What Do the NYers Think About This Caroline Kennedy Thing?

[walto]

I know, I myself was pissed when Joe K. decided at the last minute that, hey, I'm kinda bored, I think I'll be a Congressman. I was working for one of about 5 campaigns all of whose candidates had been working/planning for years for a Congressional opening. They all had to fold up shop and file papers to retain their current posts when Joe figured he'd like to do something else for awhile and everybody in the media started drooling heavily.

[Al in NYC]

Why not replace one female celebrity senator with another? Given her uncle's legislative record, and her family's and her own history, I'm reasonably certain that I'll prefer her to Hillary. And she's actually from New York too.

[Jon Abbey]

one of the suggestions The New Yorker made was William Kennedy, but maybe he's a little too old at 80.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Kennedy

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by Al in NYC

Why not replace one female celebrity senator with another?

I'm sure you can think of a reason.

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

one of the suggestions The New Yorker made was William Kennedy, but maybe he's a little too old at 80.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Kennedy

If this guy's moved to NY, maybe we can get him:

[Pete C]

This Kennedy has serious upstate cred:

[rollhead]

William Kennedy lives down the road from me. He is an asshole, and would never get my vote.

For all of you who worry that someone as undeserving as Caroline Kennedy might get the job, you shouldn't bother.

David Paterson, who is the son of a local Harlem political celebrity, Basil Paterson, will most likely appoint some person who has the right political "experience." No doubt someone who was a long-time bagman for Charlie Rangel, or another august New York State pol, who is now or was previously under investigation for some kind of abuse of office.

Or, perhaps an associate of our august butt-boy for Wall Street, Chuck Schumer, who I am sure Gordie would approve of since he scored a perfect 1600 on his SATs, as we are so often told. (I've heard rumors around Albany that Schumer's SAT scores were higher than William Kennedy's)

Or maybe the former state employee of Alan Hevesi, our ex-state Comptroller; the "public servant" responsible for procuring Mrs. Hevesi's curtains and picking up her dry cleaning.

Or a former press officer for the famous prosecutor of prostitution rings, Eliot Spitzer.

No, there are several armies of former political whores, pimps, shake down artists and other assorted con men with the right kind of political experience designing push polls, talking out of both sides of their mouths and tallying up the political dues they are allegedly "owed" -- but most likely created out of whole cloth -- to satisfy Walto's desire to see a New York politician of stature receiving the appointment.

As for Hillary Clinton being a "celebrity Senator," I should remind you that she had many years experience representing Wal Mart and Tyson Foods for Rose Law Firm in Little Rock before she became a national celebrity.

Having fought for those icons of middle class values, Sam Walton and Don Tyson, I had no doubt she was prepared to take that 3am phone call in case of a Wall Street meltdown or assault on American corporate assets abroad.

So, Walto, please don't stay up tossing and turning at 3am, worried that Caroline Kennedy might be the next junior U.S. Senator from New York, snatching it away from a more deserving person with a long resume of experience at selling favors, log rolling and political sleight of hand.

She clearly doesn't have the required political "seasoning" to be accepted by the political elite here in New York State. I can't imagine her ever fetching coffee for Sheldon Silver or Percy Sutton or Arthur Eve or Stanley Fink, among others, which is really what passes for "political experience" here.

[Tom Storer]

Shall we assume you are a Caroline Kennedy supporter?

[tippy]

Not much of a feeling one way or the other at this point. How about Eliot Spitzer? He's available.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by rollhead

William Kennedy lives down the road from me. He is an asshole,

That wouldn't surprise me. I tried to read one of his books--Ironweed? Ironwood?--and couldn't get through the plodding prose, and he seems to be of that generation of drunken macho American male novelists.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Pete C

That wouldn't surprise me. I tried to read one of his books--Ironweed? Ironwood?--and couldn't get through the plodding prose, and he seems to be of that generation of drunken macho American male novelists.

"Legs" is an excellent novel, as is "Billy Phelan's Greatest Game."

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Pete C

That wouldn't surprise me. I tried to read one of his books--Ironweed? Ironwood?--and couldn't get through the plodding prose, and he seems to be of that generation of drunken macho American male novelists.

My last encounter with William Kennedy was in an Albany restaurant where he was sitting at a table next to me, Don Byron, and another of Don's students. After our lesson, the three of us had gone to the restaurant to knock back a couple of drinks. While we were laughing, hooting and generally cutting up, Kennedy took quick breaks from his pontificating to an audience of two to shoot daggers at me. Apparently, he wasn't used to lecturing over the kind of background noise we were providing. Had I known he was going to be there, I would have suggested to Byron that he bring his bass clarinet, and softly play the Dance of the Marionettes while Kennedy held court.

[Pete C]

Hey Rollie, does Lydia Davis ever do readings in Albany (she teaches there)?

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

Shall we assume you are a Caroline Kennedy supporter?

Don't know if I consider myself a Carloline Kennedy supporter, as much as someone who is profoundly cynical about the alternative of picking someone who has paid their "political dues."

I have spent too much time in Albany, dealing with New York politicians, who I consider, for the most part, to be incredibly disgusting human beings.

I used to work for New York State Senate Democrats, and the "members," treated anyone who couldn't provide them something useful as scum.

One example was the former Sen. Ada Smith:

She typically referred to her female staff membes as "c**ts."

Smith's former Chief-of-Staff, Philip Mahlke, quit after 8 months due to her abusive language, including statements about Mr. Mahlke's sexuality.

She went through over 200 staff members in her 17 years in the Senate

New York City police used mace to bring Smith under control after she allegedly bit an officer during a traffic stop in Brooklyn.

While Smith is an extreme example of the behavior of New York state pols, it is only because, in general, New York state officeholders are more subtle abusers.

