MLB Hot Stove 2007-2008

bostontricky · September-30th-2007, 09:37 PM

Larry: Ilitch have anyone up his sleeve? I'd be surprised to see Rogers back. (Or Todd Jones, for that matter)

Jazz Purist: OK, how's your team the prohibitive favorites in the NL East next year? Please include a player-by-player analysis your roster vs. the Mets in your remarks.

Goodz: Who's the number 4 and 5 starters next year? More importantly: how do you jack up the offense without signing anymore thirty-five year old players?

Dolan: How the hell are the Royales going to make it to .500 if Liriano's back at full strength for the Twinkies?

Crawjo: What the hell?!

GoodSpeak · September-30th-2007, 10:33 PM

A little early, ain't it?

bostontricky · September-30th-2007, 10:42 PM

I dunno, didn't someone fire one of these up before the end of the regular season last year? (I'm surprised Crawjo didn't start one up in August.)

Still, twenty-three teams are going golfing tomorrow, and someone else is joining them at tomorrow night. Never too early to start planning ahead, especially when your team needs a lot of work. And I'm not fighting the Second Battle of Matt Cain's Excellence in the middle of the World Series thread...

Jon Abbey · September-30th-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

Still, twenty-three teams are going golfing tomorrow, and someone else is joining them at tomorrow night.

there are only 30 teams in MLB.

bostontricky · September-30th-2007, 11:40 PM

Yes. And I'm so goddamned tired I can't a) come up with a snappy answer and link to a Photoshopped picture of Manny Ramirez' face superimposed over one of Rodney Dangerfield's outfits from Caddyshack or b) develop a Goodspeakian tic, go back and edit my original post, plead ignorance, and insult everyone else on the thread six ways until a week from next Tuesday while continuing my delusion that 23 teams are indeed golfing tomorrow.

I should have known when I had trouble doing the fucking math that I should have just given up and gone to bed.

The answer is 20 teams are golfing tomorrow, except for the Mets, who will be (insert your own punchline here) instead.

- - - -

Here's one for Our Boy in Wisco, from BP's Will Carroll:

Quote:

Dear White Sox,

We’re sorry that we were right. Better luck battling through next year.

Your pal,

PECOTA

P.S. Phil Nevin says hi.

Chris - what's on the plate for the Pale Hose?

Scott Dolan · October-1st-2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoTrix

Dolan: How the hell are the Royales going to make it to .500 if Liriano's back at full strength for the Twinkies?

Hahahaha.......

You break out the salt nice and early, don't you?

Oy.....I don't know. My head is still spinning from all the mindless chatter going on over at the fan forum.

There is going to be so much change as far as the manager and coaches are concerned, and they fell far short of the 72-74 wins I had predicted (as did many who keep up with the Royals), that I'm not sure .500 is possible next season.

Once Buddy announced his "retirement" to be some kind of bizarre lackey for Moore this team completely came apart at the seams. The starting rotation is still a major concern. Moore will likely make some moves to shore that up during the off season, and there has always been talk of moving Soria into the rotation (which I think would be a mistake, and I think Brotherman would agree). Grienke will move back to the pen. And Mike Barnett HAS to go. We've got some good young bats, but he seems to drain the soul out of every last one of them. His transformation of Teahen this year from a 25 HR hitter to a guy with seemingly less power than Pena Jr. should pretty much bear this out.

Gordon and Butler should both be much better next year, and hopefully Grudz will stick around for '08. Brazell may also come up next year. I believe he finished out the season leading the minors in homers this year.

Aside from that, I haven't kept up with them as much over the past couple of weeks due to my fantasy football addiction. It is no longer a team in need of rebuilding, and that's good to see. But now they need direction. And that may take awhile.

Jon Abbey · October-1st-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Greinke will move back to the pen.

really? why did they put him back in the rotation to end the year then? I'd think he'd be your #3 guy behind Meche and Bannister.

Scott Dolan · October-1st-2007, 02:09 AM

Right now there is talk (most recently in the KC Star [local fishwrap]) of trying to set up some kind of trade concerning DeJesus and D. Willis. If that does indeed happen, though I'm not holding my breath, he'll definitely occupy one of those three spots. And Moore is much more interested in Buckner and Hochevar (though maybe Davies instead) being in the rotation. That would definitely leave Grienke as the odd man out. And likely for the better since he really dominated from the pen this year, and was actually quite happy there.

