Massachusetts' wacky "blue laws"

[jesus marion joseph]

Here in the Land of the Pilgrims, some old habits die hard, such as the antiquated "blue laws", which require me to rememeber to purchase beer on Saturday if I want to drink them on Sunday. Here's an article illustrating how such ridiculous laws stay in effect:


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Reps' booze-sale vote keeps us singing the blues

by Howie Carr
Friday, October 10, 2003


How Massachusetts is it - the Legislature has a perfect opportunity to abolish an outdated blue law that prohibits some, but not all, liquor stores from opening Sundays.


And besides moving the state into the 21st century, the Legislature could also raise revenues that could be used . . . for the children.

More convenience, more fairness and more money. H. 1474 sounds like a win-win, a no-brainer.

But this is Massachusetts, and so the bill went down in the House, 88-64.

Because everybody was playing the angles.

See, the hack reps in the border towns where package stores are already allowed to open Sundays are very concerned about the menace of a ``level playing field.'' Which is odd, because the reason they pushed to allow their stores to open on Sundays was so that their so-called mom-and-pops could have a level playing field with New Hampshire. But now that the border towns have got theirs, they want to stop every other mom-and-pop from playing by the same rules.

That wouldn't be . . . fair.

Excuse me, but didn't supermarkets and malls used to be closed on Sundays, too? Ditto, the banks - remember the long lines at the branches every Friday afternoon before ATMs, when people had to get their cash for the weekend? Those were the good old days, all right.

So the mom-and-pops will have to open Sundays? Welcome to the club, Mom and Pop. Where I live, even the town dump is open on Sundays.

And by the way, nothing in the bill makes Sunday openings mandatory. If Mom and Pop don't want to open, they can watch pro football on TV all day long, like everybody else.

If you check the roll call on H. 1474, you'll see that the House speaker, Tommy Taxes, voted for the bill.

But it's odd how three of his chairmen, who were present on all the other votes late Wednesday morning and early afternoon, suddenly vanished for the final vote.

Paging Reps. John Rogers, Angelo Scaccia and Peter Koutoujian. Where'd you guys go? I called all three of them, and only Koutoujian, the least connected of the three, called back.

He was chairing a hearing downstairs, with hundreds of people.

``If I'd left, I would have had to recess the hearing,'' he said. ``I tried to get back upstairs to vote, but I was a little late. I would have voted yes.''

The most absurd thing about this whole horse-and-buggy Cotton Mather law is that it's already been about half-repealed, in slow motion.

You can suck down a Hoodsie in any restaurant or bar, or buy a case to go in any town within 10 miles of the state border, or anywhere in the state on the weekends between Thanksgiving and New Year's.

In other words, the law only applies to some people, sometimes. But if it doesn't apply to you, then you've got an edge on everybody else, and everybody wants to keep their edge.

Just ask Rep. Arthur Broadhurst (D-Methuen). He tried to insert an amendment that said, basically, if you let everyone else open at noon, then allow our border packies to open three hours earlier, at . . . 9 a.m.?

So much for the spend-more-time-with-the-family argument.

Oh well, at least this charade is a good opening act for the eventual slot machines debate. Once you OK slots at four tracks and two casinos, how are you going to stop everyone else from demanding them, too?

Eventually, they'll be in the package stores, too, first in Methuen, then everywhere else. It's the Massachusetts way.

Howie Carr's radio show can be heard every weekday afternoon on WRKO-AM 680, WHYN-AM 560, WGAN-AM 560, WEIM-AM 1280, and WXTK 95.1 FM.>>>

[mke]

Is the House Speaker really called Tommy Taxes?

[Alastair]

The Speaker of the House of Massachusetts is called "Tommy Taxes"?

[mke]

--------> <---------

[walto]

FWIW, I worked for the Mass. House Commerce & Labor Committee back in the early 1980's. It was PHENOMENALLY difficult to get the law changed then to allow supermarket openings at noon. Tim Bassett (the House Chairman at the time) dragged it through, though. Had to buy off the Boston Archdiocese and the convenience store association with various other thing they were itching for. Bassett was one of McGee's special pets, so he could deliver goodies like that.

I love Dan Bosley--he's probably the nicest and funniest legislator I've ever met--but I don't know if he's got the energy, perseverence, and pull to accomplish this. He's more of a thorn to Finneran than a fair haired boy. I hope he can manage it, though.

