Too many stupid people suck

[Gentle Giant]

We need to enlist Billy Jack into the Secret Service so he can get medieval on some of these bastards.

Election spurs 'hundreds' of race threats, crimes

Cross burnings. Schoolchildren chanting "Assassinate Obama." Black figures hung from nooses. Racial epithets scrawled on homes and cars.

Incidents around the country referring to President-elect Barack Obama are dampening the postelection glow of racial progress and harmony, highlighting the stubborn racism that remains in America.

From California to Maine, police have documented a range of alleged crimes, from vandalism and vague threats to at least one physical attack. Insults and taunts have been delivered by adults, college students and second-graders.

There have been "hundreds" of incidents since the election, many more than usual, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate crimes.

One was in Snellville, Ga., where Denene Millner said a boy on the school bus told her 9-year-old daughter the day after the election: "I hope Obama gets assassinated." That night, someone trashed her sister-in-law's front lawn, mangled the Obama lawn signs, and left two pizza boxes filled with human feces outside the front door, Millner said.

She described her emotions as a combination of anger and fear.

"I can't say that every white person in Snellville is evil and anti-Obama and willing to desecrate my property because one or two idiots did it," said Millner, who is black. "But it definitely makes you look a little different at the people who you live with, and makes you wonder what they're capable of and what they're really thinking."

Potok, who is white, said he believes there is "a large subset of white people in this country who feel that they are losing everything they know, that the country their forefathers built has somehow been stolen from them."

Grant Griffin, a 46-year-old white Georgia native, expressed similar sentiments: "I believe our nation is ruined and has been for several decades and the election of Obama is merely the culmination of the change.

"If you had real change it would involve all the members of (Obama's) church being deported," he said.

Change in whatever form does not come easy, and a black president is "the most profound change in the field of race this country has experienced since the Civil War," said William Ferris, senior associate director of the Center for the Study of the American South at the University of North Carolina. "It's shaking the foundations on which the country has existed for centuries."

"Someone once said racism is like cancer," Ferris said. "It's never totally wiped out, it's in remission."

If so, America's remission lasted until the morning of Nov. 5.

The day after the vote hailed as a sign of a nation changed, black high school student Barbara Tyler of Marietta, Ga., said she heard hateful Obama comments from white students, and that teachers cut off discussion about Obama's victory.

Tyler spoke at a press conference by the Georgia chapter of the NAACP calling for a town hall meeting to address complaints from across the state about hostility and resentment. Another student, from a Covington middle school, said he was suspended for wearing an Obama shirt to school Nov. 5 after the principal told students not to wear political paraphernalia.

The student's mother, Eshe Riviears, said the principal told her: "Whether you like it or not, we're in the South, and there are a lot of people who are not happy with this decision."

Other incidents include:

_Four North Carolina State University students admitted writing anti-Obama comments in a tunnel designated for free speech expression, including one that said: "Let's shoot that (N-word) in the head." Obama has received more threats than any other president-elect, authorities say.

_At Standish, Maine, a sign inside the Oak Hill General Store read: "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool." Customers could sign up to bet $1 on a date when Obama would be killed. "Stabbing, shooting, roadside bombs, they all count," the sign said. At the bottom of the marker board was written "Let's hope someone wins."

_Racist graffiti was found in places including New York's Long Island, where two dozen cars were spray-painted; Kilgore, Texas, where the local high school and skate park were defaced; and the Los Angeles area, where swastikas, racial slurs and "Go Back To Africa" were spray painted on sidewalks, houses and cars.

_Second- and third-grade students on a school bus in Rexburg, Idaho, chanted "assassinate Obama," a district official said.

_University of Alabama professor Marsha L. Houston said a poster of the Obama family was ripped off her office door. A replacement poster was defaced with a death threat and a racial slur. "It seems the election brought the racist rats out of the woodwork," Houston said.

_Black figures were hanged by nooses from trees on Mount Desert Island, Maine, the Bangor Daily News reported. The president of Baylor University in Waco, Texas said a rope found hanging from a campus tree was apparently an abandoned swing and not a noose.

_Crosses were burned in yards of Obama supporters in Hardwick, N.J., and Apolacan Township, Pa.

_A black teenager in New York City said he was attacked with a bat on election night by four white men who shouted 'Obama.'

_In the Pittsburgh suburb of Forest Hills, a black man said he found a note with a racial slur on his car windshield, saying "now that you voted for Obama, just watch out for your house."

Emotions are often raw after a hard-fought political campaign, but now those on the losing side have an easy target for their anger.

