Generation Kill

[Brian Olewnick]

Placeholder for the HBO 7-part series beginning this Sunday, by the creators of The Wire. Based on the book by Evan Wright, a reporter embedded in the Baghdad invasion of 2003.

[Gary Sisco]

Read the book, first, Brian, because they'll fuck it up.

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Read the book, first, Brian, because they'll fuck it up.

Could be, but going from their track record, I'll cede them the benefit of the doubt.

[groover]

I read the book on Gary's recommendation and found it interesting, but I'm not sure how well it will work as a video series, either.

[Gary Sisco]

I doubt very much you'll ever hear US Marines on American tv talking openly about their role as professional killers for empire (their words). Which they do in the book, and they're very articulate about it. I also doubt very much that US Marines on American tv will be shown mowing through towns at highway speed in Humvees, machineguns wailing all the way, at any and all targets and none at all, town after town after town. Most Americans have no concept of what that means for the people in the way, almost none of whom will be telling the story today because they're dead. They just rode through town after town, machineguns lighting up everything and nothing the while. No time even to identify targets, no desire to, either.

It's an intense book but shit like that doesn't appear on American tv.

Read the book. It won't take you more than two sessions.

I've seen the Wire and the like. The book's talking real life in war time. That's never been on tv, yet. Damned few movies, even, and most of that few have been seen by few.

The author rode, literally, in the lead Humvee at the very tip of the leading Marines at the spearpoint of the invasion. There was no American unit forward of their vehicle.

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

It's an intense book but shit like that doesn't appear on American tv.
.

Hmmm. You may, of course, turn out to be correct, but I'll go out on a limb and guess that those scenes will, in fact, make it into this production.

I guess there's some amount of controversy about the book itself, its accuracy and level of embellishment. Gary, you might be interested in this commentary:

http://commentaryongenerationkill.blogspot.com/

[Gary Sisco]

It will be the first time, ever, then where Americans were shown on American tv killing whatever and whoever including, obviously, the hapless civilians who happened to live where they lived.

I've never seen on American tv anything remotely like warfare. It's always a bad imitation of bad imitations.

[Gary Sisco]

"These are his views on the Marines of 1st Recon, the events of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the book, and do not necessarily represent the views of the Department of Defense or its components."

I'd say.

[clinthopson]

I'll record it for future viewing alone. Donna doesn't dig war stuff.

[Gary Sisco]

I've been wishing for years that when they deal with war they make it as realistic as possible but they don't. Not even the most "graphic" comes close, even.

[Tom Storer]

There was that series "Over There." Not cinéma vérité by a long shot but it did show the Iraq war without much sugar-coating. Didn't last long, though.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

There was that series "Over There." Not cinéma vérité by a long shot but it did show the Iraq war without much sugar-coating. Didn't last long, though.

Unlike real life.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Brian Olewnick

Hmmm. You may, of course, turn out to be correct, but I'll go out on a limb and guess that those scenes will, in fact, make it into this production.

I guess there's some amount of controversy about the book itself, its accuracy and level of embellishment. Gary, you might be interested in this commentary:

http://commentaryongenerationkill.blogspot.com/

I'll keep that link bookmarked as I watch the series. The NFO who wrote the commentary accuses the author, Wright, of filtering. Simon and Burns are known for not doing that (except when it comes to the management of the Baltimore Sun). I'm looking forward to Sunday's first episode. Like Brian, I have high expectations for any series created by Simon and Burns.

[Brian Olewnick]

NYT wrote it up today. Most pertinent section re: Gary's concerns:

Brad and his team are intent on avoiding civilian casualties, but they abound: a shepherd and his camel, shot by a trigger-happy 19-year-old lance corporal; an Iraqi driver who didn’t understand the warning shots fired from a Marine checkpoint; a hamlet of women and children obliterated by a bomb.
Avoidable civilian casualties are unavoidable in any war. “Generation Kill” also highlights the collateral wrongs that are specific to this conflict — early harbingers of a quagmire yet to come.

fwiw

[RBS]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

I doubt very much you'll ever hear US Marines on American tv talking openly about their role as professional killers for empire (their words). Which they do in the book, and they're very articulate about it. I also doubt very much that US Marines on American tv will be shown mowing through towns at highway speed in Humvees, machineguns wailing all the way, at any and all targets and none at all, town after town after town. Most Americans have no concept of what that means for the people in the way, almost none of whom will be telling the story today because they're dead. They just rode through town after town, machineguns lighting up everything and nothing the while. No time even to identify targets, no desire to, either.

