Penguin Guide to Jazz IX

[bostontricky]

The biennial obsession returns.

In a fit of economy, I passed on the offerings on the shelf at the Harvard Coop Wednesday evening, thinking I'd be able to hold out until Christmas. Alas, that won't be the case, and as soon as I'm done ransacking the couch cushions, I'm out the door.

It's out there...

[baksheesh]

Damn, i saw a copy in the local Chapters but it was too expensive for my budget. I had to read it right there in the shop, must of been there for about two hours, put both my feet to sleep! I think they're delighted there's so much reissued stuff out there, from the likes of Alexander von Schlippenbach and Evan Parker. All too often in previous editions they'd be 'lamenting' some deleted classic from the past, and i'd be reading about it going 'damn i wish we had a halfway decent record shop in this country - i can't even get half the stuff that's in print let alone all the others..."
Anyway, hope you managed to get a copy!

[kenny weir]

Look, I know Australian jazz is like small beer in the bigger brewery for those who live in the northern hemisphere.

But it's also fucking brilliant in so many cases.

The fact that they haven't added to the Australian content, but instead have stripped it away in great massive slabs, means this book is now officially a crock of crap.

I know it's at least down the flood of reissues and newer stuff from all over the world being beyond the practical capacity of any one publication, but how can anyone take it seriously when people such as Scott Tinkler aren't even mentioned?

Fuck off!

[Rob Damen]

Maybe it's the "tinkler" part?!?!?!?

Just sayin'



Cheers,

Rob

[kenny weir]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Maybe it's the "tinkler" part?!?!?!?

Just sayin'



Cheers,

Rob

Why don't you check him out? Incredible trumpeter - simple as that.

[baksheesh]

Anyone particularly agree/disagree with their take on Metheny? I love the Group stuff, and it's one of the few times when i get frustrated with their opinion of an artist. I mean, if my experience is anything to go on they can have a huge influence on a person's listening habits. I'd hate to think of someone bypassing the Groups CDs on the rack perennially and then finding out too late that they're actually fantabulous and foster a deep and abiding connection with them. Sigh....

[Gary Sisco]

Skipping it. I didn't dig the last one I shelled out for. Everytime I went to look something up, it wasn't there, so I had to look it up in an older one. Can't afford it anyway.

[Paul B]

I've never owned one. I don't understand the need for books like this.

[baksheesh]

Originally Posted by Paul B

I've never owned one. I don't understand the need for books like this.

Oh come now sirrah! I grew up in a small town (before the internet took over the world) and i would never have discovered most of the jazz i'm into until much, much later, if at all. I'm sure tons of people are/have been in the same situation. Although i certainly can't afford each new edition i would like to, and i consider it an invaluable resource.
Still, bully for you old chap if you can do without such things, and have the resources and wherewithal to strike boldly ahead regardless...

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by baksheesh

Still, bully for you old chap if you can do without such things, and have the resources and wherewithal to strike boldly ahead regardless...

Thanks old bean. I can indeed do without "guides" to music, thankfully. But I realize this isn't true for people in small places.

[Gary Sisco]

I use them mainly for looking up dates and personnel questions but also sometimes just for extremely casual reading that's not really reading.

[Jesse]

Mine is a ballast for a wobbly computer desk.

[baksheesh]

Originally Posted by Paul B

Thanks old bean. I can indeed do without "guides" to music, thankfully. But I realize this isn't true for people in small places.

True that, true that! However, what about the monetary problem? CDs is danged expensive, and they're cheaper now than they ever were back in the day. How did you find good music? What/Who was your oracle? If you don't mind me asking?

[Chaz Longue]

Originally Posted by baksheesh

Anyone particularly agree/disagree with their take on Metheny? I love the Group stuff, and it's one of the few times when i get frustrated with their opinion of an artist. I mean, if my experience is anything to go on they can have a huge influence on a person's listening habits. I'd hate to think of someone bypassing the Groups CDs on the rack perennially and then finding out too late that they're actually fantabulous and foster a deep and abiding connection with them. Sigh....

It's a rare music writer who gives Metheny his due across the board. Cook and Morton are better than most I think. Usually the recorded work with Charlie Haden, Larry Grenadier, Roy Haynes, Kenny Garrett, Marc Johnson, Joshua Redman, Bill Stewart, Christian McBride, Gary Thomas, Michael Brecker, Derek Bailey and the like gets (some) praise, and the Pat Metheny Group material gets a sniffy dismissal.

In my opinion the Pat Metheny Group's concerts are impressive as hell, and the recordings are often damned good.

Almost nobody mentions his tour with Sonny Rollins. His work with (just to mention a few examples) Cassandra Wilson, Anna Maria Jopek, Michelle Ndegeocello seldom gets more than a mention in passing. His recording of Steve Reich material often goes unmentioned. The sheer breadth of his appearances is remarkable, but he often seems to get pidgeonholed.

