Tibet

[Jazzzoline]

I asked a friend (USA citizen) who works in China what was going on about Tibet. I was telling him about countries thinking about 2008 olympics boycot.

As he didn't know much, actually he wasn't replying at all:
"You know about Tibet, right"
"..oh.. yeah"

Sheeesh.

[Paul B]

It's genocide, pure and simple. But hey, the U.S. can't be expected to disrupt its huge business opportunities in China over some dead Tibetans.

[Al in NYC]

And now, following the rioting (really in many ways more like an insurrection) in Lhasa, and the resulting tons of nasty nationalistic propaganda in the Chinese media, ethnic Tibetans throughout China are in danger.

[cookie]

One of my neighbors is Tibetan (Ithaca has a significant Tibetan refugee community). They have a big sign on their truck asking people to get involved and boycott the Beijing Olympics. I would love to see the US boycott the Olympics. If they won't do it officially, wouldn't it be great to see individual athletes step up and say they won't participate? Doubt it will happen, but I think it should.

Hell, they confiscate the BIBLE over there. Many of our dealings with China are most hypocritcal. Why aren't we starting a war to bring *those* folks democracy. Oh, I forgot: we like their cheap goods and outsourcing our labor to underpaid workers. There's also a lot of them so they would be hard to defeat.
That, and there are no oil fields. We too often look the other way when confronted with the Chinese government's human rights violations. Disheartening.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by cookie

One of my neighbors is Tibetan (Ithaca has a significant Tibetan refugee community). They have a big sign on their truck asking people to get involved and boycott the Beijing Olympics. I would love to see the US boycott the Olympics. If they won't do it officially, wouldn't it be great to see individual athletes step up and say they won't participate? Doubt it will happen, but I think it should.

Hell, they confiscate the BIBLE over there. Many of our dealings with China are most hypocritcal. Why aren't we starting a war to bring *those* folks democracy. Oh, I forgot: we like their cheap goods and outsourcing our labor to underpaid workers. There's also a lot of them so they would be hard to defeat.
That, and there are no oil fields. We too often look the other way when confronted with the Chinese government's human rights violations. Disheartening.

Think "Rwanda" Cookie. I still can see Clinton at the 10 year anniversary of the massacre of over 800,00 people in 100 days saying, regretfully, "If we'd only known." Well he did know. Romeo Dallaire, who led the U.N. force, there only to witness the signing of the peace agreement, begged Clinton and other world leaders to intervene. There was no national interest in Rwanda by any countries, except Belgium, who took out their nationals as soon as the killing started and they were in danger. So people died.
If there's no "national interest" there will be no help, though I'd love to be wrong. Humanitarian concerns are often cited for intervention in foreign countries, but how many are only to stop innocent people from being terrorized and killed?

[Jesse]

Tibet is a huge topic, one close to my heart.

I have worked locally with the Tibetan community since 1994, when the first wave of refugees were arriving. The Dalai Lama designated Minneapolis as a hospitable city to settle in, and we now enjoy the second largest Tibetan community in North America, after N.Y.

The current situation in Lhasa is monitored fairly well by Radio Free Asia (http://www.rfa.org/english/). The usual media black outs of course prevent anything like full coverage. The escalation in Tibetan "rioting" was predictable to anyone following the 60 year siege and occupation by the Chinese government. It will get worse as we approach 8.8.08. The Tibetan people rarely get media coverage in Tibet, so the saturation of coverage for the Olympics will be important.
There are many great resources easily available for anyone interested in raising their awareness about Tibet's history, and current reality. I suggest starting with http://www.savetibet.org/.
I am a practitioner of Vajrayana buddhism, which comes from Tibet, so many of my immediate teachers and friends were born and educated there, or in exile in Dehra Dun and Dharamsala. They convey, of course, the heartbreak of the Sino-Tibetan symbiosis better than any policy analysis.
Paul B is correct in referring to the situation as genocide. While Tibet is hardly the sole example of the U.S. supporting regimes that commit such crimes, it is the current example, and one US citizens can do something about.
I am far from detached or objective about the Tibetan situation, though I have studied source materials from many perspectives. It is my opinion that Tibet will not achieve autonomy during this Dalai Lama's lifetime. This does not dissuade me in the least from staying informed about the developments there, assisting Tibetans here (who have actually befriended me and taught me more than I will ever be in a position to repay), and holding the aspiration for an eventually free Tibet. I think this last will come from internal reforms in China, largely fomented and carried out by the Chinese people.
For my great teachers Lama Migmar Tseten, Lama Kalsang, Her Eminence Jetsun Kushok, and His Holiness Sakya Trizin and the 14th Dalai Lama, I am grateful. I know they simply want to return home.

