arnold & the GOP, where's the outrage?

[frankpop1]

arnold schwarzennegger is married and molesting women, 'playfully'. jmj, dolan and other republicans have went on ludicrous rampages concerning clinton's immorality.. here comes arnold and you dont hear a peep.


the hypocriscy screams.

[jesus marion joseph]

A) I am not a Republican.

B) I wouldn't vote for Arnold, either, but since he's not an officeholder, he can't be impeached, can he?

[jesus marion joseph]

C) I'm much less likely to be concerned about who is governor of California than who is preident of the US, as I have no ties to California. If they want Arnold, they can elect him.

[Uli]

Originally posted by jesus marion joseph
A) I am not a Republican.

Wow. You don't sound like a fraudulent peacenik to me.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally posted by Uli
Wow. You don't sound like a fraudulent peacenik to me.

That's where the "fraudulent" part comes in.

[Gary Sisco]

jmj -- I guess you've forgotten the last bad actor elected governor of CA who later became president? Thankfully the Obersturmfuhrer is constitutionally prohibited, in this case. But we might also remember that CA is larger than many nation-states in the world -- population, size and size of economywise -- and having yet another moron in charge there will cost us all in the end, regardless of state. It'll also add to what has already become the ludicrous state of American politics, for which the rest of the world is more than justly disturbed.

[Tom Storer]

I don't see why Democrats should have a monopoly on fraudulent peacenik-ness.

"Fraudulent Peaceniks for Schwarzenegger."

"Fraudulent Peaceniks for Bush."

It has a certain ring to it, you must admit.

"Committee to Elect a Fraudulent Peacenik."

Someone has got to get some T-shirts made. Monte, what's your T-shirt size?

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
jmj -- I guess you've forgotten the last bad actor elected governor of CA who later became president? Thankfully the Obersturmfuhrer is constitutionally prohibited, in this case. But we might also remember that CA is larger than many nation-states in the world -- population, size and size of economywise -- and having yet another moron in charge there will cost us all in the end, regardless of state. It'll also add to what has already become the ludicrous state of American politics, for which the rest of the world is more than justly disturbed.

I think the rest fo the world expects wacky stuff from California, frankly, but you are probably right about the economic repercussions in the event of a collapse of the Cali economy. I heard somewhere recently that if California were a nation, its economy would be the fifth largest in the world. That's big.

[Gary Sisco]

Let's also try to keep in mind its enormous number of electoral college votes as well, if we might. Having those in whacky (never mind wack) hands isn't encouraging, either.

[Gordon B]

JMJ, Brian was right about Susan Estrich. See for yourself.

COMMENTARY
A Deplorable October Surprise


COMMENTARY

By Susan Estrich, Susan Estrich, a professor of law and political science at USC, is the author of "Sex and Power" (Riverside Press, 2001). She was national campaign manager for Democratic presidential nominee Michael

So this is the October surprise? The Los Angeles Times headline that Arnold Schwarzenegger groped and humiliated women?

None of the six women interviewed by The Times filed legal charges. Four of the six were quoted anonymously. Of the two who were named, one, a British television hostess, had told her story to Premiere magazine years ago, and it has been widely known and largely ignored. The other recounts an alleged incident of fondling at Gold's Gym nearly 30 years ago.

The anonymous incidents occurred on movie sets and consist of touching a woman's breast in the elevator, whispering vulgarities and pulling a woman onto his lap. Though emphasizing that not everything in the stories was accurate, the candidate responded Thursday with an apology: "Yes, it is true that I was on rowdy movie sets and I have done things that were not right which I thought then was playful, but now I recognize that I offended people." And he pledged to treat women with respect if elected.

As a professor of sex discrimination law for two decades and an expert on sexual harassment, I certainly don't condone the unwanted touching of women that was apparently involved here. But these acts do not appear to constitute any crime, such as rape or sodomy or even assault or battery. As for civil law, sexual harassment requires more than a single case of unwelcome touching; there must be either a threat or promise of sex in exchange for a job benefit or demotion, or the hostile environment must be severe and pervasive.

But none of these women, as The Times emphasizes, ever came forward to complain. The newspaper went looking for them, and then waited until five days before the election to tell the fragments of the story.