[walto]

Oh, Howie Carr (the Boston Herald columnist and anti-gov't radio talk show host that wrote this) is famous for his adolescent nicknames (like "Tommy Taxes"). Makes his fans absolutely swoon!!!

[mke]

Originally posted by walto
Oh, Howie Carr (the Boston Herald columnist and anti-gov't radio talk show host that wrote this) is famous for his adolescent nicknames (like "Tommy Taxes"). Makes his fans absolutely swoon!!!

From the writer's tone, I suspected that something was amiss.

[jesus marion joseph]

"Tommy Taxes" is Howie Carr's "adolescent nickname" for Tom Finneran, the Speaker of the House here in Massachu. Personally, I don't have too much of a problem with Finneran, but he did make some really lame statements on the House floor a while back when he spnsored a bill to increase the pay of legislators (and, at the same time reward certain loyalists with extra $$), but he couldn't get it passed.

The blue laws, on the other hand, are just plain stupid (IMHO). Most average folks have two days off per week, and they can only buy alcoholic beverages on one of those days. Loopy.

[Brian Olewnick]

Given that the laws have religious beliefs as their basis (I'm assuming--is this correct?), how could they possibly stand a constitutional challenge? How, constitutionally, can a state tell certain businesses that they can't operate on certain days of the week?

[walto]

There's nothing explicitly about religion in the "blue laws."

BTW, though JMJ has nothing against Finneran, I think he's just as autocratic and obnoxious McGee, Flaherty, and the rest of that gang (Bulger in the Senate, too). The only decent Speaker I can remember in the past 25 years was George Kevarian--who changed the rules to actually share some power with the other reps.

But JMJ's buddy Howie Carr made fun of Kevarian because of his weight. Said really hilarious stuff like "Kevarian (D-Papa Ginos)...." The rank-and-file members didn't really like having any actual responsibilities, especially when their Speaker was fat and a talk-show laughingstock. So now we have one guy running the House again. An arrogant guy, at that.

[jesus marion joseph]

I think Walter is correct that there is no explicit religiosity to the blue laws, though they were born of Puritan intemperance (or is it temerance?). Since the state regulates liquor licenses, they have the authority to regulate the hours of sale of alcoholic beverages.

Though I will admit that I often read his articles in the Herald and listen to his radio show, I'm hardly Howie's "buddy". He definitely goes over the line with the fat jokes (even though he's not particularly slim himself) and on other topics on which he is obviously under or uninformed, and I truly was not aware that Howie's Keverian jokes caused him to lose credibility among the rank and file membership of the House when he was speaker. Perhaps that says as much about the rank and file as it does about Howie, though.

You must admit though, Walter, that the "Wizard of Uhs" segments are pretty damned funny. Additionally, he is always willing to play the voice mail messages in which callers skewer him with his own form of humor.

Incidentally, several years ago Joe Kennedy actually appeared on the show (live in the studio), and even took some calls from obnoxious listeners (I know what you're thinking and no, I was not one of them). He also got in a good dig about the "Wizard of Uhs" gag by running an audio clip of Howie stuttering and stammering on the air, with the illicit assistance of Howie's own staff.

[Al in NYC]

Massachusetts is hardly the only state with blue laws. Here in NY liquor stores are closed on Sunday, meaning that one cannot buy liquor, wine, or basically any alcoholic beverage other than beer on Sunday. A fact which constantly surprises visitors from other countries like California (one of the funnier sights in NYC is watching Californians fruitlessly wandering around our supermarkets looking for "the wine section"). It's also illegal to buy beer in a store or any alcoholic beverage in a bar before noon on Sunday. A law was passed here in the last year making it legal for a limited number of liquor stores per county to apply (and pay) for a permit to open on Sunday, if they closed one other day of the week. Very few stores, however, have taken them up on the offer.

[mke]

Is a supermarket without a wine section worth visiting?

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally posted by walto
There's nothing explicitly about religion in the "blue laws."
.

That it's on Sunday is just a coincidence?

[shrugs]

CT has the lame laws as well. One of the worst is prohibiting Breweries from selling beer to go on site. Most states allow a Brewery to sell growlers of fresh beer right from the Brewery or Brewpub.
Just be glad you don't live in a state that won't allow you to buy any beer over 6%.
And I think it does reflect a religous stance especially since New Englanders are so uptight with their Puritan roots and all.

[Alastair]

Originally posted by shrugs

Just be glad you don't live in a state that won't allow you to buy any beer over 6%.

