Obama and Kennedy

[steve(thelil)]

Obama & Kennedy
November 10, 2008, 12:37 pm


This item from the Commonweal.com website gave me the chills (As did news today that Caroline Kennedy might be interested in filling Hillary's seat.)
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Obama & Kennedy
November 10, 2008, 12:37 pm, by Paul Baumann

President-elect Barack Obama’s charisma, intelligence, and youth often caused commentators to compare him to John F. Kennedy. The endorsement of Obama by Caroline Kennedy and Sen. Edward Kennedy cemented the comparison, as did the obvious parallel between what Kennedy’s election represented for American Catholics and what Obama’s means to African Americans. I recently had occasion to look back at what Commonweal’s editors had to say after certain crucial presidential elections, and I was once again struck by the strong similarities between the two men, and especially the treacherous political landscapes each had to navigate in being elected. Excerpted below are a few graphs from Commonweal’s November 18, 1960, editorial:

We regard the decision which has been made by the American people not only as a critical comment on the past, not merely as a desire for a change, but as a sign of their trust in the future–and in this man whose full measure this country and the world have yet to take….

Senator Kennedy first had to overcome strong and articulate opposition within his own party. Some of the sharpest thrusts at the Senator were delivered by other Democrats before his nomination. Yet after the nomination he enlisted those people in his vigorous campaign. Although he backed the most liberal Democratic platform yet produced, he gained support in the South. Although many were distressed at his choice for Vice President, he extended his strength in Northern liberal areas. And he convinced those committed people who initially felt they would rather lose with Stevenson than win with anyone else that his battle was worth fighting….

We have no desire to turn a man into a legend before his time. Nevertheless, we think that Senator Kennedy promises to be the kind of leader who can accomplish many of these things. Not only has he the qualities enumerated by Mr. [Walter] Lippmann, but he has that intangible quality of charisma. Even while the political commentators were decrying his intellectual, unemotional approach people responded to him with a kind of excitement and enthusiasm that has not been visited upon this country since the days of Roosevelt. In directing his country through the times ahead, this quality can be a factor of incalculable importance.

[Ron Thorne]

And now, Caroline Kennedy may be poised to become a U.S. Senator, so things may be coming full circle ... once again.

[Dr Dave]

We suffer a dramatic attack (9/11) and in a panic, we throw our civil liberties out the window. Now we're going to have an aristocracy. Lovely.

[steve(thelil)]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

We suffer a dramatic attack (9/11) and in a panic, we throw our civil liberties out the window. Now we're going to have an aristocracy. Lovely.

I don't disagree with anything my online role model Doc said (the snarky old coot) - and I don't like the concept of government by nepotism.

But I would put those principles aside because I love Caroline Kennedy.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/0...kennedy.gi.jpg

[tippy]

I don’t know much about Caroline Kennedy and I trust the people who like her like her for the right reasons but I have to agree with dave. It seems our brains are so loose in this nation that we look now at some panacea by celebrity in our politics as promising. These are desperate, desperate times. Only to get worse. The bailout has been a deep, deep travesty – the naked pitting of the government against the citizen - and a failure. Now we’re getting thrown the genteel daughter of an assassinated President. Aristocracy indeed. Dave you hit it on the head.

[steve(thelil)]

Originally Posted by tippy

I don’t know much about Caroline Kennedy and I trust the people who like her like her for the right reasons but I have to agree with dave. It seems our brains are so loose in this nation that we look now at some panacea by celebrity in our politics as promising. These are desperate, desperate times. Only to get worse. The bailout has been a deep, deep travesty – the naked pitting of the government against the citizen - and a failure. Now we’re getting thrown the genteel daughter of an assassinated President. Aristocracy indeed. Dave you hit it on the head.

All True.

That said, I Love Caroline Kennedy.

Nyah, Nyah.

[tippy]

That’s cool, thelil. It’s worthy news for certain as a possible event. She seems like a very nice lady. So is my mom.

[steve(thelil)]

Originally Posted by tippy

That’s cool, thelil. It’s worthy news for certain as a possible event. She seems like a very nice lady. So is my mom.

I'd vote for your mom, if you thought it was a good idea.

