How can the Democrats blow it?

[RBS]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-k...a_b_85635.html

Oh boy.

[Gary Sisco]

This whole bit about the convention is ridiculous, to me. It used to be that that's what conventions were for, choosing who would be the candidate.

Never mind the convention. There's one thing that they can do to lose this election and that's to run Ms Clintstone.

There's a reason why the repub loudmouths are drooling over running against her. She's their only hope of keeping the White House. They're lost Congress already and won't get it back and they know it.

[rollhead]

I have my seat belt on.

I expect us to have another eight years of a Republican in the White House.

How old old will McCain be in 2016? 79? 80?

At any rate, we will have plenty of time to figure out that he isn't a "liberal."

And if we don't get Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi out of their leadership positions, we won't have anyone to serve as a counter-balance to another eight years of right-wing "leadership."

[hornplayer]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

This whole bit about the convention is ridiculous, to me. It used to be that that's what conventions were for, choosing who would be the candidate.

Never mind the convention. There's one thing that they can do to lose this election and that's to run Ms Clintstone.

There's a reason why the repub loudmouths are drooling over running against her. She's their only hope of keeping the White House. They're lost Congress already and won't get it back and they know it.

and the other evening Ari Fleischer was visibly licking his chops saying as much when asked which candidate the Repubs would prefer.

and I DON'T hope she runs as Veep with him, either. Suicidal, imho.

[Gary Sisco]

Nah, she has way too large an ego to be veep.

Plus, no one wants a co-veepdom.

It's time both of them had real jobs, anyway.

[Al in NYC]

It's going to be all to easy to blow it to McCain. Now that he's finally been able to overcome his opposition within the Republican party he's going to make a formidable candidate.

Pelosi and Reed are a disgrace.

[clinthopson]

Hill's baggage will be the target for the GOP swiftboaters. That's one of the reasons why Obama is the better choice.

Of course, if Hill would act like a real Democrat, she'd look a lot better.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

What...you think she looks like a real Republican instead?


Yeah. Right.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Clint,

Obama's not immune to swift boating. There's his church's web-site and pastor. There's that land deal he has with some shady Chicago wheeler-dealer (Whitewater II?).

My point is the Republicans are really good at this shit. Jesus Christ could return to Earth and they'd find a way to Swift Boat him (that turn the other cheek shit is so wussy, liberal minded).

[Gary Sisco]

True enough but they'd have to learn some new tricks and they're old dogs. They can attack-dog Clintons in their sleep. They've never stopped.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Wozniak

What...you think she looks like a real Republican instead?


Yeah. Right.

Well, if you weren't such an idiot, you might know something about Hillary's history as a "liberal."

The "liberal" Senator you love to hate supported the war in Iraq, pandered to the right by ratcheting up the confrontation with Iran, was guilty of gross pandering to the right once more by sponsoring an anti-First Amendment Flag Burning bill (and, yes, I am a veteran), established her "bona fides" as a "progressive" in Arkansas by working for the uber-establishment Rose Law firm, which represented Tyson Foods and Wal Mart, among other regressive, anti-union and polluting companies.

As an anti-environmentalist, I am sure you know of Tyson's pristine environmental record, which Hillary Clinton's law firm defended. Tyson has been involved in several lawsuits related to air and water pollution.

In addition, Clinton has as her top campaign advisor, Mark Penn, a lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry and certified union buster. Among other things, Penn's PR firm, according to the Nation magazine, "defended Procter and Gamble's Olestra from charges that it caused anal leakage, blamed Texaco's bankruptcy on greedy jurors and market-tested genetically modified foods for Monsanto."

In 2001, Clinton's closest advisor was named CEO of Burson-Marsteller, a firm, which among other things, has represented everyone from the Argentine military junta to Union Carbide after the 1984 Bhopal disaster in India, in which thousands were killed when toxic fumes were released by one of its plants, to Royal Dutch Shell, which has been accused of massive human rights violations in Nigeria. B-M pioneered the use of pseudo-grassroots front groups, known as "astroturfing," to wage stealth corporate attacks against environmental and consumer organizations. It set up the National Smokers Alliance on behalf of Philip Morris to fight tobacco regulation in the early 1990s. Its current clients include major players in the finance, pharmaceutical and energy industries."

In 2006, with Mark Penn at the helm, the company gave 57 percent of its campaign contributions to Republican candidates.

You might think that Hillary Clinton is a "liberal, "but as someone who has known the Clintons (especially Bill) since I was a reporter covering the state Capitol in Arkansas in the early 1980s, I know them both well enough that the only people they represent are themselves. The only policies they like are those that will get them campaign contributions and elected.

While they might like to take nice pictures with working class people, minorities and the disabled, I wouldn't count on seeing any of them at their dining room table -- as long as they don't think there would be something in it for themselves.

The proof is in the pudding as far as I am concerned, and someone who works for, and panders to, the most regressive forces in the country is not a "progressive," or a liberal, but is a "Republican," because "regression" is what puts the "R" in Republican.

[larrycohen]

I just keep reminding myself that no matter who wins - republican, democrat or zoo animal - we'll be better off next year.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

She lives and dies by the polls like her withering husband. If it weren't for those pesky American citizens and their voices of desent Hillarycare would have ruined the country by now.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by larrycohen

I just keep reminding myself that no matter who wins - republican, democrat or zoo animal - we'll be better off next year.

Yessss! Thanks for putting this in perspective.

[Gary Sisco]

Larry -- I look at it like, Whoever wins, we'll get hosed. But at least it will be a new hosing, I hope. We've already been hosed by Bushwits and Clintstones enough to last me a few lifetimes.

