Soul Jazz

Dr Dave · October-2nd-2003, 10:52 PM

It's not cool, is it? Too commercial. Tuff. I love it.

Grant Green -- Carryin' On, Green Is Beautiful, etc.
Lou Donaldson -- Alligator Boogaloo
Sonny Stitt -- Soul Classics
Lee Morgan -- The Sidewinder
Les McCann/Eddie Harris -- Swiss Movement
Charles Earland -- Black Talk!

There's so much more. Isn't there?

In fact, let me ask the question: What do you think happened when the Jazz Crusaders became The Crusaders? Is Larry Carlton an okay guy or is he a Jesus Freak? Are the two mutually exclusive?

Is Joe Sample:

a. A genius.
b. A genius who lost his way.
c. A journeyman player who knew a good thing when he saw it.
d. Rich enough not to have to work anymore.
e. Defiant.
f. Apologetic.
g. Doing the best he can with the tools he has.

Pete C · October-2nd-2003, 11:08 PM

I've recently been digging the Don Patterson stuff with Booker Ervin.

Uli · October-2nd-2003, 11:14 PM

Gene Ammons, baby!

Sergio Zamora · October-3rd-2003, 12:10 AM

Funky mama, baby!

Noj · October-3rd-2003, 12:37 AM

I definitely love old soul and old funk, and I love jazz covers of old soul tunes and funky jazz. Electric pianos, wah wah pedals, fatback drumming, and funk-drenched electric bass lines...I like it as much as acoustic. I like it latinfunk style too, bring on the congas, timbales, and crazy chatter and let's get the ladies shaking their thangs.

Blue Note RARE GROOVE series
CTI early 70s
Prestige LEGENDS OF ACID JAZZ series

The JB's--no one played with more funky soul than the band behind JB.
Parliament/Funkadelic--I'm playing "Funkentelechy" right now.

a. genius. I'm a big fan of early Crusaders, so I definitely dig Joe Sample. I even dig some of Joe's solo stuff. EDIT--I tend to not follow jazz artists into the 80s. I avoid the 80s in terms of jazz for the most part.

Pete C · October-3rd-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noj
I definitely love old soul and old funk, and I love jazz covers of old soul tunes and funky jazz. Electric pianos, wah wah pedals, fatback drumming, and funk-drenched electric bass lines...I like it as much as acoustic. I like it latinfunk style too, bring on the congas, timbales, and crazy chatter and let's get the ladies shaking their thangs.

Blue Note RARE GROOVE series
CTI early 70s
Prestige LEGENDS OF ACID JAZZ series

The JB's--no one played with more funky soul than the band behind JB.
Parliament/Funkadelic--I'm playing "Funkentelechy" right now.

a. genius. I'm a big fan of early Crusaders, so I definitely dig Joe Sample. I even dig some of Joe's solo stuff. EDIT--I tend to not follow jazz artists into the 80s. I avoid the 80s in terms of jazz for the most part.

Noj, I think you'd really like Ed Motta's "Dwitza," a recent Brazilian take on that whole milieu.

Noj · October-3rd-2003, 10:22 AM

I'll have to check that out Pete C, thanks. I haven't heard of him.

Pete C · October-3rd-2003, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noj
I'll have to check that out Pete C, thanks. I haven't heard of him.

You can listen to audio samples here.

Derek Taylor · October-3rd-2003, 10:46 AM

I’m an inveterate fan of soul/funk/B-3/whatever-you-want-to-call it jazz. BN is a great source for this sort of thing, but the depth of the Prestige reservoir really can’t be beat IMHO. I mean you’ve got Jug, Rusty Bryant, Charles Kynard, Stitt, Melvin Sparks, etc., etc., etc. The LEGENDS OF ACID JAZZ series suffers from atrocious cover art, but the music underneath the wrapper is often snugly in this vein & beautifully so- & almost all of it with Rudy at the controls. Two recent Fantasy releases: Johnny “Hammond” Smith’s GOOD ‘NUFF (which combines HAMMOND COOKS WITH GATOR and THE STINGER) and Red Holloway’s COAST TO COAST are very tasty examples of this sort of stuff. Jug’s FINE & MELLOW is lots of fun too, but in a slightly more retro commerical mode. Just as perfect for parties as it is for relaxing by your lonesome.

Pete, seconds on your rec of the Ervin/Patterson sides (funny how they’re spread out over a few discs).

Pete C · October-3rd-2003, 03:28 PM

I highly recommend Charles Earland's "Cookin' with the Mighty Burner" on High Note. It's one of his last albums, and it features Eric Alexander (whom I don't usually like, but he sounds great in this setting) and Jim Rotondi, as well as Melvin Sparks, whom I consider a really underrated guitarist. There's a version of "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" that is reminiscent of his classic "More Today Than Yesterday." It's available on Emusic.

Douglas · October-3rd-2003, 04:45 PM

The Junior Mance Trio at the Village Vanguard - first time I came across the term soul jazz - sold on it ever since.

Chris D · October-3rd-2003, 04:55 PM

I'm a big fan, especially of the oft-derided "commercial lead track" of many of the '60s Blue Notes that followed "The Sidewinder." "A Caddy for Daddy"? Hell, yeah.

I'm particularly fond of the Donald-Byrd-Sonny Red collaborations like "Mustang," "Blackjack" and "Slow Drag." True, only a track or two on each qualifies as "soul jazz," but this kind of hard bop-meets-boogaloo is red meat for me.