Who else has worked with Ornette Coleman ...and Joni Mitchell?

[baksheesh]

Originally Posted by Chaz Longue

In my opinion the Pat Metheny Group's concerts are impressive as hell, and the recordings are often damned good.

Who else has worked with Ornette Coleman ...and Joni Mitchell?

Ha! Damn good call! Shadows and Light was a great album. And the reissue of Song X with all the extra material was a godsend. I was lucky enough to finally catch the Group in action - a few years back in Rome, touring for The Way Up. There was a fantastic moment when they played a song from We Live here, the one with mad all out guitar attack - and when it came to that bit - oh it was beautiful! - Lyle! and another of the guys strapped on guitars and they played that passage riff for riff! Great, great moment for yours truly.
I think i'm almost unique in really enjoying The Sign of 4. I thought the chemistry was great, and instrumentally the line up worked brilliantly - two drummers, getting that tribalistic vibe going. At the end of the CD3 you hear guys in the audience screaming hysterically 'Derek! Derek!'. That would've been me too i can tell you if i'd been at that gig.

[JamesH]

The guide has proven extremely useful through the years as my collection has come up to speed. But now that I've gotten all the old CD's I'll ever need and I keep up to date with the new stuff it's not really necessary.

[baksheesh]

True, but they're great to pass on to younger relatives or friend's kids who are just getting into jazz themselves. Plus the writing style is worth it too - some pretty illuminating remarks, humorous asides and suchlike

[Steve Reynolds]

Paul:

Cook and Morton are terrific writers about the music - so thinking you don't *need* one of these types of books is missing the point. Theye are great reading - plus who else is going to tell us about John Law?

10 years ago, who was going to tell me that Paul Dunmall existed?

[LutherBlissett]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

Paul:

Cook and Morton are terrific writers about the music - so thinking you don't *need* one of these types of books is missing the point. Theye are great reading - plus who else is going to tell us about John Law?

10 years ago, who was going to tell me that Paul Dunmall existed?

Its the most authorative guide by far, Cook and Morton have a far higher level of scholarship of the music than other stuff I have seen like the All Music Guide or Musichound books , those two dont even come close.

after the death of Richard Cook, however Morton has a even more herculean task to carry this on, I think he has questioned the whole reissue flood and also the quality of new releases, must be quite a slog.

[baksheesh]

Originally Posted by LutherBlissett

Its the most authorative guide by far, Cook and Morton have a far higher level of scholarship of the music than other stuff I have seen like the All Music Guide or Musichound books , those two dont even come close.

after the death of Richard Cook, however Morton has a even more herculean task to carry this on, I think he has questioned the whole reissue flood and also the quality of new releases, must be quite a slog.

Yes, plus the grief. I always thought of those two as sort of inseparable boyhood chums, united throughout their differing life courses by the shared bond of a love of Derek Bailey AND Billy Holiday (or some even more outlandish pairing which i just know someone here can come up with a much better one )
Plus, wasn't Cook involved in music promotion or something on those lines? Forgive my ignorance but i only found out about this aspect after reading a Guardian review of "2Ts for a lovely T" and realizing it was more or less his pet project.

[LutherBlissett]

Originally Posted by baksheesh

Yes, plus the grief. I always thought of those two as sort of inseparable boyhood chums, united throughout their differing life courses by the shared bond of a love of Derek Bailey AND Billy Holiday (or some even more outlandish pairing which i just know someone here can come up with a much better one )
Plus, wasn't Cook involved in music promotion or something on those lines? Forgive my ignorance but i only found out about this aspect after reading a Guardian review of "2Ts for a lovely T" and realizing it was more or less his pet project.

Cook was an esteemed music critic one of the finest in UK, wrote about all kinds of music not only jazz

didnt know he had a recording project, mainly know of his work as a writer. Also wrote a jazz encylopedia A-Z of artists.

isnt Morton a saxophonist himself ? I know he had a radio prog. once , maybe a composer too

[baksheesh]

Richard Cook was formerly the UK jazz catalogue manager for PolyGram (1992-97) and also produced albums by the trumpeter Guy Barker. During his spell at PolyGram, Cook launched the short-lived 'Redial' re-issue line of classic British jazz albums. In 2002, he was responsible for issuing a 10 CD limited-edition set by the American avant-garde pianist Cecil Taylor of 1990 recordings, 2Ts for a Lovely T, which was on the Codanza label.

From Wikipedia
Quite a busy fellow, many accomplishments - major bummer that he's gone. Didn't mention Morton as a sax player but he's written a few bios -Prince and Miles to name two.