Late period Bill Evans - Who digs it?

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 04:33 PM

Certain of the knee jerk criticism school consider that the more urgent and upbeat style that typifies Bill Evans work from the late 70's is evidence of a definitive decline, and owing in no small part to presentiments of doom due to his crippling drug addiction, and consequent mental and physical detioration.
I want to go on the record and call this bullshit viewpoint what it is - bullshit.
The music on the box sets Consecration, The Last Waltz and Turn Out The Stars is evidence of divinity and makes Keith Jarrett's Trio work look, in perspective, very trivial indeed (but only by comparison, i still rate him quite highly, and listen to his stuff reasonably regularly, but Mein Grusse Gott! what a disparity!)
The music on these discs is sublime, full of the questing musical spirit, and stands at the very apex of what it is possible to create in the piano trio format. Anyone who disagrees can meet me at the back of the corner drugstore with weapons of your choice.

clinthopson · August-18th-2009, 04:38 PM

I think I have every thing that Bill Evans ever recorded under his own name or with others and the complete Turn Out The Stars is probably my favorite. The four versions of Nardis are phenomenal.

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 04:45 PM

Hell yeah! The musical imagination he was showing at this point. And each take on these tunes, and i particularly notice it on Consecration and The Last Waltz where the sets are virtually the same, is that he has a fresh take each time, doesn't resort to licks, or rely on turnaround phrases to get him out of a bottleneck. Oh, to have been at one, just one, of those gigs. Let along go alone every day of the week...

Pete C · August-18th-2009, 04:48 PM

It was just a change in orientation. My two theories are the change from heroin to cocaine, and the more propulsive drumming of Joe LaBarbera (occasional gigs with Philly Joe notwithstanding). I think what's interesting is that You Must Believe in Spring is perhaps the most mellow, and then pretty soon thereafter he gets into the harder swinging stuff.

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

It was just a change in orientation. My two theories are the change from heroin to cocaine, and the more propulsive drumming of Joe LaBarbera (occasional gigs with Philly Joe notwithstanding). I think what's interesting is that You Must Believe in Spring is perhaps the most mellow, and then pretty soon thereafter he gets into the harder swinging stuff.

Absolutely Mr. C! I guess in part that i was trying to get in a hackneyed dig at those knee jerk jazz critics who fix perspectives in aspic, and manage to put people off checking out wonderful stuff and y'know, make up their own minds about it.
Don't even get me started on revisionism or Wyntonism!

Pete C · August-18th-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baksheesh

those knee jerk jazz critics who fix perspectives in aspic,

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 04:58 PM

You being such a renowned gastronome and all Mr. C - ever tried that favourite of yore - lark's tongues in aspic?

clinthopson · August-18th-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

It was just a change in orientation. My two theories are the change from heroin to cocaine, and the more propulsive drumming of Joe LaBarbera (occasional gigs with Philly Joe notwithstanding). I think what's interesting is that You Must Believe in Spring is perhaps the most mellow, and then pretty soon thereafter he gets into the harder swinging stuff.

I had a chance to have a long visit with Joe LaBarbera a few years back. On thing I asked him was what it was like playing those final sets with Bill Evans. He said that every night he was excited about that would happen. Every set was incredible.

I didn't ask about the drugs. Why bother?

I am reminded that Stan Getz' final recordings were among his best.

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clinthopson

I had a chance to have a long visit with Joe LaBarbera a few years back. On thing I asked him was what it was like playing those final sets with Bill Evans. He said that every night he was excited about that would happen. Every set was incredible.

I didn't ask about the drugs. Why bother?

I am reminded that Stan Getz' final recordings were among his best.

Wow! Great story Clint, and point well made. However, I have a minor quibble - Stan was getting old and doddery whereas Bill was still a youngish middle aged and would certainly have gone on to many more marvellous things.

clinthopson · August-18th-2009, 05:17 PM

Check out People Time, it's a beauty.

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Check out People Time, it's a beauty.

Most certainly if i can find it. It's Bill i'm assuming 'cos i've never heard of it before i must confess

Pete C · August-18th-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Check out People Time, it's a beauty.

Clint, I have a bunch of unreleased tracks from the same sessions. Send me your address and I'll get them to you.

Robert de St. Loup · August-18th-2009, 05:40 PM

Here's another beautiful end-of-life perfomance:

Pete C · August-18th-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baksheesh

Hey, about the 'sheesh? Does he deserve a look in? The 'sheesh would be only to willing to reciprocate if there's anything Mr. C would be interested in. One of the aforementioned box sets perhaps?

I have all the box sets, and I wouldn't accept commercially available stuff in general. ROIOs, especially of dead artists I have no problem with.

PM me your email--I'll try to dispatch a zip folder of mp3s or flacs or whatever I have by yousendit. In fact, Clint, email would be better as long as I'm going that route.

No more requests please! I got it on dime a dozen if anybody is looking, but it's no longer on my original drive, so someone else would have to reseed it.

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 05:46 PM

I applaud your principles Mr. C...

LennyH · August-18th-2009, 06:00 PM

Putting "Turn Out The Stars" on the wish list.

I've been holding out so far and have never owned an iPod. I think I might take the plunge and buy these things on mp3. I like having the CD jackets but sick and tired of fumbling with the CDs.