RainyDay · October-3rd-2003, 04:59 PM

I thought "soul jazz" was hard bop. I'm afraid to ask for the difference because someone will probably tell me.

As you know, I have issues with labels.

stonemonkts · October-3rd-2003, 05:43 PM

When I think of hard bop, I think of Clifford Brown, Art Blakey, J.J. Johnson, Miles after birth of cool and prior to KOB, Horace Silver...and many others.

When I think of soul jazz, I think of Jimmy Smith, Wes Montgomery (with Jimmy Smith), Lou Donaldson in the 60's and 70's, Stanley Turrentine, and much of what Creed Taylor produced in the 70's.

I could be wrong, but that's what pops into my mind when I see those terms, FWIW.

RainyDay · October-3rd-2003, 05:50 PM

I'm gonna dig up that hard bop thread 'cos I thought a lot of the same names popped up in both. I'm sure musicians can play more than one style but it is an interesting coincidence.

Pete C · October-3rd-2003, 05:59 PM

Rainy, there's definitely lots of overlap, though much soul jazz might be as much swing as bop-oriented at heart. I think to some degree soul jazz artists would be ones who toured the "chitlin' circuit" (though not necessarily exclusive of the mainstream jazz clubs). Certainly the organ groups fit the bill. Willis "Gator" Jackson might be a good example of a "soul jazz" artist who isn't really thought of as hard bop, per se. I don't think Les McCann's music is really considered hard bop either, even though there's a lot of similar gospel influence as in Horace Silver's music. As always, the terms and boundaries are fuzzy.

Dibble · October-3rd-2003, 09:12 PM

I like fuzzy boundaries!!..Thats how I ended up here..Liking Charles Earland..Coming To You Live..and Jill Scott..how would you label her?

Brand New Heavies??

Young Disciples?? - Apparently Nothing??

Im thoroughly confused with labels

Liking Jeff Lorber Fusion, Yellowjackets, Shunzo Ohno and Ray Baretto too..what would you call this type of music?? Or are they all different??

Debbie

Editing to say..Parliament/Funkadelic!! Went to see G Clinton et al in Manchester UK when I was about 16..went home after 5 hours of rollerskating, space ships and Sir Nose D'VoidO'Funk to comply with my curfew!! FANTASTIC

Dr Dave · October-3rd-2003, 10:32 PM

Well, take Lou Donaldson for example. He recorded hard bop, and he recorded soul jazz. The most important difference between hard bop and soul jazz is, in my opinion, that you could make a living playing soul jazz. Sonny Stitt did it. Grant Green did it. Cannonball Adderley was one of the few who could have it both ways. As far as I know, "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy" was the last jazz tune to make the Top Forty.

Pete C · October-4th-2003, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Dave
The most important difference between hard bop and soul jazz is, in my opinion, that you could make a living playing soul jazz.

Blakey didn't make a living?

Gary Sisco · October-4th-2003, 10:30 AM

How many Blakeys were there?

Soul jazz guys are still making a living on the black-club circuit. It's been the real popular music style, far's jazz goes, since the 50s, and has its own infrastructure for gigs and record sales, etc., for cats like Houston Person, to use one example. Even Don Pullen made a living in part by playing organ group gigs uptown. (He can be heard doing his B3 thing on Maceo Parker's "Roots Revisited" CD that was very popular, early 90s.)

Pete C · October-4th-2003, 10:47 AM

A lot of it is a continuation of the spirit of early R&B/jazz fusions like Louis Jordan, Bill Doggett, Earl Bostic, & Big Jay McNeeley.

Dr Dave · October-4th-2003, 11:17 AM

Don Pullen? Playing a B-3? This I gotta hear.

Gary Sisco · October-5th-2003, 08:28 AM

Pullen also plays B3 on David Murray's "Shakill's Warrior," of course.

VIBEr · October-6th-2003, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Dave
Don Pullen? Playing a B-3? This I gotta hear.

Pullen's organ playing was so well-respected that he actually placed 2nd behind Jimmy Smith and ahead of Joey DeF. in the Downbeat Critics/Readers' polls of the early nineties. I suspect that Pullen didn't really like playing the organ all that much since he never recorded on the B3 as a leader despite the accolades he received as a player. I was blown away with his playing on Shakill's Warrior.

Uli · October-6th-2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VIBEr
I suspect that Pullen didn't really like playing the organ all that much since he never recorded on the B3 as a leader despite the accolades he received as a player. I was blown away with his playing on Shakill's Warrior.

that's not completely true. On the Pullen/Don Moye record "Milano Strut" he is recorded on both organ & piano.

SinginSumo · October-6th-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RainyDay
I thought "soul jazz" was hard bop. I'm afraid to ask for the difference because someone will probably tell me.

As you know, I have issues with labels.

Rainy D - It's ALL sweet!

Bill Barton · October-6th-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Uli
...On the Pullen/Don Moye record "Milano Strut" he is recorded on both organ & piano.

Yes, this is a fine recording indeed. And Pullen played lots of B3 (or "something approximating a real organ" to paraphrase one of the liners) on a number of Kip Hanrahan's genre-defying projects. Soul jazz? Probably not. But it surely is soul-full.

shrugs · October-6th-2003, 05:14 PM

Pullen also played organ on Jack Walrath's Serious Hang. Not so great sonics by RVG but it has some good playing by all involved.

October-6th-2003, 05:57 PM

Start a Soul Jazz thread at Jazz Corner and, before you know it, you will be talking Don Pullen.

shrugs · October-6th-2003, 06:37 PM

Pullen had heaps of soul.