Race for the White House: 2008 - Part 3

[Lois Gilbert]

part 3

[Tom Storer]

Originally Posted by Ron Thorne, last post in part 2

10 things you should know about John McCain (but probably don't):

[...]

6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.

6. "Beer Executive Could Be Next First Lady," Associated Press, April 3, 2008
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...5ZtMgD8VQ86M80 "McCain Says Bank Bailout Should End `Systemic Risk,'" Bloomberg News, March 25, 2008
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...ZFM&refer=home[/I]

That's the point the Dems should repeat over and over from now until November.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

That's the point the Dems should repeat over and over from now until November.

If Hillary somehow got the nomination, she should skip the rich part.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Pete C

If Hillary somehow got the nomination, she should skip the rich part.

I was thinking the same. LOL!

BTW John McCain, it's a credit crisis, not a housing crisis. Low interest rates and easy credit led to over inflated housing prices. We still have low interest rates, but no longer have easy credit. Residential real-estate is still over-valued.

[Gary Sisco]

With the Clintons in the hundred-million dollar range, it would be idiotic to go after McCain for being wealthy.

Indeed, just about anyone in the Senate ought to be smart enough to stay off of that.

There's an incredible grabbing at straws in her campaign.

[Gary Sisco]

Just caught up on the previous part of this thread.

Talking about ending poverty in the context of the next election is specious and disingenuous at best, and a crass pandering.

What the next couple (at least) presidencies will be faced with is trying to pay off the incredible deficits created by our "conservative" government. In DC, that always means slashing social programs.

People who are running ought at least to be honest about this. Whoever is elected is not going to have much choice if any.

Congress, too.

[tippy]

Just curious: what is the Obamas’ 7-year total?

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by tippy

Just curious: what is the Obamas’ 7-year total?

Obama was not a wealthy man until "The Audacity of Hope" became a best-seller. He's a single-digit millionaire now. The Clintons are way out of front, the McCains second, and the Obamas way behind in last in wealth. Obama has a very expensive home, but couldn't have afforded it on his own. He can thank his indicted former friend, Tony Rezko for that.

[Gary Sisco]

There are still many millions the Clintons haven't explained yet, about 15 million from one person alone, with no explanation about what the money was for, how was it they came by it, etc. Small change to America's wealthy but to everyone else a huge amount of money to have no explanation for.

All of the candidates, to be honest, should be forthcoming about the amount of fiscal discipline required -- ie, more than ever before by a long shot -- to get the federal government's finances even heading in the right direction. It can only be accomplished by slashing budgets on the one hand and significantly raising taxes on the other. Anyone who can't admit that up front is, essentially, lying to people.

The feds spend money in ways that can only be called insane and it's about time someone with power said so in plain English. Just the announcement that there is going to be a "stimulus" check arriving someday cost the federal government -- that is, cost us, plus interest because it's borrowed money -- 42 million dollars just to mail the announcement. We will have to pay back with interest idiotic things like that *and* the "stimulus" money, which will also be borrowed. What they're doing is borrowing more money for us, that becomes our debt plus interest, and in the end will be a spit in the ocean. And of course will cost tens of millions more in borrowed money plus interest to send the "stimulus" checks themselves. So, just talking this one little idiocy, we're approaching 100 million plus interest in postage alone.

And the most hilarious aspect of this mess is that the moment the repubs lose the presidency, they will revert to fiscal hawks overnight and behave as if it were someone else -- namely the dems -- who created this fiscal mess on a historical level.

And a lot of people will be going, "That's right. That's right. All they know how to do is tax and spend."

Forgetting that all the repubs did was borrow and spend and then borrow some more and spend that, too, and so forth into the multitrillions of dollars plus interest that Americans who work for a living are going to have pay back, like it or not, and an ever-growing many will find their elderly years on the bleak side of finances, at the same time the government is forced to slash spending.

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Obama was not a wealthy man until "The Audacity of Hope" became a best-seller. He's a single-digit millionaire now. The Clintons are way out of front, the McCains second, and the Obamas way behind in last in wealth. Obama has a very expensive home, but couldn't have afforded it on his own. He can thank his indicted former friend, Tony Rezko for that.