Do you buy the MP3s, Pete, or convert them from CD?

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyH

Putting "Turn Out The Stars" on the wish list.

I've been holding out so far and have never owned an iPod. I think I might take the plunge and buy these things on mp3. I like having the CD jackets but sick and tired of fumbling with the CDs.

Do you buy the MP3s, Pete, or convert them from CD?

I recommend wholeheartedly converting from CD as you can set the sample rate. Often, and often, when buying mp3s you get sold a pup i.e. 128kbps or even lower. When converting your CDs make sure and set the rate to 320 or even lossless, if you can afford the space.

Pete C · August-18th-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyH

Do you buy the MP3s, Pete, or convert them from CD?

Both. The Evans Fantasy boxes I got from emusic, the other one (is it on Warner?) I have on CD only. Now I only buy music on MP3 when possible. I've converted all of my unissued concerts to MP3 but only a subset of my CD collection.

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 06:37 PM

What about the bit rate issue Mr. C?

LennyH · August-18th-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baksheesh

I recommend wholeheartedly converting from CD as you can set the sample rate. Often, and often, when buying mp3s you get sold a pup i.e. 128kbps or even lower. When converting your CDs make sure and set the rate to 320 or even lossless, if you can afford the space.

Good point. I don't see a sample rate at Amazon, where I looked for this originally. Will have to look into this. They do have the MP3 cheaper than the CD, which is cool.

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyH

Good point. I don't see a sample rate at Amazon, where I looked for this originally. Will have to look into this. They do have the MP3 cheaper than the CD, which is cool.

Caveat emptor Lenny m'man, caveat emptor

LennyH · August-18th-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baksheesh

Caveat emptor Lenny m'man, caveat emptor

Is that some kind of NY expression?

stereojack · August-18th-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baksheesh

Stan was getting old and doddery whereas Bill was still a youngish middle aged and would certainly have gone on to many more marvellous things.

Stan was 64 when he died, and had been battling cancer for at least four years. Yet, during that period he recorded "Anniversary", "Serenity", and "People Time", three of his most brilliant albums. I saw Stan a few months before he died, a few weeks before "People Time", and he was as great as ever. Old and doddery indeed!

baksheesh · August-18th-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stereojack

Stan was 64 when he died, and had been battling cancer for at least four years. Yet, during that period he recorded "Anniversary", "Serenity", and "People Time", three of his most brilliant albums. I saw Stan a few months before he died, a few weeks before "People Time", and he was as great as ever. Old and doddery indeed!

Apologies! I hereby utter a full retraction of the grotesquely unfair and innaccurate 'old and doddery' characterisation, pleading insufficient possession of the facts.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

Ron Thorne · August-18th-2009, 11:34 PM

Me!

Pete C · August-19th-2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baksheesh

Most certainly if i can find it. It's Bill i'm assuming 'cos i've never heard of it before i must confess

No--People Time is the Getz & Kenny Barron duos.

John L · August-19th-2009, 07:09 AM

Count me among late period Bill Evans fans. In fact, my favorite period for Bill Evans is 1974-1980. I would not give up The Last Waltz box set before the 61 Vanguard. My favorite Bill Evans album might be "You Must Believe in Spring."

I don't listen to critics. I listen to my heart. Some of Evans' earlier stuff, as brilliant as it is, can leave me a bit cold. The warmth comes through in his later output (IMO).

baksheesh · August-19th-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John L

Count me among late period Bill Evans fans. In fact, my favorite period for Bill Evans is 1974-1980. I would not give up The Last Waltz box set before the 61 Vanguard. My favorite Bill Evans album might be "You Must Believe in Spring."

I don't listen to critics. I listen to my heart. Some of Evans' earlier stuff, as brilliant as it is, can leave me a bit cold. The warmth comes through in his later output (IMO).

I agree, with certain qualifications though. The fire and intensity with which Bill plays in the later period can be more involving whilst the early stuff tends to be more contemplative and conducive of reflection, like classical music or like that. Whatever the reasons for this passion (i.e. choice of narcotic) the results are 'a good thing'
However, i believe 1961 The Village Vanguard owes a lot of its chaste and limpid style to a practical issue. Scott played a slack tuned bass, in order to get his tone, and as double bass wasn't amplified in those days the other guys had to play at a lower volume.
As for 'don't listen to critics', allow me to posit a scenario; a) a box set costs quite a lot of money b) you've no other way to find out what the music contained therein is like (the norm, with some exceptions, say if a mate already has it, or there's those little 30 second snippets on the website, though how much can you really tell from those, i ask you?), so you have to take someone on faith.
We all listen to our hearts, it's just that feeding them can be more than a tad awkward if you don't have access to the ready cash required to blithely go around snapping up box sets willy nilly

CraigP · August-19th-2009, 08:38 AM

So there's been no single disc culled from either The Last Waltz or Turn Out the Stars?

baksheesh · August-19th-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigP

So there's been no single disc culled from either The Last Waltz or Turn Out the Stars?

Not so far as i know, but the Consecration box was drawn from the same gigs as The Last Waltz - TLW being the second sets and Consecration being the first, and there was a two disc set condensed from it.