10 Bassists With Best Arco (Bowing) Technique

[Capt. W./TX.]

In alphabetical order:

Richard Davis
Dominic Duval
Michael Formanek
Eddie Gomez
Drew Gress
Mark Helias
Dave Holland
John Lindberg
Buell Neidlinger
Lynn Seaton

[Pete C]

Some favorites off the top of my head:

Slam Stewart
Paul Chambers
Renaud Garcia-Fons

[Sergio Zamora]

Clay and I saw the Marks Bros (Dresser and Helias) tearing up an arco storm last year.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

David Izenzon

Joelle Leandre

Christian McBride

Edgar Meyer



and seconds for

John Lindberg

Dominic Duval

Dave Holland

Michael Formanek

Mark Helias

Mark Dresser

[Tom Storer]

I'm not sure I would recognize "good arco technique" if I heard it. I do note that in general, jazz bassists don't sound *anything* like classical bassists when they play arco. Most of them sound pretty rough around the edges to me - Paul Chambers, for example, loved his arco solos, and so do I, but I don't know if in terms of "good technique" they're all that.

BWTFDIK?

[Pete C]

Tom, in this case I interpreted "technique" to mean "approach" rather than "technical prowess."

[Tom Storer]

Oh, you did, did you? Well, be that as it may.


[not bad for a completely meaningless post if I do so say so myself]

[Derek Taylor]

I’d add:

Bertram Turetzky
Jean-Jacques Avenel
&
William Parker

Turetzky edges out Davis by a narrow margin at the top.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Tom Storer
BWTFDIK?

Tom, there are young people here. Can't you say BWTHDIK?

[frankpop1]

I'm not sure I would recognize "good arco technique" if I heard it. I do note that in general, jazz bassists don't sound *anything* like classical bassists when they play arco.

that's becuz most jazz bass players are terrible at arco technique. i think that most listed above fail to *practice* the technique to my ears. usually an improvised arco solo is worse than a bad drum solo, altho i find that there is some clear winners who are pretty skilled.

1. dominic duval
2. peter kowald
3. joelle leandre
Barre Phillips
Maarten Altena
Barry Guy
Miroslav Vitous
jean-francois jenny-clark


how bout cellist tom ulrich

[graypencil]

nothing at all wrong with the Capn.'s list ..

but I'd add John Clayton to that list as well ..

This year at the Centrum jazzfest, I heard him play a solo
"medley" of Bachs' Air on a G string ..and ..One Mint Julep !

and it worked!! ..

besides which, John is such a great guy personally ..

[Samuel]

Assuming you're not looking for "Gary Karr," let's not omit Michael Moore. D'ya think Stan Clarke gets on the list, too?

[hornplayer]

I'd add Ron Carter.....
originally a classical cellist....

[Capt. W./TX.]

I picked the names I did largely because they have good-to-excellent intonation when they use the bow and an overall mastery of arco playing that-to my ears, anyway-is pretty close to what you'd expect from a professional section bassist in one of the major symphony orchestras.

Incidently, Davis and Neidlinger both have legit orchestra experience-maybe some of the others as well.
(Neidlinger is also a cellist).

A couple of items worth considering: most jazz bassists have their instruments set up primarily for pizzicato playing. The position of the sound post inside the instrument and the height of the strings over the fingerboard is all calculated to get the best-and biggest-possible sound from their bass while playing pizzicato. Their use of the bow is usually confined to endings on ballads, etc. The jazz bassists that use the bow often will have their instruments set up to sound great either played pizzacato or arco (really good basses that can be set up this way are often quite expensive!)

Another point is that most jazz bassists will sound fairly in tune playing normal pizzicato, but have serious sound and intonation problems when they do use the bow. The pitch problems playing arco are usually most obvious while the player is bowing on the upper two strings (using the so-called 'thumb positions' where the thumb is used in additioin to the fingers to stop the strings). The higher up in pitch you go on rthe instument,
the harder it is to play in tune.

One jazz bassist who gets a truly beautiful arco sound in the upper register, with excellent intonation-almost like a cello-is Eddie Gomez.

Oscar Pettiford was one of the true jazz greats-but arco was not his thing. Paul Chambers bowed solos were
among his stock-in-trade, but his intonation and overall sound while playing arco was not exactly legit-grade; at least not compared to the ten on my list.