Okay so they are all millionaires. Being a successful politician likely facilitates that trend both from connections made from such position (a suspect means of amassing wealth) and the nationwide recognition probably helps too as mentioned by way of book sales, speaking engagements, etc. You’d probably have to make a real effort not to become wealthy in that position.

[Gary Sisco]

Pols often get irrational "advances" for their books that publishers will never sell enough to recoup. It's a standard practice I don't understand, but it's entirely common.

And many millions of Americans have houses they can't afford.

We'd be hardpressed to find an American pol in Congress or Senate who's as clean as Obama is. If what they've dug up so far is the extent of it, we're talking diddley-squat by federal politicians' standards.

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

There are still many millions the Clintons haven't explained yet, about 15 million from one person alone, with no explanation about what the money was for, how was it they came by it, etc. Small change to America's wealthy but to everyone else a huge amount of money to have no explanation for.

Obviously these mystery funds must be why HRC wanted to wait until after primaries. I suppose filing separately was a burdensome ($$) option.

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

The feds spend money in ways that can only be called insane and it's about time someone with power said so in plain English. Just the announcement that there is going to be a "stimulus" check arriving someday cost the federal government -- that is, cost us, plus interest because it's borrowed money -- 42 million dollars just to mail the announcement. We will have to pay back with interest idiotic things like that *and* the "stimulus" money, which will also be borrowed. What they're doing is borrowing more money for us, that becomes our debt plus interest, and in the end will be a spit in the ocean. And of course will cost tens of millions more in borrowed money plus interest to send the "stimulus" checks themselves. So, just talking this one little idiocy, we're approaching 100 million plus interest in postage alone.

And the most hilarious aspect of this mess is that the moment the repubs lose the presidency, they will revert to fiscal hawks overnight and behave as if it were someone else -- namely the dems -- who created this fiscal mess on a historical level.

And a lot of people will be going, "That's right. That's right. All they know how to do is tax and spend."

Forgetting that all the repubs did was borrow and spend and then borrow some more and spend that, too, and so forth into the multitrillions of dollars plus interest that Americans who work for a living are going to have pay back, like it or not, and an ever-growing many will find their elderly years on the bleak side of finances, at the same time the government is forced to slash spending.

Our (future) tax dollars is Congress free pool of money. They really don’t care because the suffering doesn’t touch them. When it does touch them and theirs, they bailout. The only way to stop this cycle is for taxpayers to stop making money. Join me.

[Gary Sisco]

I did, several years ago, Tip!

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Pols often get irrational "advances" for their books that publishers will never sell enough to recoup. It's a standard practice I don't understand, but it's entirely common.

And many millions of Americans have houses they can't afford.

We'd be hardpressed to find an American pol in Congress or Senate who's as clean as Obama is. If what they've dug up so far is the extent of it, we're talking diddley-squat by federal politicians' standards.

Obama is much younger than the other two with a shorter career. That gives him an advantage in the "clean" category.

Jeff Flake is almost certainly cleaner than Obama, and he's been in Congress much longer. There are no Tony Rezko's in Flake's life that I'm aware of.

[tippy]

So let’s presume a democrat is going to the White House in 2009. I wonder out of Hillary and Obama who would Republicans be wisest to choose as President?

[Gary Sisco]

The only thing that matters to repubs is they know they can beat Clinton. Draw your own conclusions.

[tippy]

Well my conclusions, the ugliness of that campaign, doesn’t answer my question though about which candidate is more ready-made Republican friendly. An indulgent question perhaps, but I am curious none-the-less.

[Gary Sisco]

By the way, McCain has a son in the war. At least his position is morally consistent in a concrete way. He has blood of his own at risk. There are damned few Americans in real positions of power who can say the same.

[Gary Sisco]

Tippy -- I don't think there is one. They'll be hostile, regardless. That's the one thing they know how to do and be. Their only hope is to regain Congress so they're not just sputtering without effect for years. But their hope of regaining Congress is more wishful thinking, this time.

Not that the dems have done anything to talk about with their control of Congress, but it still hurts the repubs not to have it, whether the dems do or don't.