[tippy]

I love my mom - there is not a kinder, more gentle soul in this world but she is simply not New York Senate material. So thanks, but it’s not a good idea.

[LennyH]

I imagine the Republicans will start to campaign pretty hard against Caroline getting the Senate seat. Like Obama when he entered the Senate, she would be on the fast track for Dem leadership. Good for Dems, bad for Repubs at a time when they are lacking leadership.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

We suffer a dramatic attack (9/11) and in a panic, we throw our civil liberties out the window. Now we're going to have an aristocracy. Lovely.

I had the same thought when I heard she was asking for the seat. What qualifications, outside of her family ties, does she have to be a senator? Then again her moron cousin, Patrick, seems to illustrate that it might not take much to be a congressperson.

I've always admired Caroline, BTW, for pretty much the same reason as thelil.

[hornplayer]

Originally Posted by tippy

I love my mom - there is not a kinder, more gentle soul in this world but she is simply not New York Senate material. So thanks, but it’s not a good idea.

Her resume may be a little thin compared to established politicos, but her intelligence is pretty well documented. Not to mention exhibited.

I think she'd be a great choice, but like thelil, I also love Caroline Kennedy.

[Monte Smith]

I think Caroline, with all her charm and intellect, should run for a Senate seat. If she's installed in one without an election, I guess it is because New York owes the seat that is Clinton's (by right of marriage) to the Kennedy family in exchange for Ted's endorsement of Barack.

[hornplayer]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

I think Caroline, with all her charm and intellect, should run for a Senate seat. If she's installed in one without an election, I guess it is because New York owes the seat that is Clinton's (by right of marriage) to the Kennedy family in exchange for Ted's endorsement of Barack.

At this moment in history, a senator is GOING to be appointed (anointed?) to replace H. Clinton. That person will likely be the elected one in 2010. so why shouldn't that be Caroline Kennedy? Anyone you would rather see appointed to the seat?

I don't know where you get those so-called "rights" to the seat, but I suppose Caroline has some too... It WAS her Uncle Bobby's seat.

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

I think Caroline, with all her charm and intellect, should run for a Senate seat. If she's installed in one without an election, I guess it is because New York owes the seat that is Clinton's (by right of marriage) to the Kennedy family in exchange for Ted's endorsement of Barack.

So it's true...you really are a monarchist.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by hornplayer

At this moment in history, a senator is GOING to be appointed (anointed?) to replace H. Clinton. That person will likely be the elected one in 2010. so why shouldn't that be Caroline Kennedy? Anyone you would rather see appointed to the seat?

I don't know where you get those so-called "rights" to the seat, but I suppose Caroline has some too... It WAS her Uncle Bobby's seat.

You're right, this is going to be an appointment and not an election. The NY governor can appoint anyone he chooses. I think that if Caroline Kennedy wants to begin a career in politics, she should submit that proposition to the votes of New Yorkers and not waltz ashore on the foam of dynastic nostalgia. Should. Doesn't have to. It'd be harder but nobler to go the election route. Still whatever. There are plenty of people in the northeast who are not named Kennedy who can do the work of government on this temporary basis, say, if the representation of New Yorkers is the chief object here and not the satisfaction of Dem party grandees.

[tippy]

Hey, no fair discriminating against dynastic nostalgia.

[Ron Thorne]

Tippy for Senate. Yeah!

I'd vote for ya, tip.

I'd likely vote for Caroline too, if given the chance — and not because it might cause foam to spill from Monte, either.

[steve(thelil)]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

You're right, this is going to be an appointment and not an election. The NY governor can appoint anyone he chooses. I think that if Caroline Kennedy wants to begin a career in politics, she should submit that proposition to the votes of New Yorkers and not waltz ashore on the foam of dynastic nostalgia. Should. Doesn't have to. It'd be harder but nobler to go the election route. Still whatever. There are plenty of people in the northeast who are not named Kennedy who can do the work of government on this temporary basis, say, if the representation of New Yorkers is the chief object here and not the satisfaction of Dem party grandees.