"The principle is very simple," said BJ Gallagher, a sociologist and co-author of the diversity book "A Peacock in the Land of Penguins." "If I can't hurt the person I'm angry at, then I'll vent my anger on a substitute, i.e., someone of the same race."

"We saw the same thing happen after the 9-11 attacks, as a wave of anti-Muslim violence swept the country. We saw it happen after the Rodney King verdict, when Los Angeles blacks erupted in rage at the injustice perpetrated by 'the white man.'"

"It's as stupid and ineffectual as kicking your dog when you've had a bad day at the office," Gallagher said. "But it happens a lot."

___

[twomikesinhand]

Hola Sr. Gigante!

You have read the same article that I did a few hours ago. This is not about stupid people, but a real danger to society that has been in our midst for centuries and will not just go away. There is a real need to be ever vigilant of people like this. The core of the problem begins with the fear that people feel for each other. There are of course, no easy answers, but in any case, these people are not a joke and we need more than ever to maintain an increased awareness of them. We have been blessed afterall, with something unfathomable until very recently!

dos micros

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by twomikesinhand

Hola Sr. Gigante!

You have read the same article that I did a few hours ago. This is not about stupid people,

What makes you say that? This is absolutely about stupid, ignorant, shit-for-brains people.

We have been blessed afterall, with something unfathomable until very recently!

Please explain this statement.

With all due respect, your overall response is surprising ... the thrust of which, difficult to discern.

[tippy]

Ron, twomikes’ concern is that these racists, stupidity aside, are dangerous and that we should maintain an awareness of them and be vigilant about the threat they pose. He considers Obama’s election to office a blessing, formerly unthinkable as a possibility due to his African heritage. He also states that racism is based on fear – a primal kind of fear - and I believe this too.

[Pete C]

Ron, I don't understand what you don't understand.

It goes well beyond stupidity, hate can't just be written off to stupidity, and Obama's election was unfathomable until recently. What's so difficult about that?

I've got plenty of news for you--apart from the proposition that racism is by nature stupidity, there are plenty of racists who are not otherwise "stupid" on an intelligence scale, which is the even more frightening thing about the irrationality of hate. Too many smart people suck too.

I realize that you like to cluck and chide, but don't jump the gun.

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

Grant Griffin, a 46-year-old white Georgia native, expressed similar sentiments: "I believe our nation is ruined and has been for several decades and the election of Obama is merely the culmination of the change.

Griffin is correct: His nation is ruined and has been for several decades. His nation was called "The Confederacy." They lost in 1865, and now they've really and truly lost. And they'll stay lost, because they were on the wrong side of history then, they're on the wrong side of history now, and they'll never get to the right side, because admitting they were wrong means giving up their entire identity. There is nothing to be done except to keep the grindstone spinning on these people. As a Yankee relocated to the South, I am doing my level best to marginalize them as much as possible.

The latest conversational gambit: "Robert E. Lee a hero? Robert E. Lee took an oath to defend the United States of America, and then broke that oath. He's not a hero. He's a traitor."

[steve(thelil)]

While I agree with the propositions that 1)there are too many stupid people, and 2) too many hateful people, and 3) too many people who suck, I'm not sure that the too many stupid people suck. Of the universe of stupid people, I believe that the right amount of them suck.

[Tom Storer]

Obama's election hasn't suddenly created all this bigotry and resentment and hatred. It's not surprising at all that people with these feelings are venting them now. What has changed is that enough people did not have these feelings, or had them but weren't ruled by them, to vote Obama into office. It's like when a soccer team wins and supporters of the other team start vandalizing property and getting into fights afterward outside the stadium: it's because they lost. And that is a very good thing.

[Gentle Giant]

The scary thing is that a) kids are showing they've been taught well by their hate-filled parents, and b) these same jerks are among the gun nuts of society and there's a pretty strong chance that the USA may have its first assassinated black President before too long. Maybe even before he takes office. Hell, Lincoln had to sneak into Washington when he was first elected.

[tippy]

Honestly, I am not even going to put my energy into thinking “there’s a strong chance that Obama will be assassinated.” I can think of nothing more horrible at present. I feel bad that our President Elect, not to mention his family, should have particular concern over this but I will hope and trust at this point that he has the right people protecting and taking the most extreme measures to guard his safety. I am not going to read the article but I will say that I am most of all sorry for the everyday people who are in more danger because of the recent election. I am not afraid for my life so I don’t know what that is like but I do know that there is little of more value to me than when my enemy declares him/herself in no uncertain terms than keeping me guessing like a fool. I feel safer in open contest because then I know what I am dealing with. And an enemy declarant also opens himself to the judgment of all others who are deeply offended by his stance. I can’t wait for these people to get smaller and smaller and whatever happens, I firmly believe that they will decrease near enough to extinction one day.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by tippy

I can’t wait for these people to get smaller and smaller and whatever happens, I firmly believe that they will decrease near enough to extinction one day.