The repubs know how to be an effective opposition party. The dems don't.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

By the way, McCain has a son in the war. At least his position is morally consistent in a concrete way. He has blood of his own at risk. There are damned few Americans in real positions of power who can say the same.

Questions to ponder:

1. Would it help or hurt McCain's chances of winning if his son was killed in combat?

2. Would it help or hurt Clinton's chances of winning if Bill Clinton died of a heart attack tomorrow morning?

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Questions to ponder:

1. Would it help or hurt McCain's chances of winning if his son was killed in combat?

2. Would it help or hurt Clinton's chances of winning if Bill Clinton died of a heart attack tomorrow morning?

1. Don't know.
2. I think Hillary would drop out but her chances are already bleak.

Who was the last President to smoke cigarettes in the White House? I remember LBJ being a smoker. It's questionable whether Obama will be able to kick his nicotine habit.

Ford smoked a pipe. JFK loved his H Upmann Petit Coronas.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Who was the last President to smoke cigarettes in the White House?

Thankfully, she's not in the running to be our next president, but first lady, Laura Bush, smokes like a chimney.

It's questionable whether Obama will be able to kick his nicotine habit.

So? What's your point, Gordo?

[Uli]

I just wanted to make sure that the last post on the old thread by Ron does not get lost in all the Hillary hate:

Originally Posted by Ron Thorne

10 things you should know about John McCain (but probably don't):

1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1

2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."2

3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.3

4. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."4

5. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.5

6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.6

7. Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."7

8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.8

9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."9

10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.10

John McCain is not who the Washington press corps make him out to be. Please help get the word out—forward this email to your personal network. And if you want us to keep you posted on MoveOn's work to get the truth out about John McCain, sign up here:

http://pol.moveon.org/mccaintruth/?i...5-h8YUnt&t=232

Thank you for all you do.

–Eli, Justin, Noah, Laura, and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team

Saturday, April 5th, 2008Sources:

1. "The Complicated History of John McCain and MLK Day," ABC News, April 3, 2008
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...mplicated.html "McCain Facts," ColorOfChange.org, April 4, 2008
http://colorofchange.org/mccain_facts/
2. "McCain More Hawkish Than Bush on Russia, China, Iraq," Bloomberg News, March 12, 2008
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...tk0ZM&refer=us
"Buchanan: John McCain 'Will Make Cheney Look Like Gandhi,'" ThinkProgress, February 6, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/06/...gandhi-mccain/3. "McCain Sides With Bush On Torture Again, Supports Veto Of Anti-Waterboarding Bill," ThinkProgress, February 20, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/20/...-torture-veto/4. "McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned," MSNBC, February 18, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17222147/5. "2007 Children's Defense Fund Action Council® Nonpartisan Congressional Scorecard," February 2008
http://www.childrensdefense.org/site..._scorecard2007
"McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion," CNN, October 3, 2007
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/...ain.interview/6. "Beer Executive Could Be Next First Lady," Associated Press, April 3, 2008
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...5ZtMgD8VQ86M80 "McCain Says Bank Bailout Should End `Systemic Risk,'" Bloomberg News, March 25, 2008
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...ZFM&refer=home
7. "Will McCain's Temper Be a Liability?," Associated Press, February 16, 2008
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4301022
"Famed McCain temper is tamed," Boston Globe, January 27, 2008
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...mper_is_tamed/
8. "Black Claims McCain's Campaign Is Above Lobbyist Influence: 'I Don't Know What The Criticism Is,'" ThinkProgress, April 2, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/02/...lack-lobbyist/
"McCain's Lobbyist Friends Rally 'Round Their Man," ABC News, January 29, 2008
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4210251
9. "McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam," Mother Jones Magazine, March 12, 2008
http://www.motherjones.com/washingto...ual-guide.html
"Will McCain Specifically 'Repudiate' Hagee's Anti-Gay Comments?," ThinkProgress, March 12, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/12/...agee-anti-gay/"McCain 'Very Honored' By Support Of Pastor Preaching 'End-Time Confrontation With Iran,'" ThinkProgress, February 28, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/28/...n-endorsement/
10. "John McCain Gets a Zero Rating for His Environmental Record," Sierra Club, February 28, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/environment/77913/

