He and She

[Mike Schwartz]

I copied and pasted this review from a British newspaper online. It's the minority view to be certain, yet quite close to my personal opinion regarding this CD. With 9 spoken word entries that just aren't making it as far as I'm concerned, that 'inspire' 13 instrumentals, this is a very disappointing presentation. "Some decent solos" does not carry the day. A spark or a nice moment from time to time does not rescue this project.

Wynton Marsalis: "He and She" (Blue Note)
Marsalis's latest opus is, sadly, one of his duller outings. It tells the story of a relationship in words and music, but never really comes off. That's in part because the poetry Marsalis has written and insists on reading to interlink the tracks is pretty dire, and partly because the themes are somehow lacking in the vibrancy of his best originals. That said, when he gets into his stride on The Sun and the Moon and The Razor Rim, he delivers some decent solos. Overall, though, He and She is hobbled by a suffocating air of self-importance. AV

[Mike Schwartz]

oops...that's "He and She"
Have e-mailed to have the thread title spelling changed.

Having seen the the former boy wonder of jazz, now in his late 40's, when he first came to NY, many including myself thought the sky was the limit.

Unfortunately for the most part it's turned out to be more like "the sky is falling"

A great pitch man, there's little fire remaining in his trumpet playing, having to rely in gimmicks galore to cover weakening chops. It's a shame really, but the demands on a front line trumpeter are huge, and this thing happens from time to time.

The most annoying thing about what Wynton has become, is his bloated sense of self-importance mentioned in the review above. It shackles every small group he leads, taking all but the slightest hints of the true personalities and abilities of the other band members, since they are required to deliver the leader's grand concepts at the expense of the jazz experience, which he's lectured the world on ad nauseam, yet frequently fails to deliver.

[JamesH]

Hard to take you seriously on this one Mike. I'm sure you want a fight, no question about that, but why not get into one with a little ammo.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Hard to take you seriously on this one Mike. I'm sure you want a fight, no question about that, but why not get into one with a little ammo.

Agreed. It's really weak.

Cheers,

Rob

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Hard to take you seriously on this one Mike. I'm sure you want a fight, no question about that, but why not get into one with a little ammo.

Why is it that everyone who doesn't share your view of Wynton must somehow be disparaged? Who says Mike "wants a fight?" I've not heard the record, and probably won't, so I can't comment on its merits (or lack thereof), but there's isn't a musician alive who doesn't have detractors. Your biases have become clear over the years here and nobody really calls you on it, so why not give others the benefit of the doubt?

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Hard to take you seriously on this one Mike. I'm sure you want a fight, no question about that, but why not get into one with a little ammo.

Quite the contrary...
You are wrong.

Besides, Wynton came up on the Jarrett Trio thread repeatedly. I suggested that perhaps Rob and you, who find He & She excellent put up a review.

Rob came back with typically juvenile responses and name calling, but said he's not into putting up reviews..


I don't know but can guess I gave a few years on you.
The fact that I saw the young promising Wynton become reduced to this type of stuff represents quite a downfall.

[Mike Schwartz]

James & Rob,

When you're both on the same thread, and have the same opinion which one of you is the ventriloquist and which one is the puppet, or do you take turns?

[Pete C]

Maybe they're members of the chorus from one of his choral works.

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Maybe they're members of the chorus from one of his choral works.

James H/post #3:
"Hard to take you seriously on this one Mike. I'm sure you want a fight, no question about that, but why not get into one with a little ammo."


Rob Damen/post #4:
"Agreed. It's really weak.



Cheers,

Rob "


I'm just sayin'.....

[Pete C]

Don't ya just hate it when somebody calls your point weak and then says "cheers"?

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Don't ya just hate it when somebody calls your point weak and then says "cheers"?

Or how about after a point is made about something the person is supposedly passionate about, coming up with no actual opinion of thier own followed by "cheers"

[Rob Damen]

I stand by my view ... weak.

And according to you, I already gave my opinion (along with many other favorable reviews) that you didn't agree with.

Come 'on, Mike. You just don't like him, he doesn't share your views on jazz and doesn't feel the need to bow or apologoize to you for it ... that's all there is to it. Trying to act like you've got some deeper standard beyond your snippy generalizations is foolish.

Cheers,

Rob

[Mike Schwartz]

OK

Evidently we agree, and I misundertood.
He and She is weak

[Rob Damen]

As I've always said, you have no choice but to resort to childishness because you're not capable of much else.