Sorry, it won't happen. The particular objects of hate may shift over history, but it'll always be there. I think there's a bigotry/xenophobia gene.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

Obama's election hasn't suddenly created all this bigotry and resentment and hatred. It's not surprising at all that people with these feelings are venting them now. What has changed is that enough people did not have these feelings, or had them but weren't ruled by them, to vote Obama into office. It's like when a soccer team wins and supporters of the other team start vandalizing property and getting into fights afterward outside the stadium: it's because they lost. And that is a very good thing.

it's good that they lost this time obviously, but it makes me nervous that Obama is in a virtually impossible situation, having been handed an imploding economy (which will only be worse two months from now). at some point, his honeymoon will end, and he'll be blamed for the continuing problems, which is when this racist sector could really spin out of control.

[tippy]

Well, it comes down to the fear thing previously mentioned. Most human problems, the ones they cause themselves that is, are based on the feeling of insecurity. You can’t get rid of discrimination because you can’t get rid of fear but I refuse to look at this presidency as a mistake/a worse off. Are people thinking McCain was a better option in light of antagonized racists? These are indulgent macabre suppositions. Now that Obama has proved some wrong and been elected, now we have to envision his assassination to keep our view of the world intact?

[Jon Abbey]

are you answering someone specifically?

[tippy]

Also, why is racism a concern now after this site has been transformed into greater homogeneity over the years due to the outcast and fear of people expressing experiences different from the majority. Discrimination exists at Jazz Corner too. Shouldn’t we take care of our own business first?

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

are you answering someone specifically?

I should have quoted Pete. But it also addressing people in general.

[tippy]

I’m not sure exactly why it offends me but can’t we just have one celebratory moment without trying to assert these truly horrific prognostications. It’s like trying to control things – now don’t get too happy people – we could still let the mf’ers take it all away from you. It just feels really wrong to me to project Obama’s murder. I hear other people say it too with a knowing air like I somehow could have missed it and it just kills me to hear it bandied about so casually. I guess I just don’t want it mentioned ever. This is obviously my problem but I think it’s the worst thing that could ever happen. And I guess maybe that is how people felt about Kennedy – crap both of them! - too. I can’t think of a greater waste of much needed talent. If people want to put me in my place by saying same as it ever was ever will be, that’s fine. Few are more cynical about the human race than me but for me it’s not right to casually assume the worse because assuming the worst is the initial step that brings about the worse things.

It starts in our minds and how we think about people – about people we don’t know but have a stake in defining somehow to put ourselves above others and to secure ourselves in positions of higher power to stave off that insecure feeling. This is a fundamental principle of human interaction. That it is something profoundly deep and out of our consciousness is what makes it so dangerous.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by tippy

But it also addressing people in general.

Couldn't you be a little more inclusive?

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

it's good that they lost this time obviously, but it makes me nervous that Obama is in a virtually impossible situation, having been handed an imploding economy (which will only be worse two months from now). at some point, his honeymoon will end, and he'll be blamed for the continuing problems, which is when this racist sector could really spin out of control.

The Bush crowd will walk away from several of the greatest disasters in recent memory, leaving the Obama administration to figure a way out—and I think you're right that at some point the blame will begin to fall on Obama if things don't improve.

Incredible that these crackpot racists still thrive; how unfortunate that the Montes of the world never raise a stink about their fellow ideological travelers.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Paul B

the Montes of the world

The Montes of the world are united!

[Tom Storer]

Of course Obama could be assassinated, any President could and he might be more in danger due to racists being affronted by his victory. But the Secret Service knows that better than we do. Presidents and candidates have been assassinated before, it's not like we're in a brand new situation. And of course Obama is going to get blamed for not solving all problems immediately, and he'll make mistakes and people will point out his feet of clay, etc. But I'm with tippy--just for a little while anyway, can't we have some resolute confidence and stride positively into the future with square shoulders and firm manly jaws (and firm womanly jaws!) instead of being fatalistic, wringing our hands and worrying that it will all come to naught--as if there's no point, we are doomed.

[Gentle Giant]

I'll tell you, I was scared shitless when Obama came out and did his speech the night of the election. This was in a public park that people had been flocking to all day, there couldn't have been a single entryway where people could be searched or checked for metal objects. There were no Secret Service people on stage with him, he was out there alone and I had visions of him going down on live TV. I pretty much held my breath until Biden came out, when at least he had a human shield he could use.