It's an intense book but shit like that doesn't appear on American tv.

Read the book. It won't take you more than two sessions.

I've seen the Wire and the like. The book's talking real life in war time. That's never been on tv, yet. Damned few movies, even, and most of that few have been seen by few.

The author rode, literally, in the lead Humvee at the very tip of the leading Marines at the spearpoint of the invasion. There was no American unit forward of their vehicle.

With all due respect (and I mean that) what about the opening fight scene in "Saving Private Ryan?" That was pretty brutal. Spielberg didn't glamorize the fighting at all.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Not speaking for Gary but I'll bet he would say that the battle scenes in Private Ryan tend to be "cartoonish" in that they're really over the top. I would agree.

[Sergio Zamora]

I'll watch the show (mainly because it's by the producers of 'The Wire') and I'll withhold judgement, but whenever I hear the term 'embedded reporter' I get a bit hesitant to take any of it seriously. I realize that's a generalization, but there it is.

This isn't the politics board (where I no longer participate), so I'll leave it at that.

[shrugs]

HBO sets drama series in Treme with focus on city's musicians
Posted by Dave Walker, Television writer, The Times-Picayune July 10, 2008 2:00AM
Categories: Breaking News


HOLLYWOOD -- In a move that could boost the city's psyche and pump millions into its economy, cable giant HBO is developing a new TV drama to be set in the New Orleans music community.

"Treme," named after the iconic New Orleans neighborhood where many musicians live, will marry one of television's most prestigious networks with creator David Simon, one of television's hottest series masterminds.

Simon created HBO's the "The Wire," which just completed a five-year run. While not a huge ratings success for the network, "The Wire" was one of the most critically acclaimed shows in television history.

Simon confirmed that HBO will film the first episode of "Treme," possibly sometime later this year. If HBO gives the green light for more episodes, production would resume in 2009.

Simon, a frequent visitor to the city and a longtime New Orleans music fan, said this week that the stories told in "Treme" would reach beyond the music scene to explore political corruption, the public housing controversy, the crippled criminal-justice system, clashes between police and Mardi Gras Indians, and the struggle to regain the tourism industry after the storm.



"Treme," named after the iconic New Orleans neighborhood where many musicians live, will marry one of television's most prestigious networks with creator David Simon, one of television's hottest series masterminds.

Simon created HBO's the "The Wire," which just completed a five-year run. While not a huge ratings success for the network, "The Wire" was one of the most critically acclaimed shows in television history.

Simon confirmed that HBO will film the first episode of "Treme," possibly sometime later this year. If HBO gives the green light for more episodes, production would resume in 2009.

Simon, a frequent visitor to the city and a longtime New Orleans music fan, said this week that the stories told in "Treme" would reach beyond the music scene to explore political corruption, the public housing controversy, the crippled criminal-justice system, clashes between police and Mardi Gras Indians, and the struggle to regain the tourism industry after the storm.

"It's basically a post-Katrina history of the city. It will be rooted in events that everybody knows," Simon said. "What it's not going to be is a happy stroll through David Simon's record collection. It should not be a tourism slide show. If we do it right, it (will be) about why New Orleans matters."

Simon is also co-writer and co-executive producer of "Generation Kill," an HBO miniseries adapted from an account by a magazine reporter embedded with Marines during the invasion of Iraq, due to debut Sunday at 8 p.m. The seven-part miniseries is generating positive critical buzz.

Approval of the pilot episode of "Treme" does not guarantee that it will launch as a series. But HBO doesn't create pilots of as many scripts as broadcast networks traditionally do. That, combined with Simon's pedigree, makes the chances of "Treme" going to full series status comparatively high. The show, like the pilot, would be filmed in New Orleans.

Simon also filmed "The Wire" on location in his hometown of Baltimore. "The Wire" was an unflinching fictional portrayal of crime, urban decay and civic dysfunction, informed in part by Simon's former life as a newspaper crime reporter for The Baltimore Sun.

The "Treme" pilot is expected to be announced publicly today in Hollywood during the Television Critics Association summer TV tour, where Simon today also will promote Sunday's "Generation Kill" premiere.

