What is funk?

Deke · March-31st-2003, 10:11 AM

This one's carried forward from the Tower of Power forum pages (Since most people will agree that ToP are the living embodiment of funk) but what exactly is funk?

When I was at school a 'blue funk' was a case of panic initiated bottom burping (Not being too techinical am I?), and I believe I remember hearing the term 'Funky' used to describe a slightly whiffy atmosphere in an old black and white film, so I assume that 'funky' in musical terms means 'Doesn't stink', much as 'Ba-a-ad' means 'Terrific!', but when you pick up a 'funky' record or one labled 'File under Funk', what do you expect to get out of it?

Let's get the funny answers over and done with first.

Brain death. A communicable disease. Dirty hands. Pop music. Carry on...

bluenoter · March-31st-2003, 10:25 AM

Deke--We in the United States grew up with funk. I think it'll be tough to explain what it is. (I certainly can't.)

Pardon me if you know this, but non-jazz-related messages belong in the forum called the Alley, not here in Speak Out. (Funk as a topic is sort of a gray area, I suppose.)

Tanager · March-31st-2003, 10:30 AM

I am pretty sure that not *everyone* in the US grew up with Funk.

(I grew up in Washington, D.C., so I did grow up with it, however.)

Pete C · March-31st-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tanager
(I grew up in Washington, D.C., so I did grow up with it, however.)

Pete C · March-31st-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluenoter
Deke--Pardon me if you know this, but non-jazz-related messages belong in the forum called the Alley, not here in Speak Out. (Funk as a topic is sort of a gray area, I suppose.)

If eai belongs here, funk is a no-brainer...

Uli · March-31st-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete C
If eai belongs here, funk is a no-brainer...

omygod, we've been outed!

if lowercase belongs here, everything belongs here.

GoodSpeak · March-31st-2003, 12:51 PM

[heaviest of sighs]

graypencil · March-31st-2003, 01:31 PM

Just to actually address the question at hand ( as opposed to all the posturing and one liners so far ):

Musically , "funk" can refer to the groove, rhythmic conventions, the harmonic context ( lots of use of sevenths, blues scales, etc. ), and performance attitude .. some may be present , others not ..

Musically, obviously derived from 60s R&B , the first jazz hybrids of it included the "soul jazz " stuff of the same period ( Guys like Horace Silver, Bobby Timmons, early Joe Zawinul w/ Cannon etc. )

Later on, the rhythms got more complex ( lotsa 16th note patterns , Thumb pop bass contributed by Sly's Larry Graham, and the great drummers like Clyde Stubblefield , Bernard Purdie, et al ..) Jazzwise, this became prevalent in the styles of guys like BS&T, DReams, Stuff, Tom Scott, and most noticeably later Miles ..

Finally, it's my opinion that REAL funk must be played by actual humans ..sequenced machine stuff just doesn't make one do the booty thing, IMO ..

Al in NYC · March-31st-2003, 09:14 PM

The true meaning of the word "funk" is a stink, like an earthy smell )or an emotional depression). Applied to music that means its sound is evocotively earthy and elemental -- "low down" in more pejorative terms.

(Why do I feel like I'm explaining "red" or "happy"?)

"They call it the White House, but that's just a temporary condition..."

Ron Thorne · March-31st-2003, 11:43 PM

GS, I'm disappointed that your only response on this thread was your patented "heaviest of sighs". What? No glowing TOP reviews/recommendations, just for starters?

What is funk?

Well, it could be something powered via Oakland, ala TOP, or James Brown, The Allman Brothers or Whitesnake.

Different strokes ...

Tower of Power
Average White Band
Bootsy Collins
Parliament
Edgar Winter's White Trash
George Clinton and the P-Funk All-Stars
Chaka Khan and Rufus
EW&F

Those are a few of my favorite funksters, among many.

Tanager · April-1st-2003, 06:42 AM

Chuck Brown and the Soul Searchers, baby.

Grandmaster Flash.

Billy Preston, Earth, Wind, & Fire, Dennis Coffey, Fishbone.

Con Funk Shun, the Commodores,

The Gap Band, Cameo, Graham Central Station...

SLY!

Funkadelic, for my $$$ the best of the Clinton funkiverse.

Plus everyone Ron said...and then some.

There's really a whole mess of truly skank-nasty funk out there, thank God.

Gary Sisco · April-1st-2003, 08:35 AM

Two words: James Brown

Pete C · April-1st-2003, 08:41 AM

A lot of those old bands are very active on the festival circuit, hence in recent years I've seen Tower of Power, George Clinton & P-Funk, ConFunkShun, EW&F, and two rival versions of War.

Dr Dave · April-1st-2003, 10:18 AM

OOhh...what is Funk? Funk is the blues in super-syncopated form. Funk is dance music built on an ostinato bass with machine-like (but not mechanical!) drum support. Funk is an essential ingredient of jazz, in my opinion. People who dissed Johua Redman's "Freedom in the Groove" didn' have enough Funk in their regular diets. Funk supplements may be necessary, beginning with several heaping tablespoons of Grant Green's "Carryin' On" and perhaps a steaming hot infusion of Lee Morgan's "The Sidewinder." For truly serious cases, as Gary has pointed out, long rehabilitation sessions with mid-'60s James Brown may be required.

Sergio Zamora · April-1st-2003, 11:14 AM

It's name is the one. Some people call it the funk.

Deke · April-2nd-2003, 04:19 PM

Wow. I'm a little surprised in a way to find that the concensus is pretty similar to the views expressed on the Tower of Power site, except they don't know quite so many jazz characters.