What this story accomplishes is less an attack on Schwarzenegger than a smear on the press. It reaffirms everything that's wrong with the political process. Anonymous charges from years ago made in the closing days of a campaign undermine fair politics.

Facing these charges, a candidate has two choices. If he denies them, the story keeps building and overshadows everything else he does. Schwarzenegger's bold apology is a gamble to make the story go away. It may or may not work.

But here's my prediction, as a Californian: It's too late for the Los Angeles Times' charges to have much impact. People have made up their minds. This attack, coming as late as it does, from a newspaper that has been acting more like a cheerleader for Gray Davis than an objective source of information, will be dismissed by most people as more Davis-like dirty politics. Is this the worst they could come up with? Ho-hum. After what we've been through?

To his credit, Schwarzenegger apologized for "behaving badly." So should the Los Angeles Times.

[steve(thelil)]

Anyone who believes that there were only 6 incidents and/or that the reported ones were the worst is extremely delusional. If you wanna give the huge movie action hero star a pass for behaviour that's one thing. But to believe think that someone who lived in a distorted world in which he was given a pass - or even rewarded - for bad behavior has what it takes to be a Governor is head in the sand stuff.

[Gary Sisco]

Steve -- You can't be serious. Governor's are given passes as a career in this country. Give me a break, already. It's nearly codified at this point that the ruling class is above and beyond the law as the rest of us know it.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally posted by steve(thelil)
Anyone who believes that there were only 6 incidents and/or that the reported ones were the worst is extremely delusional. If you wanna give the huge movie action hero star a pass for behaviour that's one thing. But to believe think that someone who lived in a distorted world in which he was given a pass - or even rewarded - for bad behavior has what it takes to be a Governor is head in the sand stuff.

Those are pretty strong words from someone who has planted himself firmly in the "it was only a lie about a blowjob" camp.

[moneyp]

Just an FYI, tales of Arnold's on-set shenanigans have been common gossip fodder throughout the industry for many years now. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see him own up to them somewhat, but I guess if he went up there and said he was a saint and that none of it ever happened, there might be a huge backlash.

[Monte Smith]

Originally posted by Tom Storer
Monte, what's your T-shirt size?

L should do, Tom.

[steve(thelil)]

If Clinton went around groping people against their will (like Arnold did and even sort of admits to) that would be alot worse than lying about getting voluntary blowjobs. I don't believe Clintonwas a serial assaulter. He may have been a sleazy womanizer. There's a difference between that and a serial sexual assaulter, which I do believe Arnold was.


I know that JMJ is capable of understanding the following. I really do: .Telling the truth about doing something really bad is nice. Arnold telling the truth about assaulting people is not a bad thing. It's wonderful. But his history of DOING the really bad things is worse than lying about things that are nobody's business.


However, it may not be not worse than lying about reasons for starting a war that killed hundreds of Americans, thousands of innocents, created chaos in a country and maybe DESTABILIZed the region for the forseeable future. Not to mention spending 10's of billions.

[patricia]

Well, if even a fraction of the boorish behaviour he has been accused of is true, it certainly rises well above what the country spent a full year and millions of dollars to investigate.
If the accusations of NON-CONSENTUAL acts of agression are true, they say something very disturbing about the attitude toward women of Mr. Schwartzenegger, IMO. People don't suddenly become respectuful of women, if their history is the opposite.
I will concede, however, that if Mr Clinton had just owned up to the incidents, [I won't call it an affair, because clearly it was just "services rendered" between him and Ms Lewinsky], the whole thing would have gone away.
Clearly, Mr Schwartzenegger has taken a lesson from that debacle and it seems to be working.
Saying he's sorry if he offended anyone is the advice he seems to be taking. OOPS. I guess that's enough for Californians.
Boys will be boys, I guess.

[Clay Fink]

"eating isn't cheating" - attribtued to Arnold.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally posted by steve(thelil)
If Clinton went around groping people against their will [/QUOTE

If??? In my opinion, the C-man was (and perhaps still is) every bit the groper that Arnold is (or was), though I will admit that this is based only upon my personal opinion. There can be no doubt that he is (or was) a serial liar, however.