This is Caroline Kennedy. Beautiful, kind, orphaned daughter of JFK, who to a kid of the Mickey Mantle, Cassius Clary era was even bigger and better, and Jackie, who you had to love back then. Caroline is the only one left of the Camelot family. Even her beloved brother Jon-Jon died a tragic death. She's never been actively involved in politics, but has spent every single public moment on behalf of good causes. She has degrees from Radcliffe and Columbia Law School, and past employment with the Metropolitan Museum of Art. She married a slightly schlubby, brilliant Jewish guy.

Conclusion: If she was appointed, it would have the somewhat slimy appearance of nepotism and imperialism and be deemed worthy as mentioning in the same sentence as 9/11 by people usually wiser than myself. Nonetheless, she would have the immediate respect of everyone she meets. She would immediately have more clout on behalf of New York Constituents than any other first time Senator. I don't question her values or sincerity or work ethic.

And it's not like it would usually be an election, but since she's a Kennedy they're just appointing her. Whoever gets it is going to be appointed. I accept that by revered, traditional standards, she's not "qualified." , but is the person who will otherwise get it be better or more effective?

And, if I haven't ,mentioned it, I FUCKING LOVE CAROLINE KENNEDY.

PS. I walked by her a couple of times (when she was in her teens) at the RFK pro-celebrity tennis tournament they used to have at Forest Hills in the early (to mid?) 70's. And my college girlfriend, Wendy, invited Carolline to her birthday party when Caroline was a little kid in the White House (and Wendy was a little kid, not in the White House.)

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by steve(thelil)

She's never been actively involved in politics, but has spent every single public moment on behalf of good causes. She has degrees from Radcliffe and Columbia Law School, and past employment with the Metropolitan Museum of Art. She married a slightly schlubby, brilliant Jewish guy.

All very nice, but not particularly compelling otherwise, IMHO.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally Posted by steve(thelil)

Obama & Kennedy
November 10, 2008, 12:37 pm


This item from the Commonweal.com website gave me the chills (As did news today that Caroline Kennedy might be interested in filling Hillary's seat.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama & Kennedy
November 10, 2008, 12:37 pm, by Paul Baumann

President-elect Barack Obama’s charisma, intelligence, and youth often caused commentators to compare him to John F. Kennedy. The endorsement of Obama by Caroline Kennedy and Sen. Edward Kennedy cemented the comparison, as did the obvious parallel between what Kennedy’s election represented for American Catholics and what Obama’s means to African Americans. I recently had occasion to look back at what Commonweal’s editors had to say after certain crucial presidential elections, and I was once again struck by the strong similarities between the two men, and especially the treacherous political landscapes each had to navigate in being elected. Excerpted below are a few graphs from Commonweal’s November 18, 1960, editorial:

We regard the decision which has been made by the American people not only as a critical comment on the past, not merely as a desire for a change, but as a sign of their trust in the future–and in this man whose full measure this country and the world have yet to take….

Senator Kennedy first had to overcome strong and articulate opposition within his own party. Some of the sharpest thrusts at the Senator were delivered by other Democrats before his nomination. Yet after the nomination he enlisted those people in his vigorous campaign. Although he backed the most liberal Democratic platform yet produced, he gained support in the South. Although many were distressed at his choice for Vice President, he extended his strength in Northern liberal areas. And he convinced those committed people who initially felt they would rather lose with Stevenson than win with anyone else that his battle was worth fighting….

We have no desire to turn a man into a legend before his time. Nevertheless, we think that Senator Kennedy promises to be the kind of leader who can accomplish many of these things. Not only has he the qualities enumerated by Mr. [Walter] Lippmann, but he has that intangible quality of charisma. Even while the political commentators were decrying his intellectual, unemotional approach people responded to him with a kind of excitement and enthusiasm that has not been visited upon this country since the days of Roosevelt. In directing his country through the times ahead, this quality can be a factor of incalculable importance.

Obama: The Black JFK.


I like it

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

All very nice, but not particularly compelling otherwise, IMHO.

Who ever suggested that politicians should be "compelling".

At least Caroline Kennedy might just be smarter, more patient and less easy to influence than many in Washington. That's a starting point.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by Ron Thorne

Who ever suggested that politicians should be "compelling".