A friend of mine had the experience of being called in the middle of the night, during a blizzard, and told to meet a "member" -- whom he didn't work for directly -- to deliver something to her, ASAP.

I could go on and on, siting examples of officeholder behavior, and abuse of their office.

Andrew Cuomo is another abuser, or at least he was in the past. (I've been told he's learned his "lesson")

Of course, this type of scum isn't unique to New York. I hear Chicago has its fair share.

And there are exceptions, of course

People tell me that Mario Cuomo must have been hell to work for. He was a real gentleman, with integrity, compared to the majority of pols I have encountered.

One guy who comes to mind as a real decent, honorable person, in public office is the State Senator from Albany, Neil Breslin.

But Breslin is too dowdy, dumpy and decent to get a serious look.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Hey Rollie, does Lydia Davis ever do readings in Albany (she teaches there)?

Pete, one good thing that William Kennedy has done is support the New York State Writer's Institute. (Okay, maybe he isn't an asshole afterall.... )

I don't know if Lydia Davis has done readings through the Writer's Institute, but it wouldn't surprise me.

http://www.albany.edu/writers-inst/

In 1983, Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist William Kennedy founded the Writers Institute at Albany with part of a fellowship awarded him from the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation in Chicago. As part of that award, fifteen thousand dollars for five years went to the institution of Kennedy’s choice, the University at Albany, State University of New York. The University made a commitment to match those funds.

Less than a year later, Governor Mario M. Cuomo signed into law the legislation creating the New York State Writers Institute, giving it goals and responsibilities to conduct a broad range of cultural and educational literary activities. The Writers Institute has a mandate to provide "a milieu for established and aspiring writers to work together to increase the freedom of the artistic imagination," and "to encourage the development of writing skills at all levels of education throughout the state." Tom Smith, UAlbany English Department professor worked with Kennedy in the organization and development of the Writers Institute and served as the Institute’s Associate Director for its first ten years.


Oh, Pete, here is another recent (fall 2008) thing about her I found:
http://readme.readmedia.com/news/sho...rkshops/283197



It is a great program. My daughter attended the "Young Writer's Institute" two years running.

http://www.albany.edu/writers-inst/sywibrochure.pdf

[Gary Sisco]

Man, I totally disagree with Pete about William Kennedy. I think he's very good, indeed.

And he has the plus of actually knowing the state of New York, unlike the rootless celebs who don't really live anywhere. Not that he'd want such a job.

Having spent many years with winos and hoboes, I think *Ironweed* is the best depiction of that subculture.

[Sergio Zamora]

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by rollhead

http://www.albany.edu/writers-inst/

Thanks for the link--I just discovered that my old friend Lynne Tillman is teaching up there.

[jazzy mary]

Wow, Ada Smith sounds like a nut job. I'm for Caroline Kennedy. She's smart, seems decent (despite her grandfather) and I think she'll try to do a lot for New York.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by jazzy mary

Wow, Ada Smith sounds like a nut job. I'm for Caroline Kennedy. She's smart, seems decent (despite her grandfather) and I think she'll try to do a lot for New York.

We can only pick our friends, not our relatives. I'll bet that if you checked out the backgrounds of all your elected and appointed officials, there would be plenty of them who wouldn't be where they are though without their prestigeous relatives or influential friends.
Carolyn Kennedy has never, as far as I know, used her relationship to two very beloved, or at least very well-known relatives, to personally profit.
She seems to me to be at least as qualified to be a senator as anyone else who aspires to, or holds the office now.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by patricia

Carolyn Kennedy has never, as far as I know, used her relationship to two very beloved, or at least very well-known relatives, to personally profit.

She was born rich. What should she have to do to profit? She was born with the profit. And now, according to rumor, she is about to be appointed senator for no reason but her relatives. Never profited? You mean she's never done anything rough to profit. She hasn't had to. That doesn't make her a saint it only makes her a Kennedy and that shouldn't make her senatorial material as instantly as it does in a lot of minds.

[Sergio Zamora]

I find myself in the disturbing position of agreeing with Monte in a political thread.

I don't like it.

I'm scared...

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

I find myself in the disturbing position of agreeing with Monte in a political thread.

I don't like it.

I'm scared...

I find myself agreeing with Monte AND Sergio in a political thread. Should I be scared?

[Gordon B]

Steven Chapman has it right

[tippy]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

She was born rich. What should she have to do to profit? She was born with the profit. And now, according to rumor, she is about to be appointed senator for no reason but her relatives. Never profited? You mean she's never done anything rough to profit. She hasn't had to. That doesn't make her a saint it only makes her a Kennedy and that shouldn't make her senatorial material as instantly as it does in a lot of minds.

Just out of curiosity and thinking along the same lines, what were George Bush’s qualifications to be President or a governor exactly? I mean besides Karl Rove.

Not that this would provide a defense of Caroline’s ascendancy. Her appointment doesn’t sound right to me but in the face of everything else that’s going on now or has gone on before, it’s just another headscratcher at the end of long, long list.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

I find myself agreeing with Monte AND Sergio in a political thread. Should I be scared?

I don't know but I am scared. When you and Monte agree that ususally brings a mess.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Uli

I don't know but I am scared. When you and Monte agree that ususally brings a mess.

What happens when we disagree?

[Uli]

It has upside potential.

[walto]

You can add me to the Monte, Gordon, Sergio list on this one.

Gandhis and Nehrus notwithstanding, I'm not terribly fond of the concept of hereditary democracy.

[jesus marion joseph]

I'm still ambivalent about this matter, but it's not as though she's seeking appointment to a lifetime tenure. She *would* have to stand for election in a couple of years, then again in a couple years' time. That said, were I a New York voter I would probably feel more comfortable if she had some other government experience under her belt, BWTFDIK?