Support our member-driven organization: MoveOn.org Political Action is entirely funded by our 3.2 million members. We have no corporate contributors, no foundation grants, no money from unions. Our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. If you'd like to support our work, you can give now at:

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Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

[Dr Dave]

Mark Penn is out of the Clinton campaign. Her campaign management problems are now more than ever sounding hugely dissonant against her campaign themes of competence and experience. Here's the story from today's NY Times:

April 7, 2008
Top Clinton Aide Leaving His Post Under Pressure
By JOHN M. BRODER

ALBUQUERQUE — Mark Penn, the pollster who has advised Bill and Hillary Clinton since 1996, stepped down under pressure on Sunday as the chief political strategist for Mrs. Clinton’s struggling presidential campaign after his private business arrangements again clashed with her campaign positions.

Mr. Penn, who was widely disliked by Mrs. Clinton’s fiercest loyalists and had bitterly feuded with many of them, sealed his fate last week by meeting with officials from Colombia, which hired him to help secure passage of a bilateral trade treaty with the United States that Mrs. Clinton, a senator from New York, opposes.

Mr. Penn met with the Colombians in his role as chief executive of Burson-Marsteller, a global public relations firm. He has refused to sever his ties to the company, which also represented Countrywide Financial, the nation’s largest mortgage lender, and through a subsidiary represented Blackwater Worldwide, the military contractor blamed for numerous civilian deaths in Iraq.

Mr. Penn’s shift — he will continue to do some polling — is the latest upheaval in a campaign that has seen its manager replaced, faced critical money shortages and has often lagged behind Senator Barack Obama of Illinois in a cohesive message and ground strategy. The move comes at a crucial juncture, just two weeks before the Pennsylvania primary on April 22, which Mrs. Clinton needs to win to keep hope of her nomination alive.

Mr. Penn’s work on the trade treaty with Colombia threatened to undercut Mrs. Clinton’s support among the blue-collar voters who are a crucial part of her base, as well as call into question the sincerity of her populist economic message.

A statement from Maggie Williams, the campaign manager, and comments from aides suggested that Mr. Penn voluntarily stepped aside, but other knowledgeable aides said that Mrs. Clinton was furious when she learned of the Colombia talks and insisted on Mr. Penn’s demotion. Mr. Clinton concurred in that judgment, aides said.

The Clinton campaign declined to make Mr. Penn available for comment. On Friday he apologized to the campaign for taking on the Colombian contract.

For months, many have wondered why Mrs. Clinton had protected the gruff, rumpled strategist. Many rivals within the campaign held Mr. Penn responsible for the flawed electoral strategy that is considered partly to blame for Mrs. Clinton’s difficult political position, trailing Mr. Obama by more than a hundred delegates and facing a very narrow path to winning the Democratic nomination.

Mr. Penn advocated the plan to focus on a limited number of big state primaries, ignoring many smaller states and caucuses, where Mr. Obama built what appears to be an impregnable lead in pledged delegates.

Mr. Penn also early on resisted efforts to humanize Mrs. Clinton, insisting that her personality was not a detriment and that voters would be drawn to her experience and presumed competence. He repeatedly pointed to polling data to support his position, leading to battles with other aides who later said it was the glimpses of vulnerability and humanity seen after her loss in Iowa that enabled her to rebound.

In a terse statement Sunday evening, Ms. Williams, the campaign manager, said, “After the events of the last few days, Mark Penn has asked to give up his role as chief strategist of the Clinton campaign.”

His polling firm, Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates, will continue to provide polling and advice to the campaign, the statement said. Geoff Garin, who has been conducting polling for the campaign and will continue to provide data, and Howard Wolfson, Mrs. Clinton’s longtime communications director, will coordinate the campaign’s strategic message from now on, the statement added.

Mr. Penn’s departure as chief adviser could have an effect on Mrs. Clinton’s message during the remaining contests. His strategy — emphasizing Mrs. Clinton’s strength and experience — has been controversial for months. Critics have complained that his approach allowed Mr. Obama to seize the larger theme of change that has come to define the 2008 election.