What? But I assume Wine (10-15% on average) and spirits (40% and up) are OK...

Insanity.

[walto]

"That it's on Sunday is just a coincidence?"

No, of course it's not a coincidence, but I don't think a constitutional challenge based on our knowledge that this is NO COINCIDENCE, DAMMIT, is likely to make much hay. As JMJ say, the state gets to regulate alcoholic bev. distribution pretty much as they please. IIRC, though, there were some interesting cases about the (physical rather than psychical) distance between churches and liquor selling establishments.

"You must admit though, Walter, that the "Wizard of Uhs" segments are pretty damned funny."

I do admit that. I read his column more often than I really think I should, and I've laughed at some of his (dumb) jokes. But he's also caused pain to some friends of mine for no apparent reason. A good number of his attacks are just gratuitous. He pretty much lumps every state workers in with organized crime figures.

I suppose you get tired of lawyer jokes after a while.

[shrugs]

Originally posted by Alastair
What? But I assume Wine (10-15% on average) and spirits (40% and up) are OK...

Insanity.

Yes, wine is fine since it is the choice of the more sophisticated. Just look at how most outdoor symphony concerts allow you to bring wine but NO BEER.

Another idiotic law: Beer stores in Pennsylvania can only sell whole cases of beer. You have to go to an Inn to buy a 6 pack and they jack up the price.

Utah and Oklahoma only allow breweries to sell beer at 3.2% except in state run stores.

I am pretty sure both Ohio and North Carolina limit all beer to 6%.

[hornplayer]

........ Howie Carr sucks raw eggs. (imho, of course)

but the blue laws are archaic. and so are the laws of compensation if you get injured as a result of an "obstruction of the way" in the City of Boston... (actually, anywhere in the Commonwealth).

[Alastair]

Originally posted by shrugs
Yes, wine is fine since it is the choice of the more sophisticated. Just look at how most outdoor symphony concerts allow you to bring wine but NO BEER.

Another idiotic law: Beer stores in Pennsylvania can only sell whole cases of beer. You have to go to an Inn to buy a 6 pack and they jack up the price.

Utah and Oklahoma only allow breweries to sell beer at 3.2% except in state run stores.

I am pretty sure both Ohio and Nort Carolina limit all beer to 6%.

Crikey. What with these and the rules concerning who can stand for president, perhaps you should have a "Repeal All Stupid Laws" party. I'd vote for it (I do live in the 51st state, after all)

[shrugs]

And those states with no Sunday sales are spending tax money on prosecuting those who sell beer illegally on Sundays. Not to mention using police time. The Hartford Courant had an article about it over a year ago. I seem to remember that there was a portion of the vice squad dedicated to this area.

[Tom Storer]

Living in a country where most stores are closed by 7:30 on weekday and Saturday evenings and all day Sunday, I have no sympathy! You American residents are spoiled by the 24/7 mentality. The last time I was in New York I was hurrying to buy something on Saturday and a friend said what's the hurry, get it tomorrow. I said, "But tomorrow is Sunday!" He looked at me in bewilderment, and I remembered that things are open on Sundays there.

But many a corner grocery is open on Sunday in Paris, and you can get wine and beer there, but at high prices, and the wine is usually pretty poor. Still, you can get it. So I'll shut up.

[walto]

You make a good point, Tom. I was hell bent for complete elimination of the blue laws back in the 80s, but be careful what you dream. It wasn't really soooo bad not having all that traffic/hassle one full day a week. Sunday mornings are still kind of quiet and low gas fume, which is nice.

[shrugs]

Yeah, we're spoiled. And I'll be even more spoiled when I move to New Orleans in 20 days.
I'll be about 5 minutes from this great store.


http://www.martinwine.com/

[shrugs]

Originally posted by walto
You make a good point, Tom. I was hell bent for complete elimination of the blue laws back in the 80s, but be careful what you dream. It wasn't really soooo bad not having all that traffic/hassle one full day a week. Sunday mornings are still kind of quiet and low gas fume, which is nice.

That's a joke. People will be on the roads either way.

[walto]

The highways, maybe.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally posted by walto
[BI read his column more often than I really think I should, and I've laughed at some of his (dumb) jokes. But he's also caused pain to some friends of mine for no apparent reason. A good number of his attacks are just gratuitous. He pretty much lumps every state workers in with organized crime figures.