The real blocker to me is always the same one. James Brown. He has always been rock'n'roll to me. And getting Clyde to write down some of Tony Allen's drum patterns and then replay them over and over and ov... you get the drift, seems to me to be the pre-digital version of looping.

Can't remember who said what, but whomsoever declared that machines can't play funk, I am with you man!!! When machines can think, they can think about playing funk, until then it will remain a purely human pastime

Finally, on the subject of whether I should have posted this here, I did wonder, but then I thought Brecker Brothers, Miles Davis, Tower of Power, Lee Ritenour... Tell you what. Maybe we should do a thread on 'What is jazz?'

Incidentally, the earliest funky record I've heard is a 78 that my father had. It was recorded in 1938 if my memory serves me well. 'Sun Dance' by Chief Os-ko-mon. Can anyone beat that?

Tanager · April-2nd-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deke
The real blocker to me is always the same one. James Brown. He has always been rock'n'roll to me.

By this I take it you mean that James is not a Minister of Funk of the first order?

Say three Cold Sweats in penance, and by all means,

GIT UP OFFA THAT THING!

Jason Bivins · April-2nd-2003, 05:58 PM

Chuck Brown, baby! "Mastercard, Visa, American Express. I ain't got nothing' 'gainst no credit cards, but the cash is the best."

My personal pantheon: JB, Funkadelic/Parliament (in that order), Sly, Curtis Mayfield. Many others, but those are the big four.

The Head Maggot Overlord never directly responded to the question "what is funk?" but Funkadelic did respond to - and named a song - "What is Soul?"

I quote:

"Soul is a ham hock in your cornflakes. Soul is chitlins foo yung."

graypencil · April-2nd-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deke
Wow. I'm a little surprised in a way to find that the concensus is pretty similar to the views expressed on the Tower of Power site, except they don't know quite so many jazz characters.

The real blocker to me is always the same one. James Brown. He has always been rock'n'roll to me. And getting Clyde to write down some of Tony Allen's drum patterns and then replay them over and over and ov... you get the drift, seems to me to be the pre-digital version of looping.

Can't remember who said what, but whomsoever declared that machines can't play funk, I am with you man!!! When machines can think, they can think about playing funk, until then it will remain a purely human pastime

Deke: the machine observation would be me ..after some 30 years of working in studios with both human ..AND bloody machines , there's no doubt whick I prefer ..

BTW: dont forget **STUFF** ..in yer list of all time champeen muthafunkers

Tanager · April-2nd-2003, 07:19 PM

Since Jason had the taste to include Washington, D.C.'s own Chuck Brown (and the Soul Searchers), let's also include:

Trouble Funk
Experience Unlimited

Jason Bivins · April-2nd-2003, 10:51 PM

Tanager, did you ever hear "Go-go Drug Free"? An incredible single - from '87 or '88 - pairing EU with Mr. Mayor, Marion Barry. Mayor Barry actually rapped on this one, and I believe his rhyme went: "I'm Marion Barry and this is my rap. Don't want no drugs in the nation's cap." Fucking epic.

Jim Dye · April-2nd-2003, 11:03 PM

Don't know about funk, but Funkadelic had a song on an early record called 'What Is Soul?'

Went a little something like this...

"What is Soul?

I Don't Know.

Soul is the ring around your bathtub....

What Is Soul?

I Don't Know.

Soul is Chitlins Foo Yung."

etc...

Gary Sisco · April-3rd-2003, 08:18 AM

Famous Flames or JBs, take your pick. The one is precision funk personified, the other greasy funk beyond compare. Either way, James Brown, baybeez.

Tanager · April-3rd-2003, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Dye
Don't know about funk, but Funkadelic had a song on an early record called 'What Is Soul?'

It's off their first album, a fine record.

GoodSpeak · April-3rd-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Thorne
GS, I'm disappointed that your only response on this thread was your patented "heaviest of sighs". What? No glowing TOP reviews/recommendations, just for starters?

What is funk?

Well, it could be something powered via Oakland, ala TOP, or James Brown, The Allman Brothers or Whitesnake.

Different strokes ...

Tower of Power
Average White Band
Bootsy Collins
Parliament
Edgar Winter's White Trash
George Clinton and the P-Funk All-Stars
Chaka Khan and Rufus
EW&F

Those are a few of my favorite funksters, among many.

Sometimes it's just better to sit back and let others speak for you ;-)

I concur.

bump de bump de bump

GoodSpeak · April-3rd-2003, 01:40 PM

I would suggest that if you can pick up a copy of AIN'T NO 'BOUT-A-DOUBT IT by Graham Central Station [Larry Graham's band], do it.

It's an absolute clinic on Funk.

I would add:

Brothers Johnson
Rick James
Ohio Players
Billy Cobham
Sly and the Family Stone
Kool and the Gang
Cold Blood
Curtis Mayfield
Isley Brothers

[But there ain't nothin' beats a goodly dose of old school Funk on EAST BAY GREASE...Tower of Power, bay-bee ;-) ]

Get up for the down stroke...

jazzy mary · April-3rd-2003, 01:53 PM

Isley Bros. are R & B.

GoodSpeak · April-3rd-2003, 02:02 PM

Au contrere.

THE HEAT IS ON by The Isleys is classic funk.

jazzy mary · April-3rd-2003, 02:10 PM

Um,um. The Isley Bros. are R&B rooted w/ perhaps funk overtones sometimes. I'd have to say Cutis Mayfield is R & B too. R&B came first, then funk.

GoodSpeak · April-3rd-2003, 02:36 PM

SUPER FLY by Curtis Mayfield

Hey, it's all good ;-)