As the former first lady’s initial approach failed to blunt Mr. Obama’s rise, Mr. Penn increasingly favored tougher attacks; some colleagues argued internally that they would be counterproductive.

Mr. Garin, who advised Mrs. Clinton’s winning campaign for a Senate seat in 2000 and only recently joined her presidential bid, has argued throughout the primaries that her route to victory lies less in assailing Mr. Obama than in buttressing her own image as a leader who could connect with average Americans and improve their lives.

Mr. Penn’s decision to meet last Monday with Colombia’s ambassador to the United States in his role as head of Burson-Marsteller put Mrs. Clinton in a precarious political position as she tries to convince Pennsylvania voters that she is the best candidate to address their concerns about jobs and the economy. Many voters in Pennsylvania, like in Ohio, which Mrs. Clinton won, blame trade agreements for the hemorrhaging of jobs that has left areas like Scranton with high unemployment rates and a preponderance of lower paying jobs.

The Colombian government hired the Burson-Marsteller firm last year under a $300,000 one-year contract to help secure passage of a bilateral trade treaty with the United States. Mrs. Clinton, like many Democrats, has opposed the deal, saying it is unfavorable to American workers.

On Saturday, the Colombian government fired Mr. Penn’s firm, saying his efforts to distance himself from them were an insult.

There has been a long history of resentment toward Mr. Penn within the Clinton campaign because of the feeling that he was letting his business interests trump the interests of the campaign. People from the beginning have questioned why he had not recused himself from his role at Burson-Marsteller.

Although the end of the primary season is drawing near, campaign aides said Mr. Penn’s demotion would change the internal dynamics of the Clinton camp, with a more collegial atmosphere replacing the first-among-equals structure Mr. Penn created around himself.

Mr. Penn worked his way into the Clintons’ favor during President Clinton’s 1996 re-election campaign. He provided the polling used by Dick Morris, then an influential adviser to Mr. Clinton, to create Mr. Clinton’s small-bore campaign strategy, much of it aimed at wooing so-called soccer moms with positions like support for school uniforms and for the V-chip to monitor violence on television.

When Mr. Morris had to quit in 1996 because of his association with a call girl, Mr. Clinton’s campaign went on “seamlessly,” Mrs. Clinton wrote in her memoir, “because Mark Penn continued to offer the thoughtful research and analysis.” He remained for the second Clinton term and through Mr. Clinton’s impeachment trial, demonstrating, among other things, one of the virtues that the Clintons prized most: loyalty.

In 2000, Mr. Clinton’s vice president, Al Gore, initially considered hiring Mr. Penn for his presidential campaign, but he decided Mr. Penn was too devoted to the Clintons to offer him objective advice. Mrs. Clinton, who described him in her memoir as brilliant and intense, shrewd and insightful, hired him for her first run at the Senate.

Mr. Penn and his business partner, Doug Schoen, began their polling firm in 1977 when they worked for Edward I. Koch’s campaign for mayor of New York. They went on to become deeply involved in campaigns for politicians in other countries, including Menachem Begin in Israel in 1981. He also advised David N. Dinkins in 1989 in his successful New York mayoral race over Rudolph W. Giuliani.

Mr. Penn advocated that Democrats did best when they campaigned from the center, although this did not always sit well with others in the party. His clients have included the Democratic Leadership Council and Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, defeated in his Democratic primary and now an independent.

Mr. Penn described his philosophy in his book, “Microtrends,” published last year. Because of “niching,” he wrote, “there is no one America anymore” but “hundreds of Americas.” His extensive polling led him to believe that “Americans overwhelmingly favor small, reasonable ideas over big, grandiose schemes.”

Mrs. Clinton has not spoken to reporters since the news of Mr. Penn’s meeting with the Colombian officials broke at the end of last week. In several public appearances this weekend, she gave no indication of anger or a pending shake-up in her campaign. But at a rally on Sunday morning in Missoula, Mont., she said the contest with Mr. Obama was still very close and predicted many “twists and turns” before it was resolved.

Katharine Q. Seelye contributed reporting from New York, John Harwood from Washington and Adam Nagourney from Santa Monica, Calif.