I suppose you get tired of lawyer jokes after a while. [/FONT] [/B]

I agree that his tirades against "payroll patriots" often go too far, and I cringe when he rattles off salaries of public employees, without disclosing his own salary (rumored to be "800 large"). On the other hand, he does occasionally hit the mark. As for lawyer jokes, they just come with the territory. Unfortunately, some lawyers *are* jokes.

[Al in NYC]

Originally posted by Tom Storer
Living in a country where most stores are closed by 7:30 on weekday and Saturday evenings and all day Sunday, I have no sympathy! You American residents are spoiled by the 24/7 mentality. The last time I was in New York I was hurrying to buy something on Saturday and a friend said what's the hurry, get it tomorrow. I said, "But tomorrow is Sunday!" He looked at me in bewilderment, and I remembered that things are open on Sundays there.

But many a corner grocery is open on Sunday in Paris, and you can get wine and beer there, but at high prices, and the wine is usually pretty poor. Still, you can get it. So I'll shut up.

One of the biggest cuture shocks of my life was when I arrived for my 8 month stay in Germany on a Saturday night. The company apartment I was given was totally bereft of supplies, but I couldn't even buy a bar of soap (which was a bit important because I had an interview with my boss at 8 AM on Monday and hadn't bathed since Friday morning in NYC). I had lived overseas before in several countries in Asia, so "foreigness" was no real problem, but I kept walking around town all night on Saturday and all day on Sunday unable to wrap my head around the concept that I was in a thoroughly modern country where EVERYTHING (except bars and a few gas stations) was closed until Monday morning.

One thing I could never figure out was how one was supposed to buy the things one needed under this system. I would go into work before the stores opened, and would most often get out after they had closed. If I did manage to get out a little early there was always a mad rush and crush at the supermarket (they all closed at 6:00 by law) of people trying desperately to buy some food to eat before everything shut down. There was basically NO time for me to go shopping for books, clothes, etc.

The entire system seemed, to my admittedly American mindset, to be maddeningly set up so as to be as inconvenient as possible to customers -- especially those with actual jobs -- and to cost the stores tons of potential sales for no discernable reason. The Americans, Canadians, Japanese, and Koreans I was working with found the whole thing quite infuriating. We were at a loss to understand why anyone would support or want a system like this, but Germans of my acquaintence seemed to just accept it as a matter of course and were quite baffled by my complaints.

[walto]

I'm not sure if you're complaining about the German system or not, Al, but I'm curious if you think that Sunday closings laws are entirely different from other laws that regulate commerce, like those requiring the payment of overtime, lunch breaks, etc., purchase of workers' compensation insurance, etc. I mean, they're all "anti-free market" and that extent, arguably "anti-consumer"--but they have other benefits, no?

[Tom Storer]

Originally posted by shrugs
That's a joke. People will be on the roads either way.

Not true. A lot of traffic is work-related. When store employees aren't going to work and deliveries aren't being made to stores and people aren't driving out to malls to make purchases, there is a lot less traffic. Everybody can sleep late and, yes, spend more time with their families, so the streets are also a lot emptier in the morning.

Originally posted by Al in NYC
One thing I could never figure out was how one was supposed to buy the things one needed under this system. I would go into work before the stores opened, and would most often get out after they had closed.

Not everyone - especially in Western Europe ;-) - has working hours that exceed store opening hours at both ends of the day. Typically in France stores open around 8 and office workers don't start work until 9 (at the earliest), for example. And there's always Saturday. The reason people accept it is that they're used to it and organize their shopping accordingly. We do our grocery shopping for the week on Saturday, and tend to have a small backup supply of certain essential items like soap etc. just in case.

The system is undoubtedly old-fashioned, it's true. Twenty-five years ago a lot fewer women were working, and not being open 24/7 wasn't a problem for most families because the woman could always run out to the shops during the day. It's less practical, of course, now that families where both partners work are much more common. And it's during that same period that America, which is socially so much more flexible, grew into the 24/7 country to match people's lifestyle trends (and accelerate them). Here, you need a generation or more for institutions to catch up to what people need.

Then again, is it a really a "need" people want satisfied, or do they wish to keep a brake on things? The French would find it convenient to be able to shop 24/7, but with their deep distrust of employers, they suspect this would actually be a ruse to force them to work on Sunday whether they liked it or not - and Sunday is family day, it really is. As usual in France, people rarely admit that some compromises are necessary if they are to at once protect themselves from the evil designs of employers and also solve the problem of high unemployment.