Old February-18th-2008, 08:03 AM   #1
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Old February-18th-2008, 08:26 AM   #2
Gary Sisco
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One worry that isn't for me, not eating mammals.
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Old February-18th-2008, 08:35 AM   #3
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Back in 2002 Michael Pollan wrote an essay for The New York Times called "An Animal's Place" in which he told the story of PolyFace Farm, where animals are killed for their meat right out in the open, where customers can see it. Here's the relevant quote:

"Salatin's open-air abattoir is a morally powerful idea. Someone slaughtering a chicken in a place where he can be watched is apt to do it scrupulously, with consideration for the animal as well as for the eater. This is going to sound quixotic, but maybe all we need to do to redeem industrial animal agriculture in this country is to pass a law requiring that the steel and concrete walls of the CAFO's and slaughterhouses be replaced with . . . glass. If there's any new ''right'' we need to establish, maybe it's this one: the right to look."

I am reminded also of William Burroughs, and the meaning of "Naked Lunch": Really seeing what is on the end of the fork.
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Old February-18th-2008, 09:08 AM   #4
Jimmy Cantiello
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Old February-18th-2008, 09:14 AM   #5
Gary Sisco
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18 years, this time, Tippy, of not eating meat. I was ambivalent about it for years and stopped on and off. The on part was often due to a lack of local, quality grub.

I knew a family that raised free-range chicken (and other things) and did the slaughtering, plucking, and cleaning, right there on the spot. They put out word ahead of time for when they were going to do it, so you could buy what you wanted, really fresh, and freeze it for the winter or whatever. It makes for quite a morning.

Wacking a furry creature like that, contradictory or not, would make a bigger impression on people.
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Old February-18th-2008, 10:14 AM   #6
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Unfortunately for pescatarians, there are all sorts of dangers in seafood.
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Old February-18th-2008, 10:22 AM   #7
Gary Sisco
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I don't see much of that these days, Pete. Way beyond the budget.
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Old February-18th-2008, 11:12 AM   #8
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I, for one, eat meat, and have no delusions about how it gets to the table. Seeing the video on the news this morning has given me pause to consider where I buy my meat from now on, though. I just like it too much to give it up altogether. It's much easier nowadays to buy from reputable sources, although that usually jacks up the price, but that's the cost of not having to worry about eating some diseased meat, I guess. Wouldn't kill me to cut down on the amount I consume, anyway.

I also love (love love love) seafood. As Gary has pointed out, it's prety expensive nowadays, at least for the fresh stuff. Living on the coast, I've become more of a "seafood snob" than I used to be already. There's nothing like fresh seafood. Unfortunately, it appears we're outstripping the ocean's ability to provide a regular supply of fish, and we're also polluting the oceans, so we have the paradox of fresher product being potentially more hazardous to long term health.

There is an article in today's Cape Cod Times about how local fishermen are catching less because the "bait fish" are being over fished (warning, it's kinda' long):



Ocean's fish food disappearing
By Doug Fraser
STAFF WRITER
February 18, 2008 6:00 AM
CHATHAM — In recent years, Chatham fisherman Peter Taylor noticed that the haddock he'd been catching on Georges Banks disappeared after large herring vessels, some towing nets as wide across as a football field, started targeting that area.

He said prey species like haddock move into certain areas of Georges Bank when there are large schools of spawning herring. Cape fishermen, in turn, go there to catch the haddock.

"I've never gone through a year and seen this few herring," he said. "The amount of haddock we caught in that deep water also dropped. There was no doubt in our minds that there was a correlation between herring and what we catch."

It was a lesson that made a big impression on fishermen: no food, no fish.

"People have been fishing here for hundreds of years and they know that a healthy herring population is key to having other healthy fisheries," said Peter Baker, director of The Herring Alliance, a collaboration of environmental groups dedicated to reforming what they call "industrial" fishing by large herring vessels. The group is concerned the fishing power of these large vessels could bring on a collapse of herring stocks as the foreign factory fleet did back in the 1970s.



Raising the alarm
In December, the Marine Fish Conservation Network, comprising 200 environmental groups, fishing associations, aquariums and marine science organizations, raised the alarm on herring, mackerel, menhaden, squid and other species known collectively as forage fish. They want the National Marine Fisheries Service to give greater protection to forage species that serve as prey for many other fish.

They were especially concerned about the rapidly expanding aquaculture industry's dependence on these fish, an increasing number of which are ground up to produce pellets and fish oil to feed fish raised in aquaculture cages.

"We've created a demand and a need for this ... fishery that I don't think is sustainable," Kenneth Stump, a policy analyst for the Washington, D.C.-based Marine Fish Conservation Network, said of fish food for aquaculture.

A letter signed by 92 U.S. scientists, also released in December, urged the National Marine Fisheries Service to drastically reduce the catch of these forage species because of their importance to the ecosystem.