Couple that with the fact that Moore has been talking about moving Soria into the rotation, and.......

You'd likely have to live around here and be more familiar with the inner workings, but Moore doesn't like any pitchers with Allard Bairds stink on them.

So, taking all of these factors into consideration, I don't see Grienke in the rotation. If Willis isn't a possibility, some other lefty will likely be sought. I seriously doubt Moore will want to go with a complete righty rotation.

Scott Dolan · October-1st-2007, 02:16 AM

Oh, and Grienke and Duck came back in because JDLR and Perez were
injured.

Jon Abbey · October-1st-2007, 02:37 AM

Dontrelle was awful this year, but he'd still fetch a pretty hefty trade package, I think.

Chris D · October-1st-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

Chris - what's on the plate for the Pale Hose?

They'll have to make up their minds on Uribe quickly (they hold a $5 million option). They might dangle Garland, but I doubt they'd get value. Gavin Floyd threw really well the last month, and he's out of options.

They need to rebuild the bullpen. They might go after Hunter or Rowand, but I doubt they'll sign them. Fields will be in left if Crede can make it all the way back. Don't know what they'll do with Jerry Owens, who put up one of the weakest .267s in history. Richar will likely stay at second.

A lot of this season's failure lies at the feet of Konerko, Dye and the bullpen. They have a pretty strong rotation and a great closer in Jenks, so it's not like the cupboard is completely bare. After their last season this bad (1989), they came back to win 90 games.

Scott Dolan · October-1st-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

Dontrelle was awful this year, but he'd still fetch a pretty hefty trade package, I think.

That's why I said I wouldn't hold my breath. Talk is of DeJesus and a middling prospect. DeJesus would make a good fit for them, but I don't see them letting Willis go for that. It would be w win-win trade, but I agree with you on the price.

Surfer · October-1st-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

Dontrelle was awful this year, but he'd still fetch a pretty hefty trade package, I think.

I was in the airport yesterday when I saw him hit that triple. He's such an exciting player, he'll bounce back next year. They fucked with his delivery, not sure why.

GoodSpeak · October-1st-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

Goodz: Who's the number 4 and 5 starters next year? More importantly: how do you jack up the offense without signing anymore thirty-five year old players?

#4 and #5 starters? Well, I'd figure Zito in one of those two spots....maybe even Cain. Zito's no ace. Lincecum is #1, for sure. Kevin Correia had a nice outing a few days ago as did Tyler Walker and this new kid Blackley [sic]. I really think a pick up of a good seasoned pitcher is a direction they need to go, as well.

First of all I think they should make a serious bid for A-Rod [assuming the rumors about the Cubs inking him aren't true].

Secondly, they need some hitters for the middle of the line-up....age isn't necessarily the issue but BAs are.

Lastly, the bullpen just plain sucks. They need to go out and get somebody who can actually hold the lead. Maybe a bonafide closer, too?

Chris D · October-1st-2007, 02:22 PM

Written in March, by yours truly: "I really don't know what to make of the White Sox. They could win 72 or 92."

Final record: 72-90.

crawjo · October-1st-2007, 02:36 PM

My prediction is that Baltimore will be very busy this offseason. They want to sign a veteran starting pitcher to go behind Bedard, they are looking for a setup man and a closer, and they are probably going to go after one big bat. And they'll probably come up short, too.

Tejada will be traded, Cabrera will not return to the starting rotation, and they have to figure out what they are doing in left field and center field, if they want to bring back Patterson and go after Dunn or do something else.

So tentatively I'd say of the players on the current roster, next year we will see:

C Ramon Hernandez (although if he plays the way he did this year, Wieters could take his place by midseason)
1B/DH Kevin Millar and Aubrey Huff
2B Brian Roberts
3B Melvin Mora (although he could be pushed out by Scott Moore)
SS Luis Hernandez
LF ??
CF ??
RF Nick Markakis

SP Erik Bedard
SP Jeremy Guthrie
SP Adam Loewen
SP ??
SP ??
(The fifth spot could go to either Burres or Cabrera, or somebody else)

As for the bullpen, the only guys who were around at the end of this year that I expect to see next year are Burres (if he's not a starter), Rocky Cherry, Jim Hoey, Jamie Walker and Chad Bradford. Everybody else will be different.

bostontricky · October-1st-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

#4 and #5 starters? Well, I'd figure Zito in one of those two spots....maybe even Cain. Zito's no ace. Lincecum is #1, for sure. Kevin Correia had a nice outing a few days ago as did Tyler Walker and this new kid Blackley [sic]. I really think a pick up of a good seasoned pitcher is a direction they need to go, as well.