[Gary Sisco]

The basic problem with her campaign, I think, is that they went into it thinking her nomination so done a deal that the primaries would be a pro forma ritual. It's clear that they hadn't anticipated a real contest or the possibility that she might not win. Inevitability doesn't require a real strategy.

Cheap mofos, too. They've been stiffing a lot of caterers and such. Yesterday I read an article where yet another guy was complaining that he'd been stiffed for more than $700. Chump change in Washington, but a significant loss to a small business.

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Inevitability doesn't require a real strategy.

Mmmmm....yas, yas, yas. "The Surge Is Working!"

I saw those stories about the Clinton campaign stiffing contractors, too. Ad agencies know to get their money up front. As always, it's the little guys who pay most heavily for their innocent belief that a Big Name will surely pay up.

[Root Doctor]

"Penn is the Democratic version of Karl Rove. He even looks like Rove, only he's fatter and more disgusting. Up close in a forum like this, his eyes bulge out of his fat, blood-flushed head; his neck spills out of his too-tight shirt collar; and he generally looks like Jabba the Hutt, his suit bursting at the seams, with only the bowl of snackable live toads suspended at arm's length missing from the picture."--Matt Taibbi

[Gary Sisco]

I've always wondered why guys like that don't just get larger neck sizes. It's not like they don't have the bread. It must be hellish uncomfortable. Maybe that's what makes them such pricks, half choking their lives away.

[Uli]

from the syndrom, iirc

John McCain:
Unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief
The spoiled son of military privilege got a free ride throughout his military career despite repeated instances of sex scandals and screw-ups
By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
January 27, 2008 Issue
John Sidney McCain III entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland in 1954. Young McCain wanted to become an admiral. He planned to be the “first son and grandson of four star admirals” to achieve such a distinction. But that was not to be. McCain III possessed none of the innate character and discipline traits that helped mold his father and grandfather into great military leaders.

His father, John S. “Junior” McCain, and grandfather, John S. McCain, Sr., were famous four-star Admirals in the U.S. Navy. His father commanded U.S. forces in Europe before becoming commander of American forces fighting in Vietnam. His grandfather commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945. Both men became highly influential in U.S. Navy operations.

At the Academy, aside being known as a “rowdy, raunchy, underachiever” who resented authority, Midshipman McCain became infamous as a leader among his fellow midshipmen for organizing “off-Yard activities” and hard drinking parties. Robert Timberg wrote in his book, The Nightingale’s Song, that “being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck.”

McCain’s grades were “marginal.” He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958. Despite his low “class standing,” and no doubt because of the influence of his family of famous Admirals, McCain was leap-frogged ahead of more qualified applicants and granted a coveted slot to be trained as a navy pilot.

Good Party Animal - Bad Pilot:

He spent the next two and a half years as a “naval aviator in training” at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida and Naval Air Station Corpus Christi in Texas, flying A-1 Skyraiders.

While a pilot trainee, McCain continued to party hard. He drove a Corvette and dated an exotic dancer named “Marie the Flame of Florida.” Timberg wrote that McCain “learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn’t love it.”

McCain Lost Five Military Aircraft

McCain, the “below par” pilot, eventually lost 5 military aircraft, the first during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while trying to land. The Navy ignored the crash and graduated McCain in 1960.

While deployed in the Mediterranean, the hard partying McCain lost a second aircraft. Timberg described the crash: “Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.”

Unscathed, McCain returned to Pensacola Station where he was promoted to flight instructor for Naval Air Station Meridian in Mississippi. The airfield at Meridian, McCain Field, was named in honor of McCain’s grandfather.

In 1964 McCain became involved with Carol Shepp, a model from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, he had met at Annapolis. They were married in Philadelphia on July 3, 1965.

Flight instructor McCain lost a third aircraft while flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg wrote that McCain radioed, “I’ve got a flameout” before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain parachuted onto a beach moments before his plane slammed into a clump of trees.

The Navy dismissed the crash as “unavoidable” and assigned McCain to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in December 1966, which was patrolling the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. In Spring 1967, the Forrestal was assigned to join the Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign against North Vietnam.