Forage species eat plankton and provide a vital link from that food source to the protein required by larger predator species.

Stump said he believes herring's role as prey is too important to allow large U.S. vessels to catch them. He advocates a return to a small-boat, inshore fishery. He said guaranteeing the availability of their food will also help commercially valuable fish like cod to recover from decades of overfishing.

But NMFS scientists counter that well-managed fish stocks would be sustainable no matter what their ultimate use.

"If we're harvesting conservatively, we should be able to avoid the large swings in prey population that could cascade through the ecosystem," said Steven Murawski, NMFS director of scientific programs, and a chief scientific adviser.



No easy answers
Predator-prey relationships are complex, and some changes might not yield expected results, Murawski said. For instance, when the foreign fleet decimated New England's herring stocks in the 1960s and '70s, other prey species like sand lances prospered and predators like cod simply switched to them. Murawski pointed out that forage species like herring also eat the eggs and larvae of cod and other larger fish, and that an unfished or lightly fished stock could actually have a negative impact on rebuilding those valuable species.

Stump said it was dangerous to rely on fishing to achieve balance in an ecosystem, and that preserving species that form the base of the ocean food chain was critical.

"We're pretty foolish to presume we have to remove this amount to preserve the balance, given the lack of science," he said.

"We have done a fair bit to understand the role of prey species in the food web," countered Michael Fogarty, an NMFS ecosystem scientist.

NMFS and regional fishery management councils have laid the foundation for ecosystem management by gathering data on fish habitat and by extensive work by regional science centers on predator-prey relationships, Murawski said. Ecosystem management pilot programs are also being drafted. Additionally, fishery management scientists already incorporate natural mortality into their estimates of how much of a species can be caught each year without seriously impacting the population, he said.

"We need to be cautious, but that doesn't mean you don't harvest at all," said University of New Hampshire professor Andrew Rosenberg, the former director of NMFS Northeast region and chairman of the U.S. Census of Marine Life. Of more importance is making sure that there is enough prey in areas of the ocean that are critical to commercial fish stocks, Rosenberg said.

Doug Fraser can be reached at dfraser@capecodonline.com.



Forage fish and aquaculture

Worldwide, wild fish stocks were being caught and fed to caged fish in an aquaculture industry that grew threefold between 1992 and 2003.


It takes five pounds of fish to produce one pound of fish meal.
Fish meal supplying aquacultural and agricultural needs accounted for almost 40 percent of the fish landings globally in 2002.




Source: Marine Fish Conservation Network
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Old February-18th-2008, 11:34 AM   #9
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Yep. Most of my life "calamari" was called squid, and it was used for bait. Many of the fishes sold in supermarkets today are fish -- eg, tapia or orange roughy -- that are fished now because the common fish of the past have been fished too hard, almost out in some cases. There used to be in my younger days so many cod that going out for a day's fishing would make for some damned tired arms. Last few times I went, catching one decent-sized cod was about the best we could help for. One time we were catching so many off the Maine coast, that I reeled in and stopped for beer break. The captain saw me and said, "What are you doing?" Having a break, I said. "Bullshit! Fish, man!" The catch they come in with is what generates customers choosing their boat. He didn't want to hear anything about taking breaks.
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Old February-18th-2008, 11:39 AM   #10
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Tippy -- They wrung their necks, snap. Pretty much instant death. People too most of the time, that high up the spine. Plucked them and gutted them, voila. There was some quick dunking in boiling water as one of the steps, but I don't remember exactly. Must've been a step in plucking, which ain't easy if you just start pulling on feathers. That was early 90s.

My great late pal Jeffrey, one of my two musical heroes and mentors, was more than wild. Our hq in northern Nevada was a real western saloon -- the movie "The Misfits" was filmed in that town and several movies used the saloon -- in the front but had a pricey, nice Italian restaurant in back. Jeffrey was a superstar in that district and was nearly always forgiven for his penchant for mischief and outrage, but he went beyond our woman pal who owned the place's forgiveness scale when he walked into the restaurant one night with a live chicken under his arm. Vita yelled, "Jeffrey! You can't be in here with a live chicken!!"

Jeffrey said, "I can't?" and bit the head off the chicken, then tossed it up in the air, blood spurting, flopping around on the floor. He was punk before they had a word for it.
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Old February-18th-2008, 11:41 AM   #11
jesus marion joseph
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The Lobster Pot in Provincetown used to have an annual "Trash Fish" dinner, where the chef would feature fish that used to be considered by product of the catch of "real" fish like haddock and cod, and would simply be thrown overboard, dead and unused. Skate wings (popular as bait for lobster pots) pollock, that type of thing.
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Old February-18th-2008, 11:42 AM   #12
Gary Sisco
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Yeah, pollock used to be known as fish sticks.

We used to call them stick fish when we caught one.
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Old February-18th-2008, 10:18 PM   #13
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I'll take my chances.

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