Ray Brown mostly avoided arco playing-especially solo, although he had apparently invested time in some legit
bass study and had many admirers among classical bassists.

[Capt. W./TX.]

I picked the names I did largely because they have good-to-excellent intonation when they use the bow and an overall mastery of arco playing that-to my ears, anyway-is pretty close to what you'd expect from a professional section bassist in one of the major symphony orchestras.

Incidently, Davis and Neidlinger both have legit orchestra experience-maybe some of the others as well.
(Neidlinger is also a cellist).

A couple of items worth considering: most jazz bassists have their instruments set up primarily for pizzicato playing. The position of the sound post inside the instrument and the height of the strings over the fingerboard is all calculated to get the best-and biggest-possible sound from their bass while playing pizzicato. Their use of the bow is usually confined to endings on ballads, etc. The jazz bassists that use the bow often will have their instruments set up to sound great either played pizzicato or arco (really good basses that can be set up this way are often quite expensive!)

Another point is that most jazz bassists will sound fairly in tune playing normal pizzicato, but have serious sound and intonation problems when they do use the bow. The pitch problems playing arco are usually most obvious while the player is bowing on the upper two strings (using the so-called 'thumb positions, where the thumb is used in additioin to the fingers to stop the strings). The higher up in pitch you go on the instrument,
the harder it is to play in tune.

One jazz bassist who gets a truly beautiful arco sound in the upper register, with excellent intonation-almost like a cello-is Eddie Gomez.

Oscar Pettiford was one of the true jazz greats-but arco was not his thing; his intonation with the bow was mostly inferior. Paul Chambers bowed solos were among his stock-in-trade, but his intonation and overall sound while playing arco was not exactly legit-grade; at least not compared to the ten on my list.

Ray Brown mostly avoided arco playing-especially solo, although he had apparently invested time in some legit
bass study and had many admirers among classical bassists.

[James Lee]

Bob Magnusson is a an absolute monster arco style. Great intonation, vibrato control, and his huge sound make for sheer jazzsonic bliss. Bob was originally a classical French Horn player 'till he heard Kind of Blue and put down the horn for the bass & jazz. It's clear that he holds himself to classical standards with regard to arco performance.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by James Lee
Bob Magnusson is a an absolute monster arco style. Great intonation, vibrato control, and his huge sound make for sheer jazzsonic bliss. Bob was originally a classical French Horn player 'till he heard Kind of Blue and put down the horn for the bass & jazz. It's clear that he holds himself to classical standards with regard to arco performance.

Does he gig a lot in So. Cal.? I only know him from Pepper's "Among Friends" and some Mark Murphy albums. He has a great, pure, resonant pizz. tone.

[Fred K]

I've enjoyed Dan Berglund, the bassist of E. S. T., the 2 times I've seem him live. He is featured quite a bit with the band. He solos some, but much of the arco playing comes with the arrangements. He has a nice sound and it works with E. S T. is doing. I often cringe when I see a bassist reach for the bow (even the best ones), so Berglund is quite enjoyable for me.

[frankpop1]

excellent thread idea. im tuned in, now, like never b4


just heard john clayton pull off a nice tiny arco solo on mcpartlands benny carter' songbook.
i also just caught some great work on sun ra's live at montreaux recording. Hayes Burnett - Bass

Davis and Neidlinger both have legit orchestra experience-maybe some of the others as well

im sure that youll agree that MERE orch experience or good intonation and tone should be no guarantee for a slot on the list for top ten 'IMPROVISORS'.........

for example, i intentionally left off dave holland. holland sounds like a very strong technical arco player, but i always found his arco playing to be boring with no passion, 0, while I FIND most of the rest of his work quite interesting.

i think i heard magnussen play some great arco on a kellaway recording yrs back.

[frankpop1]

Does he gig a lot in So. Cal.?

as if there are a lot jazz gigs in so calif.