To what extent do you continue to entreat Zito as the nominal #1 starter due to the monetary situation? For another year, just to keep the heat off and let Cain and Lincecum develop further? Because I'm certainly looking at this team as at least a year away.

I'd keep Zito-Cain-Lincecum-Correa in the rotation, and either sign a #4 type for a modest amount, or hold an open audtion for the 5 spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

First of all I think they should make a serious bid for A-Rod [assuming the rumors about the Cubs inking him aren't true].

Secondly, they need some hitters for the middle of the line-up....age isn't necessarily the issue but BAs are.

You're going to need more than A-Rod: everyone on the team (besides Bonds, obviously) except Randy Winn had an OPS below league average, and Winn was only barely above. Find out who's got incredible gloves and deal with their offense; find out if you have a Juan Pierre-type who despite lackluster production can bring a bit more to the table, and just cut the rest of the guys free. Klesko, bye. Durham, bye. Sign the second coming of Matt Stairs. Getting Bonds out of LF is bound to help the pitching staff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

Lastly, the bullpen just plain sucks. They need to go out and get somebody who can actually hold the lead. Maybe a bonafide closer, too?

Maybe in 2009. I'd keep Hennesey as the closer, spend my money on offense. Giants' bullpen ERA in 2007: 4.10 (Starters: 4.24).

- - -
From the other thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

But I also think Cain shot himself in the foot more often than not by putting his team in a hole early in the game [the game-by-game summaries of all his starts bear this out....not interested in rehashing this again].

Urggggg. Please define "putting his team in a hole" and "early in the game". because you make it sound the Giants' offense was impossibly burdened by being down by a couple of runs in the second inning.

On second thought, maybe they were.

GoodSpeak · October-1st-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

To what extent do you continue to entreat Zito as the nominal #1 starter due to the monetary situation? For another year, just to keep the heat off and let Cain and Lincecum develop further? Because I'm certainly looking at this team as at least a year away.

I'd keep Zito-Cain-Lincecum-Correa in the rotation, and either sign a #4 type for a modest amount, or hold an open audtion for the 5 spot.

Zito needs to be demoted to at least the #3 spot.

He performed well below expectations and he needs to earn his way back into the #1 spot. Like I said, he's obviously no ace.

And let's not forget about the dead solid Noah Lowry as a possible #4 or #5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

You're going to need more than A-Rod: everyone on the team (besides Bonds, obviously) except Randy Winn had an OPS below league average, and Winn was only barely above. Find out who's got incredible gloves and deal with their offense; find out if you have a Juan Pierre-type who despite lackluster production can bring a bit more to the table, and just cut the rest of the guys free. Klesko, bye. Durham, bye. Sign the second coming of Matt Stairs. Getting Bonds out of LF is bound to help the pitching staff.

You're right....A-Rod can't save this team by himself, but he can provide the badly need spark and leadership. Ortmeier, Schierholtz, Davis, Lewis and the rookie call-up Eugenio Velez looked pretty darn good over the weekend so I'm thinkin' the hitters are already there. Keep Winn, Roberts and Durham [I don't think we kick him to the curb just yet....one down year in an otherwise sterling career is worth a second look] then toss Felix, Frandsen, Klesko and put A-Rod in the number 4 hole and you've got some hitting to be reckoned with, IMHO.

They still need to fish around for another hitter, but IMHO the pitching staff/bullpen in particular needs the most work/help/attention/life support.

I mean, you're beating the [hated] dodgers in the 10th on Saturday only to have the Arson Squad give up the winning runs? That has been the problem for the past three years with these guys. Ask any [real] Giants fan and they will just cringe at the mention of the word: Bullpen. They suck, BoTrick. Ask any of us Giants fans.

In fact, ask me....g'head. I dare you.

Grrrrrr

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

Maybe in 2009. I'd keep Hennesey as the closer, spend my money on offense. Giants' bullpen ERA in 2007: 4.10 (Starters: 4.24).

I dunno.

Brian Wilson did pretty well this season, but Hennesey as a closer?