Cheers,

Rob

[Mike Schwartz]

That said from the name calling_est, most childish poster around, and when it comes to this musician, there's no scale to measure your *homerism*, so I'll deal with you the only way you might understand, since you either do not read what's posted before you respond, or there's a major comprehension problem You may be dealing with.

Either way I don't care.

How many posts have I done here over the years.....7500+?

Read this Dipshit:
I don't dislike Wynton out of hand as you constantly babble about as you fail to pay attention when this guy comes up around here

I saw him as a 19-20 year old at jams in NYC and liked him.
I saw him in small clubs when he was on The Jazz Messengers and liked him.
I've seen him numerous other times over the years and liked him.
I've enjoyed some of his recordings over the years.

Here's the hard part; let me know if this is too difficult OK?

There have been times when I've seen him that I didn't like him.
He has also released recordings that I did not like.
"He And She" is one of those.

I pasted an article, started a thread, and explained a few reasons why I don't like this CD. I didn't say I didn't like the guy.


See? That's not too hard is it?
Are you able to follow along?

[Tom Storer]

I haven't heard "He and She," but when I read about it, my first thought was, "Poetry, oh no." Not that I dislike poetry, far from it. But I am highly skeptical of poetry, especially poetry that "tells the story of a relationship," from someone who is not a poet. I recall seeing a performance of "Blood on the Fields" and wishing he had asked an actual writer to do the libretto instead of handling it himself.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

That said from the name calling_est, most childish poster around, and when it comes to this musician, there's no scale to measure your *homerism*, so I'll deal with you the only way you might understand, since you either do not read what's posted before you respond, or there's a major comprehension problem You may be dealing with.

Either way I don't care.

How many posts have I done here over the years.....7500+?

Read this Dipshit:
I don't dislike Wynton out of hand as you constantly babble about as you fail to pay attention when this guy comes up around here

I saw him as a 19-20 year old at jams in NYC and liked him.
I saw him in small clubs when he was on The Jazz Messengers and liked him.
I've seen him numerous other times over the years and liked him.
I've enjoyed some of his recordings over the years.

Here's the hard part; let me know if this is too difficult OK?

There have been times when I've seen him that I didn't like him.
He has also released recordings that I did not like.
"He And She" is one of those.

I pasted an article, started a thread, and explained a few reasons why I don't like this CD. I didn't say I didn't like the guy.


See? That's not too hard is it?
Are you able to follow along?

Don't recall many posts from you praising Wynton's works, but I recall many of your taunts and dismissals over the years. And isn't interesting that it took several days for you to throw out this "I like some of Wynton's works" flyer after several days of nothing more than taunts and insults. Conclusion: This "new" Mike is most likely bullshittin'.

Like I said, you can't stand him and just hearing his voice doing poetry just intensifies the feeling.

Cheers,

Rob

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

I haven't heard "He and She," but when I read about it, my first thought was, "Poetry, oh no." Not that I dislike poetry, far from it. But I am highly skeptical of poetry, especially poetry that "tells the story of a relationship," from someone who is not a poet. I recall seeing a performance of "Blood on the Fields" and wishing he had asked an actual writer to do the libretto instead of handling it himself.

I think the libretto on "Blood on the Fields" is quite good, actually, and the poetry on "He and She" more than makes the grade. I'm not an expert on poetry, but I didn't find myself cringing, either. But really, "He and She" is quite a different enterprise in both form and tone from "Blood on the Fields." In fact, they're nothing alike which testifies to how much ground Marsalis has covered over the years. But I recall you don't like programmatic music, so it probably doesn't make much of difference one way or the other.

Cheers,

Rob

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Don't recall many posts from you praising Wynton's works, but I recall many of your taunts and dismissals over the years. And isn't interesting that it took several days for you to throw out this "I like some of Wynton's works" flyer after several days of nothing more than taunts and insults. Conclusion: This "new" Mike is most likely bullshittin'.

Like I said, you can't stand him and just hearing his voice doing poetry just intensifies the feeling.

Cheers,

Rob

You are such a Wynton butt_boy, that I already regret mentioning his name around here and having any interaction with you.

What you utterly fail to fathom (which I understand to be beyond your current capacity) is that if & when WM does something I like, I would simply say so. The level of 'fandom' you have for the guy somehow blocks things like that from getting through.

Once you get to something I said based on my personal taste for a musician and a recent release as "bullshittin," followed by your Kreskin like appraisal that I " can't stand him and just hearing his voice doing poetry just intensifies the feeling" based upon absolutely nothing other than your vivid imagination, brings only one thought to mind.

On this issue and concerning anything about this musician over the years; magnified over your performance over "He And She", you are one fucked up, crazy MF

Good-bye

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

You are such a Wynton butt_boy, that I already regret mentioning his name around here and having any interaction with you.