At least Caroline Kennedy might just be smarter, more patient and less easy to influence than many in Washington. That's a starting point.

You may be right, Ron, but as of now the only reason she is in the running is because of her family connections, which don't tell us much about her patience and immunity to influence. Like I said above, I like Caroline, at least what I know of her, but that doesn't mean I'd necessarily vote for her for a senate seat.

[steve(thelil)]

I'm not saying that she has the best resume. (But it might be as good as whoever else might be appointed.) And, due to her connections and her background, she is likely to be more effective than anyone else who might be appointed. The main point is, with her education, charm, connections, intelligence and background, worse things could happen than her being appointed.

But what I'm really saying is, I LOVE CAROLINE KENNEDY.


Which isn't to say I might not throw my support to the giant Lebanese potato

http://news.aol.com/article/lebanese...-potato/270505

[jesus marion joseph]

That is surely a large potato, but I have difficulty believing that someone, somewhere in the entire potato growing world, must have tilled a tuber larger that that.

[steve(thelil)]

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

That is surely a large potato, but I have difficulty believing that someone, somewhere in the entire potato growing world, must have tilled a tuber larger that that.

Now I'm sure you're just being all contrarian.

[rollhead]

If I am not mistaken, JMJ is on record for being a long-time Kennedy hater, unwillnig to let go of Chappaquidick, as if that has some kind of relevance to the 2008 electorate.

So, I discount JMJ's opinion on this matter.

The fact is that Ted Kennedy is one of the few remaining people on the national stage who have fought for working class and middle class. He has never let the PUBLIC down.

Caroline seems to be in the same mold as her uncle and her cousin, RFKjr (who would be my first choice for the seat).

NO one. NO one. on the national stage seems capable of speaking truth to power -- and that includes Obama. Caroline Kennedy has no reason to fear power, and nothing to gain by toadying to it.

The fact that she married a jewish schlub is, indeed, relevant to me because she apparently married someone she loved, and not out of an interest in gaining money, fame or power. (However, the Schulb has a PhD from Columbia and has written numerous books.)

While I think Glenn Greenwald is brilliant, his point glosses over the obvious -- anyone appointed to that position will have some heavy-duty connections.

Personally, I would prefer someone such as clearly capable, professional and intelligent as Caroline Kennedy, who has distinguished herself in private life over three decades, than some political whore and former butt-boy to David Dinkens, Percy Sutton, or David Paterson's father, Basil Paterson.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by rollhead

Caroline seems to be in the same mold as her uncle and her cousin, RFKjr (who would be my first choice for the seat).

"Seems to be in the mold of." OK, that's good enough for me. I thought it was just a case of her sharing the same DNA.

The fact that she married a jewish schlub is, indeed, relevant to me because she apparently married someone she loved, and not out of an interest in gaining money, fame or power.

Though she might have found it easier to reject the allure of money, fame, and power what with having been invested with all three at her birth.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by steve(thelil)

Now I'm sure you're just being all contrarian.

You may be right. In my defense, it is Monday, which is generally a crappy day and a good one to get out all that contrarian angst.

Originally Posted by rollhead

If I am not mistaken, JMJ is on record for being a long-time Kennedy hater, unwillnig to let go of Chappaquidick, as if that has some kind of relevance to the 2008 electorate.

So, I discount JMJ's opinion on this matter.

I'm curious where you get the "long time Kennedy Hater" and "unwilling to let go of Chappaquidick" stuff from. I'd be surprised if I posted anything about Chappaquidick in many years, or even mentioned it.

There are some Kennedy's for whom I have contempt, but I'm actually friendly with one member of the clan, and Ted has grown on me over the years.

[Gentle Giant]

I'm a big Kennedy family fan, but I've seen Caroline in person and while she's no doubt very intelligent, she's always struck me as having a kind of opiated, deer in the headlights look about her. I don't think she's big on gravitas, and she speaks in a slow monotone. I've never seen her get excited about anything. I'm not saying she's on something, though given her family's history (including her brother's tragic death), I wouldn't be surprised if she was (and would probably be concerned if she wasn't). But I honestly can't see her as senator of New York State, considering she's done nothing even remotely like it before.