He just doesn't have the attitude and confidence of a real closer, IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

From the other thread:

Urggggg. Please define "putting his team in a hole" and "early in the game". because you make it sound the Giants' offense was impossibly burdened by being down by a couple of runs in the second inning.

On second thought, maybe they were.

It wasn't an "impossible burden", BoTrick. But the constant need for a come-from-behind win wears thin and fast on a team. Especially one that struggles at the plate.

Giants needed him to throw a quality game early.....not some innings later once he finds his groove.

Clearly, Matt Cain needs to step it up a bit if he wants to stay in the starting rotation.

bostontricky · October-1st-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

Clearly, Matt Cain needs to step it up a bit if he wants to stay in the starting rotation.

Tell you what. Barring any sort of injury, I'll bet you $20 Cain's the opening day starter. I'll give you the entire field except Zito, including any free agent signings the Giants pick up between now and April.

(If Zito's the opening day starter, neither of us wins - literally and figuratively)

GoodSpeak · October-1st-2007, 10:23 PM

Sucker's bet, BoTrick.

I'll give you even money, straight up, against Cain being the starter on opening day.

Deal?

GoodSpeak · October-1st-2007, 10:25 PM

Lincecum will start.

Bank on it.

GoodSpeak · October-1st-2007, 10:27 PM

BTW...I remind you that the Giants face the [hated] dodgers and in LaLa Land for the first three games in 2008.

So! Still wanna take that bet....?

bostontricky · October-1st-2007, 11:00 PM

What, Cain vs. Lincecum? I'd take that...

Chris D · October-2nd-2007, 10:47 AM

I've got it on pretty reliable word that Terry Ryan was ready to continue as Twins' GM but gave up the ghost after Johan Santana turned on him and called him out in public.

GoodSpeak · October-2nd-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

What, Cain vs. Lincecum? I'd take that...

No, no, no....

I'm saying Cain won't start the first game of the 2008 season. If you're saying he will, then it's a legit bet.

sheesh

bostontricky · October-2nd-2007, 01:43 PM

I'm not confident enough in Sabean to think he's not going to be whispering in Bochy's ear "we're paying him a billion dollars, he's going be the opening day starter..." Why would put $20 on the line if I think Sabean's retarded enough to do something like that?

I thought the original proposition was fair enough, especially since neither of us thinks Zito ought to be the opening day starter.

I'll take Cain. I was giving you everyone else, except Zito (since neither of us thinks he fits the job). Lincecum starts, you win $20. If the Giants wind up with Pedro Martinez and he starts on Opening Day, you win the $20. If Juan Marichal comes back and makes the start, $20 for Goody. Just not Zito.

GoodSpeak · October-2nd-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

I'm not confident enough in Sabean to think he's not going to be whispering in Bochy's ear "we're paying him a billion dollars, he's going be the opening day starter..." Why would put $20 on the line if I think Sabean's retarded enough to do something like that?

I thought the original proposition was fair enough, especially since neither of us thinks Zito ought to be the opening day starter.

I'll take Cain. I was giving you everyone else, except Zito (since neither of us thinks he fits the job). Lincecum starts, you win $20. If the Giants wind up with Pedro Martinez and he starts on Opening Day, you win the $20. If Juan Marichal comes back and makes the start, $20 for Goody. Just not Zito.

Too many moving parts, BoTrick.

I'll take a straight up bet: Cain starts, you win. Cain doesn't start, I win.

And yes, the pressure to put in Zito will be a factor.....but the way I figure it that's the chance you take.

Tell you what....how about this: Take the above offer and if Zito starts all bets are off. Deal?

bostontricky · October-2nd-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

Tell you what....how about this: Take the above offer and if Zito starts all bets are off. Deal?

Wasn't that the original proposal?

I take Cain, you get everyone else.
Zito starts, all bets are off.

Fine with me.

GoodSpeak · October-2nd-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostontricky

Wasn't that the original proposal?

I take Cain, you get everyone else.
Zito starts, all bets are off.

Fine with me.

Done and done.

I'm sure that's what you meant now that I scroll back....I just needed to hear it in language I understand relative to betting.

BTW, I'll take my $20 in trade, too.....a CD, perhaps?

Chris D · October-3rd-2007, 05:51 PM

Walt Jocketty out in St. Louis. Wish MRS were here to give the real reasons why.