Maybe it's just because I'm a lifelong Lincoln nut and I've relived his assassination thousands of times, but remember what Michael Corleone said, "If anything in this life is certain - if history has taught us anything - it's that you can kill anybody."

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Couldn't you be a little more inclusive?

Well let me ask it this way, if Obama is going to be murdered and/or people will blame blacks for an ineffective presidency – use it as an indicator that they are inferior because we all know most presidents are effective (???) – will it have been better to elect John McCain than to have these outcomes?

I just don’t know what I am supposed to do with this. What is the other side of the dialogue? Do we step up prosecution of hate crimes? That seems problematic too similar to the Patriot Act – hey we could use the Act to step up against terrorists against our stated principles Liberty and Justice for ALL. I like what dave said about how he will continue to marginalize these folks and that is what bred my notion that someday there’s not going to be a privileged class. (Or, really, it will be Spanish speakers.) But I can still say that there is nothing I have wished for more since I learned about slavery than, if not justice for, then at least the good riddance of racism against blacks. As a continuing blight given our history it’s always been 180 degrees from what is rational. How can you even trust at all in a world that perpetuates such abject cruelty? When will we enter the age of reason, the age of enlightenment that was supposed to have occurred so long ago?

[Jon Abbey]

tippy, I look back on this thread and I still don't really understand who you're arguing with/talking to. "I just don’t know what I am supposed to do with this." what do you do with any story you read about events/attitudes entirely out of your control? nothing, presumably.

Tom, it'd be a lot easier to not be fatalistic if I saw any hope of the economy turning around, and I don't just mean in the short-term.

[me wag]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

The scary thing is that a) kids are showing they've been taught well by their hate-filled parents, and b) these same jerks are among the gun nuts of society and there's a pretty strong chance that the USA may have its first assassinated black President before too long. Maybe even before he takes office. Hell, Lincoln had to sneak into Washington when he was first elected.

I don't know, if it's so easy to assassinate a president these days, why wasn't our George Bush assassinated a long time ago by terrorists? Seems like Al-Qaeda could have gotten a quite a significant bang out of that but they didn't even make a significant attempt that we know of. I don't pretend to be an expert about these things, but I'm sure they will make the vulnerabilities very limited just like they have with Bush. Even at Obama's acceptance speech there was a big bullet-proof glass shield in front of him. Of course, I realize that it only takes one little vulnerability to pull if off but it seems like it would almost have to be some kind of inside-job to pull it off.

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

I'll tell you, I was scared shitless when Obama came out and did his speech the night of the election. This was in a public park that people had been flocking to all day, there couldn't have been a single entryway where people could be searched or checked for metal objects. There were no Secret Service people on stage with him, he was out there alone and I had visions of him going down on live TV. I pretty much held my breath until Biden came out, when at least he had a human shield he could use.

Maybe it's just because I'm a lifelong Lincoln nut and I've relived his assassination thousands of times, but remember what Michael Corleone said, "If anything in this life is certain - if history has taught us anything - it's that you can kill anybody."

You know, I’ll be honest, although I wasn’t scared shitless I was thinking the exact same thing, gg. I am absolutely certain that nobody understands his vulnerability better than Obama, but if he was the kind to be ruled by his fear, then he wouldn’t have run. More than his own life, he has his daughters to consider, as to all the parents here I am certain who understand how much more important their own children’s lives are against considering their own. But that’s why he said what he said about this election not being about him. What is to be gained is so much larger than him. I really think he is a principled man but we need to understand that he still has to play politics and politics are about compromise so everything he does is not going to look like his principles.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by me wag

why wasn't our George Bush assassinated a long time ago by terrorists? Seems like Al-Qaeda could have gotten a quite a significant bang out of that

Really? I think he was worth more to them alive.

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

tippy, I look back on this thread and I still don't really understand who you're arguing with/talking to. "I just don’t know what I am supposed to do with this."

What I mean is if there isn’t another side to the supposed negative outcomes as posed on this thread, then what is this but a fatalistic wankfest? Thus, “what am I supposed to do with a fatalistic wankfest?” I am resisting the idea of negative foregone conclusions 12 days after the election. I would pose that racism isn’t going to worsen, it’s just going to be more in your face perhaps than what some are accustomed to. It will be seen more often by a wider group of people.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by tippy

then what is this but a fatalistic wankfest?

Like life!

[tippy]

We are our fatalistic wankfest. I could take that point, Pete.