for conduct detrimental to the sport, but which did not include an admission that Rose gambled on baseball. The August 23, 1989 agreement ended the investigation by baseball, led by John Dowd. Dowd's findings are published at www.dowdreport.com. Dowd concluded that Rose had bet on games he was involved in, citing such evidence as telephone records including calls to a bookie from the Reds clubhouse, bank records of large payments, and betting notes that handwriting experts identified as Rose's, which matched records of bookie Ron Peters. Baseball Prospectus has published several articles on the continuing controversy over Rose, including a lengthy evaluation of baseball historian and Boston Red Sox analyst Bill James's criticisms of the Dowd Report. Rose has always denied that he has bet on baseball.

The agreement would secure a place on the Hall of Fame ballot for Rose as his eligibility window closes. Rose played his last season in 1986, and Hall of Fame eligibility rules require that a player appear within 20 years of the end of their playing career. There would be significant barriers to Rose appearing on the 2004 ballot, which would leave only one year of eligibility for election by voters at large. If Rose failed to be elected by a vote, he would have to be selected by the Veterans' Committee.

Chris D · August-12th-2003, 01:05 PM

I just saw a piece wherein DuPuy denied this is happening.

RBS · August-12th-2003, 01:13 PM

If Pete Rose is let back into baseball, it will kill my love of the game more than the '94 World Series cancellation. He's a grade A number one douchebag, and he and his gambler's mentality can go fuck themselves.

I just wish I'd run into him in person so I could tell him to his bad hair day face.

Joe Milazzo · August-12th-2003, 01:37 PM

I bet the deal falls through...

Tanager · August-12th-2003, 01:46 PM

I stopped giving a shit about baseball when Peter Angelos starting dumping the Orioles down the toilet. Nobody within 100 miles of Bud Selig has any business preaching morality or love of the game to anyone, Pete Rose or anyone else.

Jimmy Cantiello · August-12th-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Milazzo
I bet the deal falls through...

I'm sure Pete would cover that bet................

GoodSpeak · August-12th-2003, 02:27 PM

This is GREAT news!

I really hope this isn't just rumor because the All-time hits leader deserves, no, has EARNED a place in the Hall.

They elect baseball players to the HOF not choirboys.

Charlie Hustle needs to be exonerated and the records he set honored in baseball's shrine to athletic greatness. Period.

MRS · August-12th-2003, 05:34 PM

I hate Pete Rose with a burning passion. He broke the golden rule. Great, Ty Cobb was an insufferable prick. He did not bet on baseball. Pete Rose is a prick and broke the golden rule. And Mantle gave him that moniker in mocking jest at Rose sprinting down to first on walks.

I'm glad to see this is total bullshit in the first place.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/story?id=1594520

GoodSpeak · August-12th-2003, 05:49 PM

Golden rule?

You mean the same golden rule that allowed a guy like Cobb in who bragged he once killed a man...THAT Golden Rule?

Selective reasoning on sale in the lobby as you leave the Hall.

GoodSpeak · August-12th-2003, 05:52 PM

Mike,

Note this line: "When a decision is made, it will be reported through the appropriate channels," DuPuy said in a statement later Tuesday.

Right.

I think this is a little bit more than "bullshit", Mike.

I'll take the "wait and see" approach on this one...right after I quit laughing over Roger Clemmens' denial he was leaving Boston.

MRS · August-12th-2003, 06:00 PM

From a Cobb biographer:

Quote:

While driving to the train station to head to Syracuse for an exhibition game in August 1912, he stopped with his wife to help three men who appeared to need assistance. When he stopped, they reached in Cobb's car and began to beat him. Cobb got out to fight back. The traditional story has always been that one of the men slashed Cobb's back with a knife, and then he chased one man into a dead end alley and beat him into unconsciousness, possibly even killing him, with the butt of his revolver. He is supposed to have gone to Syracuse and gone 2-for-3 the next day playing with a bloody wound on his back. Doug Roberts has determined ("Ty Cobb Did Not Commit Murder," The National Pastime 16 (1996), 25-28) that that did not actually happen that way. There is no police report or coroner's office report at all from that time of anyone being beaten about the face with a pistol. Roberts says that the three men had been sent to beat up Cobb in retaliation for a fight Cobb had started earlier, and all three fled unharmed. Then Cobb went 2-4 at Syracuse the next day, having had a "painful but not dangerous" wound cauterized and bandaged by a Syracuse doctor. Sometimes, truth is less exciting than legend. Cobb did not kill any of these men or beat any of them within an inch of his life.

Goodspeak: there are no MLB rules against spousal abuse, child abuse, assault, invective, racial epithets or even assailing disabled patrons.

There is a rule in MLB which clearly states that NO ONE CAN WAGER ON BASEBALL.

In an earlier post you said that "Charlie Hustle needs to be exonerated." Well what the fuck does that mean? Sweep it under the rug? I hold the Hall of Fame with as much reverence as I hold the rule against betting on baseball.

GoodSpeak · August-12th-2003, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Schaumann
Goodspeak: there are no MLB rules against spousal abuse, child abuse, assault, invective, racial epithets or even assailing disabled patrons.