[SEK]

François Rabbath
Richard Davis
Barre Phillips
Dave Holland
David Izenzon
Mark Helias
Cecil McBee

[James Lee]

Pete C - yes, Bob makes San Diego his home. Years ago he lived in L.A. and I believe that was during his association with Art Pepper. BTW, it was one year after he picked up the acoustic bass that he went on the road with Buddy Rich.

frankpop -- I understand your distinction regarding great improvisors. IMO Bob fits that catagory. I enjoy his lyrical lines, phrasing, beautiful sound - basically the whole package while understanding that this is a highly subjective area we're talking about. And I'm trying to figure out your somewhat dismissive remark regarding the SoCal jazz scene. Clearly San Diego's scene can't compare with that of L.A.'s, (in terms of *quantity*) but are you suggesting that there is nothing happening in either city?

There is some great talent in San Diego, frankpop. I get my fill of live jazz between what happens in the local clubs, concert venues, and the occasional jump up the coast to Steamers Cafe in Fullerton. Mr. Robinson can back me up on the caliber of the players here, and talk to jazzymary about what she thought of a guitarist by the name of Peter Sprague.

[Uli]

I'd like to add Fred Hopkins to the list. After he moved back to Chicago I heard him often live in more relaxed situations and he used the bow much more than I remember from his recordings. He often presented some stuff he was working on for a future Fred Hopkins solo album which unfortunately never came to pass.

[bluenoter]

A "third" (or fourth, or whatever) for Richard Davis.

Richard Davis is now in his early 70's, a professor at the Univ. of Wisconsin. A graduate of the "Univ. of Sarah Vaughan," he is not only a great bassist but also a wonderful gentleman.
Blooper

[Capt. W./TX.]

Richard Davis was always a powerhouse: one of the major jazz bassists of the last four decades. His level of instrumental mastery and overall musicianship were factors that reset the bar for jazz bassists all over the world.

Along with Scott LaFaro, Gary Peacock and Steve Swallow, Davis created new options for the bass in a jazz ensemble-in some cases, redefining the traditional role of the bass player. He added a unique sound and instrumental color to any ensemble with his characteristic fills and vibrant, cutting-edge sound.

And-although it wasn't what what he was famous for-he could 'walk' with the best of them!

The first Thad-Jones-Mel Lewis Jazz Orch. recordings, the Andrew Hill Blue Note sessions and the Oliver Nelson
"More Blues And The Abstract Truth" are just a few of my 'desert island' jazz records of which Davis played a major part.

On Hill's Blue Note debut album as leader, "Black Fire", there is a wonderful duet between Joe Henderson and RD (playing arco) on the track titled "McNeil Island".

Note to blooper: Is RD still active as a player? Any recent recordings?

1994-5 RICHARD DAVIS REMINISCES (Sympatico)
1998 TOTAL PACKAGE w/ the Richard Davis Quartet (Terrones)
2001 THE BASSIST: Homage to Diversity Richard Davis w/ John Hicks (Palmetto)

Richard founded the Richard Davis Foundation for Young Bassists, a non-profit, tax exempt
org. He also is heavily into a group focused on the eradication of racism. On the 1994-5
CD, the notes are extensive and interesting.

Blooper

[frankpop1]

I understand your distinction regarding great improvisors. IMO Bob fits that catagory. I enjoy his lyrical lines, phrasing, beautiful sound - basically the whole package while understanding that this is a highly subjective area we're talking about.>>
i agree bob is great. i am making no opinion on his arco playing since im not that familiar with it, but i suppose it's very strong. after an amg check, i couldnt find that kellaway recording and i dont think that was bob.


And I'm trying to figure out your somewhat dismissive remark regarding the SoCal jazz scene. Clearly San Diego's scene can't compare with that of L.A.'s, (in terms of *quantity*) but are you suggesting that there is nothing happening in either city?>>it was tongue in cheek remark, altho when i lived there or was making frequent visits, it was not too impressive considering ...tho now it's been a few yrs so i will withdraw my opinion, but im a smidgeon skeptical and apathetic.

[James Lee]

Gotcha, frankpop1. I guess I've grown used to a defensive posture with regard the local scene, and could have read a "wink" into your post!

[claude]

Stange that as I started reading this thread Kent Kessler went into an arco solo on the Vandermark 5 CD that I was listening to.

I have no knowledge with which to evaluate the technique, but I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed the solo so I will put in a vote for Kent Kessler who I haven't seen mentioned here yet.