What you utterly fail to fathom (which I understand to be beyond your current capacity) is that if & when WM does something I like, I would simply say so. The level of 'fandom' you have for the guy somehow blocks things like that from getting through.

Once you get to something I said based on my personal taste for a musician and a recent release as "bullshittin," followed by your Kreskin like appraisal that I " can't stand him and just hearing his voice doing poetry just intensifies the feeling" based upon absolutely nothing other than your vivid imagination, brings only one thought to mind.

On this issue and concerning anything about this musician over the years; magnified over your performance over "He And She", you are one fucked up, crazy MF

Good-bye

Well, then, show us a few posts where you praised some Wynton records!?!?! And not just one or two, mind you. "He and She" is terrible to you because you can't stand the guy, not because of its merits or lack thereof. You're doing little more than proving it with all of this.

Cheers,

Rob

[Steve Reynolds]

one would be hard pressed to find anyone other than James or Rob who have praised Wynton's records on this site

we have all so moved on from whatever he has been doing over the past many years

why is it that with all the brilliant jazz/improv lovers that have been part of this site over the past 10-12 years that there are really only 2 posters who are enthusiastic about Wynton's records


Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows

That's a pretty old record (albeit great). If you want to remain credible you have to use an album from this decade at least in your tag.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

one would be hard pressed to find anyone other than James or Rob who have praised Wynton's records on this site

we have all so moved on from whatever he has been doing over the past many years

why is it that with all the brilliant jazz/improv lovers that have been part of this site over the past 10-12 years that there are really only 2 posters who are enthusiastic about Wynton's records


Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows

There's been posters other than me and JamesH who have thought well of his recent records if you're willing to check the archives. What's more interesting is that most other musicians don't generate nearly as much heat. For an art form that's supposedly all about breaking boundaries, it's a little odd those musicians don't generate more irate debates than the supposedly conservative Marsalis. One could conclude they're not as groundbreaking as many claim them to be.

Cheers,

Rob

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Well, then, show us a few posts where you praised some Wynton records!?!?! And not just one or two, mind you. "He and She" is terrible to you because you can't stand the guy, not because of its merits or lack thereof. You're doing little more than proving it with all of this.

Cheers,

Rob

KreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskin

WTF? I gotta do all the work for you after 7888 posts, and you set the *rules* for how many WM projects which are an acceptable amount?

I dare ask the question:
Do you have any clue as to how absurd this is (on top of your other rants WM-wise)?

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

one would be hard pressed to find anyone other than James or Rob who have praised Wynton's records on this site

we have all so moved on from whatever he has been doing over the past many years

why is it that with all the brilliant jazz/improv lovers that have been part of this site over the past 10-12 years that there are really only 2 posters who are enthusiastic about Wynton's records


Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows

Steve,
This is not the case.

Among the many Wynton threads over the years, there was a kind of olive branch one (perhaps during the period you were away) where quite a few posters enjoyed WM recordings. Best I can recall, earlier projects took the most praise.

[jazzfiend]

Rob, it's quite true that Wynton hasn't done anything noteworthy in years.

On the other hand, keep an eye out for Reynold's forthcoming review of the great Marco Eneidi's "Final Disconnect Notice."

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

KreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskinKreskin

WTF? I gotta do all the work for you after 7888 posts, and you set the *rules* for how many WM projects which are an acceptable amount?

I dare ask the question:
Do you have any clue as to how absurd this is (on top of your other rants WM-wise)?

Show me the posts, skips.

Cheers,

Rob

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by jazzfiend

Rob, it's quite true that Wynton hasn't done anything noteworthy in years.

Really?!!?!?

I'd say quite the opposite is true.

I'm sure there's no way you can back this assertion up.

Cheers,

Rob

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

I haven't heard "He and She," but when I read about it, my first thought was, "Poetry, oh no." Not that I dislike poetry, far from it. But I am highly skeptical of poetry, especially poetry that "tells the story of a relationship," from someone who is not a poet. I recall seeing a performance of "Blood on the Fields" and wishing he had asked an actual writer to do the libretto instead of handling it himself.

Tom,

The poetry doesn't work for me, but the music is excellent. Sometimes I wish Mr. Marsalis would cool it with the poetry, rapping and country music singers and just play because when he's playing straight blues and swing based jazz there's nobody better in that genre.

Some are as good, but nobody is better.

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Show me the posts, skips.

Cheers,

Rob

Dipshit,
R-E-A-D-I-N-G
C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N