There is a rule in MLB which clearly states that NO ONE CAN WAGER ON BASEBALL.

In an earlier post you said that "Charlie Hustle needs to be exonerated." Well what the fuck does that mean? Sweep it under the rug? I hold the Hall of Fame with as much reverence as I hold the rule against betting on baseball.

Do you read what you're saying? Gambling is more reprehensible than abuse or assault??? And you have some issues about "sweeping under the rug" some betting? Seems to me MANY ballplayers have been "exonerated" for WORSE to get in the HOF. Gimme a break.

Buddy, go forward a few years to the Black Sox scandal, would you? And tell me what the rule was CHANGED from? Then fast forward to Bart Giamantti's landmark decision wherein they had to change the "rule" yet again to keep Rose out of the HOF.

You act as if this "Golden Rule" was stamped in granite or something. When, in fact, baseball changes the rules to fit their own needs and continue to do so on a regular basis.

see also;

Coming Apart At The Seams
by Peter Gammons [ESPN Baseball analyst]

Captain Hate · August-12th-2003, 06:20 PM

I can't improve on what MS and RBS said; in fact I may quote their posts for tomorrow's water-cooler conversation. Gordon, stop raising our blood pressure by posting spurious articles!!

GoodSpeak · August-12th-2003, 06:23 PM

Great thread, Gordon...brav-o ;-)

MRS · August-12th-2003, 07:43 PM

Since MLB was established there has ALWAYS been a rule against betting on baseball. Pete Rose broke it. You say that you want him exonerated? So. . .are we to presume that you, in light of all the empirical evidence germane, are firmly with Pete in denying any wrongdoing? He should be vindicated? This is laughable. Do you remember what Pete Rose was doing the very hour that his fate was promulgated by the late ABG?

. . .hawking autographed baseballs on QVC.

I am not mitigating the seriousness of abuse, assault, invective, et. al. I am saying that these are not acts illicit within MLB, and more importantly, of no concern to the HOF Induction Committee.

. . .and I'll pass on the Gammons chowderspeak.

Gordon B · August-12th-2003, 10:29 PM

I agree with everybody's comments except for those made by Goody. I'm hoping Rose falls short in the 2005 balloting.

Dr Dave · August-12th-2003, 10:34 PM

Charlie Hustle needs to be exonerated? Charlie Hustle has never even admitted wrongdoing. Screw him.

Ron Thorne · August-13th-2003, 05:11 AM

"Charlie Hustle" is an ignorant, whiny, arrogant, unrepenting jerk who created a major stain on one of my greatest loves ... baseball. Screw him and the horse he rode in on. I've watched, admired and met some incredibly wonderful baseball players who advanced the game and its tradition, but he's not one of them.

And, Rose is fu**ing goofy looking, to boot.

Thank you, RBS and Michael Schaumann!

Goody, did you notice Gordon's latest post?

Gordon B · August-13th-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Thorne

Goody, did you notice Gordon's latest post?

Why? I didn't say much and it wasn't personal.

GoodSpeak · August-13th-2003, 11:09 PM

Ron,

Pete Rose deserves to get in the HOF because of his achievements ON the playing field. Period.

NObody, count 'em, NObody has ever been elected to the HOF because of what he did OFF the field.

Not ever.

Never will be.

Pete Rose has earned his rightful place and I hope MLB has the guts to make it so.

IMO, it is absolutely hypocritical to believe otherwise.

Salvador Dali Lama · August-14th-2003, 01:44 AM

yeah totally goodspeak.

i mean shit, why should there ever be repercussions for one's actions?

motherfuck observing rules, pete rose could hit! yeah!

ah, the typical bitchmade logic of a pete rose fan.

pete rose can go to hell.

bobetterblues · August-14th-2003, 02:36 AM

Damn, the Rose haters are fierce. I'm personally a little torn on this issue, because I dont' have all the facts, and part of me wants to say fuck him, but the other says he deserves another chance after all these years.....

I think its funny because George Bush can lie, steal elections and many other things that are just as compromising to our democratic integrity as betting on baseball is to the integrity of baseball, but people don't hate Bush nearly as much.

Just goes to show you, don't fuck with baseball man.

You can go send out some 19 year olds and get them killed by practically defenseless Iraqi's in the name of who knows what evil rationalization, but don't you dare fuck with baseball man!

And we won't forgive your ass 20 years later!

Ron Thorne · August-14th-2003, 03:30 AM

Don't get me goin', Bo. George W. Bush can go suck on an old, yellow, funky jock strap of Pete Rose's for all I care.

I won't forgive Bush's ass for all the shit he's done, either. Never!

Neither of them has an ounce of integrity.

Brian Olewnick · August-14th-2003, 09:12 AM

Interesting article, at least to us statheads, on Rose's HOF-worthiness at:

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2200

Enforcer · August-14th-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Olewnick
Interesting article, at least to us statheads, on Rose's HOF-worthiness at:

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2200

Warm, fuzzy memories for me. A simpler time, when I knew more about baseball and committed more statistical information to memory than probably anyone on this half of the earth. Then f**king life got in the way.

Goddamn this stupid life.

Larry