[/B]

Telling the truth about doing something really bad is nice. Arnold telling the truth about assaulting people is not a bad thing. It's wonderful. But his history of DOING the really bad things is worse than lying about things that are nobody's business. [/B][/QUOTE]

I can agree with that, but to turn that rationale back on you, given that the newspapers had to go find these people, is what Arnold did (as a private citizen, I might add) any more or less our business than what the C-man did in the Oval Office while on the public dime? It's a matter of personal opinion, I guess. As I have said before, I wouldn't vote for him, and I'm hardly in the rah-rah, let's elect Arnold camp.

As far as the rationale for the action in Iraq, I can agree that it was shaky, at best. Maybe even made out of whole cloth. However, (and maybe I'm mischaracterizing your view) to suggest that the region was stable while Hussein was in power, while perhaps strictly true, at least in relative terms, is laughable. Germany was stable under Hitler, and for the same reason: he was a tyrant. Hussein never declared war on us or our interests directly (at least not since he invaded Kuwait), but I truly feel that his actions (seeking to accumulate "first strike" weappons, paying cash to the families of suicide bombers, etc.) posed a serious threat to the future stability of the region, and a showdown was inevitable. Perhaps it was better to take him out while we knew we had the advantage of military superiority. Or maybe not. Again, a matter of opinion.

[steve(thelil)]

Oh. I see: When a conservative who is acting under color of patriotism lies about somthing with implications that affect the security of the whole world it's "shaky rationale" . When a guy lies about a blowjob it's an impeachable offense.

And if you really eally do believe Clinton goes around grabbing women against their will, it's because you hate him (rather than you hating him because he's a serial grabber)

[Uli]

Originally posted by jesus marion joseph
Perhaps it was better to take him out while we knew we had the advantage of military superiority. Or maybe not. Again, a matter of opinion.

At the risk of sounding very repetitious, imho, it was a matter of the UN's opinion who's charter we have signed.

Just to clear things up for my extremely confused friend Frankenpoot,

A: I do not support the California recall

B: I would NOT vote for Arnold

C: I do not live in California

D: When the hell did I say anything about Clinton's misadventures being any worse than Arnolds?

E: You want outrage? Go to California. None of this has ANY effect on me, so I couldn't care less. If Arnold ever tries to run for governor of Missouri, THEN you will hear something from me.

F: I do not condone sexual abuse of women from ANYONE. I don't give a fuck what their political affiliation is.


I mean really Fartinpoop, what the hell are you trying to call me out on this for? Stop grasping at straws and looking for unrelated things to try and drag me down with. What a silly fuck.

When a conservative who is acting under color of patriotism lies about somthing with implications that affect the security of the whole world it's "shaky rationale" .

Lies?

[steve(thelil)]

Lies. The big one being that the motive for war was weapons of mass destruction.


PS. Scott, i have as strong an impulse to go crazy venting as much as anyone, but when you start namecalling you lose some credibility.

So what, my answers to Frankenpoot's question aren't credible?

[cookie]

I don't know where Larry Flynt's candidacy stands at this point (you know, the "pornographer who cares"), but he said at least a month ago in a Salon interview that he would use Schwarzenegger's "personal life" against him. I had known about the 70s interview about the group sex and stuff for a long time, so when Larry said he'd use Ahnohld's "personal life" against him, I had a pretty good idea of what he was talking about.

I wasn't surprised in the least by the reports of groping. And now I think that it may have been pretty common knowledge in Hollywood.

I'd pick Flynt over Schwarzenegger. I don't think either one would be a particularly wonderful governor, but I'd trust Flynt first.

[RBS]

There was an article in Spy magazine some years back. Arnold was notoriously famous for womanizing.

Some of his comments:

"Polish da helmet."
"It's not cheating. They're only plowchobs."

[Salvador Dali Lama]

you tools need to get over this shit.

if arnold was a democrat, most of you fuckers screaming foul would dig him.

[Enforcer]

Originally posted by Clay Fink
"eating isn't cheating" - attribtued to Arnold.

Yeah! Old news. Surprised people forgot about it. It was just a couple of years ago that this stuff surfaced for the first time. Great quote. It's really funny in his accent.

Larry

[Gordon B]

What was the most recent year for which Arnold was alleged to have made unwelcome gropes of women?