[Ron Thorne]

If I were an American Olympic athlete there's no way I'd participate in this year's Olympics in Beijing for two simple reasons.

• The air is unbreathable.
• The Chinese government is clearly out-of-control.

I would love to see many countries send China a profound message via economics by refusing to participate in the summer Olympics, but I don't see that happening.

Here's one organization who's attempting to send a message.

• Home
• Sign a Petition
• Create a Petition
• Log In

We, the Undersigned, endorse the following petition:

Stop China's Crackdown on Tibet

Target: The United Nations and Olympic Games Officials
Sponsor: Care2

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by patricia

If there's no "national interest" there will be no help, though I'd love to be wrong. Humanitarian concerns are often cited for intervention in foreign countries, but how many are only to stop innocent people from being terrorized and killed?

You're on the mark here. I'm currently reading Samantha Power's brilliant book "A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide." For all the bluster about freedom you hear from this country, America has never stepped in to stop genocide (and this is true even for WWII, where the slaughter of the Jews was not the reason we entered the war), and likely never will. This country is about the bottom line: business and other "national interests," and those will never be jeopardized by our government—Republican or Democrat—merely to stop the murder of innocents or the destruction of a culture.

The situation in China is particularly galling; one of the most repressive, brutal countries in the world gets away with whatever it wants because it's a huge source of potential profit for business. And China will be thumbing its nose at everybody with this Olympics, because they know nobody will make the hard call and pull out of a sponsorship or move ahead with a boycott. The bottom line is too important. Pathetic.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Ron Thorne

If I were an American Olympic athlete there's no way I'd participate in this year's Olympics in Beijing for two simple reasons.

• The air is unbreathable.
• The Chinese government is clearly out-of-control.

that's easy to say, but athlete's careers don't last that long, and from 2004 to 2012 is a long time. not saying you're wrong, just saying it's pretty easy to understand why there won't be many athletes doing this. also, why do you say 'American' above?

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

also, why do you say 'American' above?

Ummm ... because I'm an 'American'.

Obviously, I could have made the same statement without that word.

[Monte Smith]

I don't know where I heard it (maybe John Bolton?) but the idea is being floated that nations should boycott the opening ceremonies of the Olympics. This would not affect the athletics, but it would put a serious stink up the noses of the Communists in Beijing. The opening ceremonies are always crowded with vapid, propagandistic symbology. Well, not being there would be propagandistic symbology that said something. No one would be put out but the Chinese.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Ron Thorne

Ummm ... because I'm an 'American'.

Obviously, I could have made the same statement without that word.

and it would have made as much sense. you may be an American (the jury's still out on Alaska in my book, but let's leave that alone), but you're most certainly not an "American Olympic athlete".

[Gary Sisco]

Past week or so I've been listening to a field recordings CD "The Streets of Lhasa," in solidarity.

The only worse thing than getting stomped on is getting stomped on without fighting back.

Respect!

[Gary Sisco]

I was stationed on Iwo Jima with a guy who was training as a swimmer for the Olympics that the US boycotted, in Russia. He did two years of isolated duty, one on Iwo Jima and one on French Frigate Shoals, so he could swim and train without distractions.

Nope.

I don't know why anyone would want to do hard athletics in the kind of air I see in photos of China. I can't imagine doing distance running while breathing that partly oxygen.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

I don't know where I heard it (maybe John Bolton?) but the idea is being floated that nations should boycott the opening ceremonies of the Olympics. This would not affect the athletics, but it would put a serious stink up the noses of the Communists in Beijing. The opening ceremonies are always crowded with vapid, propagandistic symbology. Well, not being there would be propagandistic symbology that said something. No one would be put out but the Chinese.

Sarkozy has suggested a boycott of the nations for opening ceremony.

For America to protest against an illegal occupation sounds a bit shallow, imho.

[Surfer]

Agent Cooper explains Tibet

[Jesse]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

and it would have made as much sense. you may be an American (the jury's still out on Alaska in my book, but let's leave that alone), but you're most certainly not an "American Olympic athlete".