McCain lost his fourth plane on board the Forrestal on July 29, 1967 when a rocket inadvertently slammed into his bomb laden jet. McCain escaped, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors. McCain was transferred from the badly damaged Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. Shortly afterwards, on Oct. 26, 1967, he was shot down and captured by the Vietnamese.

Post-POW Years: Political Ambition and a New, Young, Rich Wife

Upon his release from North Vietnam and return to the United States in 1973, McCain reunited with his wife, Carol, who had been permanently crippled in a car accident while he was a POW.

Still yearning to become an admiral, McCain enrolled in the National War College at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. and underwent physical therapy in order to fly again. The Navy excused his permanent disabilities and reinstated him to flight status, effectively positioning him for promotion.

Timberg described McCain’s advancement: “in the fall of 1974, McCain was transferred to Jacksonville as the executive officer of Replacement Air Group 174, the long-sought flying billet at last a reality. A few months later, he assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather, since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path.”

While Executive Officer and later as Squadron Commander McCain used his authority to arrange frequent flights that allowed him to carouse with subordinates and “engage in extra-marital affairs.”

This was a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice rules against adultery and fraternization with subordinates. But, as with all his other past behaviors, McCain was never penalized; instead he always got away with his transgressions.

Timberg wrote, “Off duty, usually on routine cross-country flights to Yuma and El Centro, John started carousing and running around with women. To make matters worse, some of the women with whom he was linked by rumor were subordinates . . . At the time the rumors were so widespread that, true or not, they became part of McCain’s persona, impossible not to take note of.”

In early 1977, Admiral Jim Holloway, Chief of Naval Operations promoted McCain to captain and transferred him from his command position “to Washington as the number-two man in the Navy’s Senate liaison office. McCain was promptly given total control of the office. It wasn’t long before the “fun loving and irreverent” McCain had turned the liaison office into a “late-afternoon gathering spot where senators and staffers, usually from the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, would drop in for a drink and the chance to unwind.”

In 1979, while attending a military reception in Hawaii, McCain met and fell in love with Cindy Lou Hensley, 17 years his junior, who was the daughter of James W. Hensley, a wealthy Anheuser-Busch distributor from Phoenix, Arizona. McCain filed for and obtained an uncontested divorce from his wife in Florida on April 2, 1980 and promptly married Cindy on May 17, 1980.

He resigned from the Navy in 1981 and went to work for his father-in-law in Phoenix; where he used the opportunity to make powerful and wealthy friends in Arizona including banker Charles Keating and Duke Tully, the editor-in-chief of the Arizona Republic. Keating was later convicted of fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy and Tully was disgraced for concocting a phony military record of combat in Korea and Vietnam including medals for heroism.

McCain ran for Arizona’s First Congressional District in 1982. McCain won the congressional seat. In 1987 McCain was elected to the US Senate.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain...ary_record.ht…

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

I've always wondered why guys like that don't just get larger neck sizes. It's not like they don't have the bread. It must be hellish uncomfortable. Maybe that's what makes them such pricks, half choking their lives away.

They're no different than regular guys who are still buying and somehow wearing size 15 shirts and size 32 pants, long after their necks are 17 1/2" and their waists [or what would be their waists if they had one] are size 44, or more.
They all refuse to believe that they look ridiculous and would not if they looked in a mirror once in a while.
I've probably mentioned that for a while I had an image-consulting business. Both men and women are very difficult to convince that they have changed at all since their twenties.
I used to cut out the size tags from pants and skirts, before I gave them to my clients to try on when I shopped with them.
But, here's a tip. Some of the high-end lines actually have size tags that are smaller numbers than standard to avoid the size number phobia many people have.
I've actually had women who won't even look at anything above a certain size, even though they haven't been a size 6 since they were a teenager. Same with men. They automatically buy pants the same size and somehow squish into them.
A tape measure is far more useful than is relying on a size tag to tell you if something will fit you.
But, Mark Penn's shirts are still a mystery to me. All I can say is that he hasn't measured his neck for decades.
I'm actually surprised that a rich guy like Penn would buy clothes that don't fit him. Perfect fit used to be what distinguished the rich from the common herd. They had their clothes tailor-made to fit them.
I guess Mark Penn buys off the rack and salespeople who serve him are unscrupulous.