Hosting a TV series is considered a bonanza for the local film-and-TV production community. Though a critical and ratings dud, "K-Ville," the Fox cop drama that shot 11 episodes in the city in 2007, pumped an estimated $1 million per episode in cast and crew salaries and production expenditures into the local economy.

Local production recently wrapped on the first season of the upcoming Disney Channel series "Imagination Movers," said Jennifer Day, director of the city's office of film and video, so news of a possible new series to be filmed locally would further boost the area's film-and-TV production scene.

Day has read the "Treme" pilot script and said it's less "sensationalized" than "K-Ville."

"It's a lot more realistic," she said, adding that New Orleanians "will see themselves more in the characters than they did in 'K-Ville.'

"I loved it. It's a very emotional, character-driven storyline."

"Treme" is not the first time HBO has backed a post-storm project in New Orleans. The network backed filmmaker Spike Lee in the development of Lee's award-winning Katrina documentary, "When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts."

Dave Walker can be reached at dwalker@timespicayune.com or 504.826.3429.

[Gary Sisco]

Brian -- My best pal, a combat vet himself, spends considerable time with Camp Pendleton (CA) Marines, professionals, multi-tour Iraq and elsewhere Marines. He's the one who gave me the book back when it was new. He says the Marines approve of the series treatment, from their grunt point of view, so, based on their review, I'll cede benefit of the doubt on the series, too.

[Brian Olewnick]

The following said with a caveat as I had to deal with a diarrhetic elderly hound on two occasions during the show, but....

Thought the first episode was OK, not extraordinary. I'm wondering if one of the reasons it read less well for me than The Wire was because it's working off Wright's writing. He, naturally, would have concentrated on salient details and episodes which is fine but it makes the telecast come across like a series of important scenes, ie, scenes that explicitly establish character, plot-line, etc. This is par for the course, but differs from the more naturalistic way much of The Wire was laid out, wherein you had very average, unextraordinary scenes that, due to the quality of the immediate writing (not once-removed), told volumes about not only the characters but the social context. Here, the latter especially seems to be spelled out more overtly, more cartoon-y.

Still, pretty decent and certainly worth following up.

[Gary Sisco]

The books starts -- accurately, btw -- with a bunch of bored as a mofo Marines hanging about waiting. Waiting. Waiting for the invasion to start so they can get on with it.

A wise guy once described war as long periods of utter boredom punctuated by moments of absolute terror.

[Brian Olewnick]

Maybe it's that most of the dialogue sounded like dialogue, less than naturalistic conversation. The radio guy's portrayal seemed particularly over the top in that regard. But this could turn out to be a mere quibble, we'll see.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Brian Olewnick

Still, pretty decent and certainly worth following up.

I agree with that. I doubt that any of us realized after watching the first episode that The Wire was going to be a great show. BTW, there was an article in the Times today about how cable shows did well in Emmy nominations due to the writers strike hurting network TV. Nevertheless, The Wire got only one nomination, for writing. Isiah Whitlock Jr. was robbed!

[Brian Olewnick]

An Update. Gary, in the third episode, they did indeed depict the shooting and bombing of a village inhabited solely by farmers, women and children. It was presented as a "mistake", and the action was committed by a troop other than the main one the storyline is following, but it was there. Additionally, several young Iraqis were gunned down with their camels by a member of the central group who's been portrayed as something of a psycho (though that took an interesting turn in the fourth episode where his psychosis presents a side that just might make him a valuable soldier)

But overall, I'm still not overly enamored of the show. A lot of my problem revolves around the dialog which is too concise, too there-to-make-a-point, too much how people only talk in movies. There are very few characters I buy as individuals. The leadership is painted too broadly as buffoons, the lower echelons too wise beyond their rank. I'd like to see more gray, something The Wire excelled in.

[clinthopson]

I think Brian nailed it.

The other thing is that I have to mop up the floor in front of the tv because of all the testosterone that sprays out.

[jesus marion joseph]

I'm enjoying the series. That Captain America dude cracks me up in a glad-I-don't-have-to-deal-with-him kind of way. Reminds me of a former business partner, too.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Brian Olewnick

But overall, I'm still not overly enamored of the show. A lot of my problem revolves around the dialog which is too concise, too there-to-make-a-point, too much how people only talk in movies. There are very few characters I buy as individuals. The leadership is painted too broadly as buffoons, the lower echelons too wise beyond their rank. I'd like to see more gray, something The Wire excelled in.

keep us posted as this goes along, I still haven't decided whether to watch it or not.