So, what's your beef, Jon? I never claimed to be an "American Olympic athlete".

What does my residing in Alaska have to do with anything?

[Jon Abbey]

the Alaska thing was a joke, my beef is with your use of the word "American" as an adjective. you're setting up a hypothetical, so I don't understand adding that as a qualifier. if you were a Tanzanian Olympic athlete, would you participate in the Olympics? the addition of the word "American" is pointless in your original post, hence my question.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

if you were a Tanzanian Olympic athlete, would you participate in the Olympics?

No.

I wouldn't participate if I were from Argentina or Zimbabwe, either.

[Jazzzoline]

Originally Posted by cookie

One of my neighbors is Tibetan (Ithaca has a significant Tibetan refugee community). They have a big sign on their truck asking people to get involved and boycott the Beijing Olympics. I would love to see the US boycott the Olympics. If they won't do it officially, wouldn't it be great to see individual athletes step up and say they won't participate? Doubt it will happen, but I think it should.

But I heard that the Olympics will bring in about 15,000 journalists and reporters. Which is a good thing.

[Jesse]

The focus will be on the games;the Tibetan protests will be a sidebar, and in China, non-existent. I met a Tibetan who languished in the notorious Drapchi prison for 14 years for possessing a photo of the Dalai Lama.

[Jazzzoline]

This is very sad. Peaceful people.

[Jesse]

This was my draw to the Tibetan community here-as much as it is a stereotype, a generalization, and will raise the hackles or eyebrows of skeptics, Tibetans are peaceful and generous and own an improbable energy distinct from most Americans. I have met several hundred Tibetans now and am always at ease in their company.

[Jesse]

The venerable Lamas Kalsang and Dorje, myself and wife Allie.

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Uli

For America to protest against an illegal occupation sounds a bit shallow, imho.

Indeed. America is really in no position to boycott anything.

[Brian Olewnick]

There's an added wrinkle as well, which I heard discussed a bit last night on Lehrer: As satisfying and morally right as a boycott would be, either of the opening ceremonies or the Olympics as a whole, one of the very likely reactions on the part of China would be increased violence against Tibetans in reprisal. As with many things, there doesn't seem to be an easy solution.

A question re: the idea of independence--Say you have a situation like Tibet's which, however sleazy the initial arrangement, all countries and the UN now accept as "just". At what point does the wish for independence attain moral justifiability? When >50% of its citizens desire it? Offhand, that would see fair to me. What if, as may well be the case now, you have a situation where approximately 1/3 of the populace want independence, a third don't and a third want a middle ground, a semi-autonomous state similar to Hong Kong or Macao? How do these things get resolved, especially when China holds the legal, if not moral, high ground? We tend to be (rightly) partial to independence whenever possible but that might not be the case, in practical terms, for some large portion of the individuals most directly affected.

[Gary Sisco]

They only ground they hold is ground they hold with armed force.

The resistance chose perfect strategic timing, I have to say. Very good thinking. China wants acceptance as a major global player and so on and so forth, with the picture window the Olympics, of course.

Wham!

Never meet the enemy on his own terms or time.

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

They only ground they hold is ground they hold with armed force.

True, of course. But I get the impression the picture on the ground is complex. China has imported many of its citizens into Tibet over the last 50+ years. Are they now Tibetans? Do we go by ethnicity or residency? Among Tibetans, however one defines them, how many are for independence? Just asking, I've no idea. Naturally enough, we see those protesting in the media; maybe they represent a majority but I cynically doubt it. As is often the case, the whole thing was screwed up by colonial powers mid-century, leaving the regional inhabitants to sort out the mess for years and years to come.

[Gary Sisco]

Most of the imports -- the English word is colonists -- are Han Chinese. They own nearly all the shops and businesses and so on, which were the target of most of the vandalism, etc., according to the Economist article. Some Tibetans have migrated back as well, as a train line has made travel there easier.

India put a quash on Tibetan protests, there, as well, because they don't want to antagonize China, a major trade power.

The resistance erupted also in several other areas. One of the Chinese' biggest concerns is that it will spread to Muslim ethnic group it's also colonized.

I had to crack up a few days ago when China announced that the state would have to have a part in choosing the next Lama. There's cultural tradition and continuity for you! hey.

I loathe the Chinese state and am always heartened to see real resistance offered.