[LennyH]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

This whole bit about the convention is ridiculous, to me. It used to be that that's what conventions were for, choosing who would be the candidate.

The problem, though, is that McCain will be running for President while the Dems spend the time between Puerto Rico and the convention trying to figure out who will get the nomination.

The late convention schedule backfires in a situation like this.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

Maybe the left can change the rules of the game in the 4th quarter like they tried to do with the Florida Supreme Court in 2000.

[Gary Sisco]

It's still traditional.

What's the purpose of the convention? If you have a candidate, you have a candidate.

To write a platform? Why? No one reads it, no one follows it, no one expects anyone to, there's no way to hold anyone accountable to it, regardless.

[Gary Sisco]

Anyone remember Clintstone's speech in the convention before the one that nominated him the first time?

Rock a mike?

When he finally got around to saying "In conclusion..." the conventioneers broke out into wild applause.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

That speech put Bill on the map. It was long though.

What's this evil "left" Jeff keeps talking about? When's the last time the "left" ran anything in this country?

[Gary Sisco]

He's mad, D. We just ignore him.

By the way, you've been in and out in recent years, and I don't know how much you've missed or not, but I don't consider myself a leftist anymore -- not for a long while, now -- or a rightist either.

I saw a reference somewhere to somebody, I can't remember, but he was called a left conservative. I kind of like that, and, at least if words are to carry their historical meaning (and they do with me if no one else), it's more accurate than my own "libertarian with a conscience."

In this campaign, I'm more wanting some new, hopefully younger faces to have a shot at things. Much moreso than I am rooting for anyone or anyone's politics, never mind party. It's time for the boomers to start their fade, far's I'm concerned. They've created a big enough mess as it is.

Obama is the man from that perspective.

Plus, I'd be very glad to see the people elect a black president in my lifetime. A black woman would be even better but I'll take what I can get after the last 28 years of Bushwits and Clintstones.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

By the way, you've been in and out in recent years, and I don't know how much you've missed or not, but I don't consider myself a leftist anymore -- not for a long while, now -- or a rightist either.

The change in medication has had quite an effect on you.

[clinthopson]

The left is evil because they may take some money away from the poor little wealthy to fix the messes that the righties have got us into.

The righties have fought against Civil Rights, women's rights, universal health care, started or escalated unnecessary wars, raped the environment and made ideological rigidity their core belief.

The only Republican in the last 100 years that didn't do huge damage was Ike and he had lots of faults.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

You forgot to mention the righties gang-rapping puppies and creating AIDS to kill blacks in Africa and gays around the world.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Gary, I always thought of you as a contrarian, or the Vermont Dude.

99 percent of the folks (including me) haven't read enough history to know what's left, right, or in between. Those labels are just PR talk these days.

[clinthopson]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Wozniak

You forgot to mention the righties gang-rapping puppies and creating AIDS to kill blacks in Africa and gays around the world.

Yep, Reagan really took AIDS seriously.

How do you rap a puppy? Play them some Ice Tea?

[Scott Dolan]

Hahahahahaha.......................


Goddamn Hoppy pulls off a three smiley!!!

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

In this campaign, I'm more wanting some new, hopefully younger faces to have a shot at things. Much moreso than I am rooting for anyone or anyone's politics, never mind party. It's time for the boomers to start their fade, far's I'm concerned. They've created a big enough mess as it is.

Obama is the man from that perspective.

Plus, I'd be very glad to see the people elect a black president in my lifetime. A black woman would be even better but I'll take what I can get after the last 28 years of Bushwits and Clintstones.

I think that the biggest obstacle to the Democrats taking an easy win is that Hillary Clinton feels that she deserves to win. She seems to have had the Big Chair in her sights since she was in college.
She won't give up her personal dream that easily, even if it means that the Democrats will lose the election to a newly dusted off and re-furbished John McCain.
The Republicans know how to battle a Clinton.
Hillary Clinton does not have the same appeal as did her husband and he's not running for President.
Bill Clinton could have committed his indescretions on the steps of Congress and would have survived.
His wife doesn't have anywhere near that charisma.
The Republicans don't know how to defeat Barack Obama, if he is the candidate. He appeals across the board, not just in the African American community.
I think that even if Hillary Clinton sees with her own eyes, finally, that those who won't vote for her are not mysogynistic, they just don't want to vote for her, she will battle for the nomination til the bitter end anyway.
But, getting the nomination is not being elected President.
There is no prize for second place.

[groover]

Whomever gets the Dem. nom. is going to have to make a lot of secret promises to super-delegates at the convention. Politics as usual.

The Repubs already have a proven arsenal of anti-Hillary attacks, but they've been testing some new weapons that they hope will stop an Obama.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by groover

The Repubs already have a proven arsenal of anti-Hillary attacks, but they've been testing some new weapons that they hope will stop an Obama.

Exactly. The Republicans only have a generic arsenal to stop "an Obama."
The question will become, if he gets the Democratic nomination, can they come up with a brand-name arsenal.
Obama is not a special-interest candidate.
He has been very wise to appeal to everyone, not just one group of disgruntled voters who have been denied a voice.
Obama would be a much more formidable opponent, so I think the Republicans are praying that Clinton is the nominee.
This, IMO, is not about finally having a woman as President.
It's about whether the country wants another Clinton as President who will preserve the status quo.
The country seems to want anything but what has been done for the last eight years.
The Republicans seem to have only that Obama is black in their quiver. But, Obama is not presenting himself as a black candidate. He is presenting himself as an American for change.