Sunny Murray with Burrell & Mateen at Tonic

[Pete C]

There was plenty of great music last night, but also plenty of weirdness. I've been told that Sunny Murray is indeed "unpredictable."

Michael Ehlers from Eremite was there to record it. And, it turns out, to keep a certain amount of order.

Generally, pieces opened with Sunny setting rhythm & mood on solo drums, with Dave and Sabir joining in at what they saw as openings. There was some really high energy stuff early on, with Sabir burning on tenor and Burrell feeding his trademark rich chords. At a certain point, maybe 1/2 hour into the first set, Burrell was soloing, and Sunny dropped out; after a while, he and Mateen left the stage. Burrell then had the stage to himself for a long, long, developing solo thing. Then, all of a sudden, Sunny came back up to the stage and said, "set's over." Burrell stopped dead in his tracks, startled. But Murray stayed up in front by the stage and started a rambling monologue while breaking the NYC anti-smoking law. At one point someone asked him something about Paris, and did what threatened to turn into a can can. Soon Ehlers came up and asked Sunny if it was a set break. Sunny said something I couldn't make out, and got back behind the drums.

From that point on, Burrell seemed pretty reticent about stretching out, and several pieces ended with Burrell cutting things short. But he was still vital in the ensemble. Mateen alternated tenor and alto, with a little clarinet.

I think the second part of the first set went on for another 45 minutes.

After a real set break, they came back on and followed a similar pattern, with Murray setting the tone for the improvisations. One tune opened with Sunny playing straight 3/4, though it mutated when the others joined in.

But after 1/2 hour of the second set, Sunny got up and thanked the audience. I certainly would have been pissed if I had just come for the second show. Ehlers went up and whispered something in his ear, and Murray said "You want me to play some more? I can play some more." He sat down again behind the set, and the trio played another 10 or 15 minutes, and that was it.

For all the weirdness, during the stretches that the music was happening it was brilliant.

For me Sabir Mateen was the revelation of the evening, since I'd only seen him previously once or twice at the Astor Place subway station. He has a beautiful sound on both tenor and alto, and combines true lyricism and bluesiness with top notch energy playing.

Among the luminaries in the audience were Cecil Taylor, Henry Grimes and Rashied Ali.

[mke]

The one time I saw Sunny Murray, here in Brussels, there were no such weirdness. Afterwards I talked to him for a good while. He did seem a bit eccentric, but not overly so.

[Frisco]

I caught the concert in Buffalo last week, a duo between Sabir and Sunny. It was a bit wierd during the second set. The first set was a good 45 minutes of scintillating, high energy, free-jazz. Sabir mostly on tenor and some bass clarinet, Sunny driving the sound, playing ferociously at times, breaking a drum stick, also using mallets during one segment.

In between sets, I had a chance to visit with them for a few minutes. There was a gentleman sitting with them, but I wasn't introduced, nor did he say a word. After a half hour break, they came back to the stage with this gentleman on alto sax. No introduction, no explanation. They never did tell us who he was, where he was from, or why he was there. Michael Ehlers didn't even know where he came from. He and Sabir played dual altos, with Sunny, for about 10 minutes, then this guy dueted with Sunny, Sabir tried to reenter on clarinet but found that wasn't working and switched to tenor. The set went on for about 30 minutes total and suddenly ended. They did a short encore segment.

After that absolutely excellent first set, the second set left many of us sort of loking at each other as if to say, "what just happened?" Nice concert overall, though. It was great to see Sunny after a few years. I think the last time I saw him was in a trio at Vision fest with Shipp and Parker. But the one I remember most was a trio at the old Knitting Factory Fests with Charles Gayle and Parker, some of which is on CD. The night before he played a duo with Gayle at the Cooler.

[mke]

Originally posted by Frisco
After that absolutely excellent first set, the second set left many of us sort of loking at each other as if to say, "what just happened?"

Was the mystery man no good?

[Frisco]

The mystery man was OK. But I can't say that the three really engaged except for a few minutes at the beginning of the set. Then, all of a sudden, it was over.

[Paul B]

They should bring Sunny Murray to the Vision Festival, which could sorely use some truncated sets....

Bye-ya.

[Pete C]

Paul, my sources tell me you were at a couple of shows recently. Review 'em!

[Uli]

Originally posted by Paul B
They should bring Sunny Murray to the Vision Festival, which could sorely use some truncated sets....

The problem with that is, that as the flavors of the day change, nobody can make it right anymore even for all the minions, or ex-minions, as the case now may be. When Sunny Murray was playing, Ollie called it a yawn-lineup.

[Paul B]

When Sunny Murray was playing, Ollie called it a yawn-lineup

Stupor-inducing mediocrity would better describe much of what I've heard at the VF over the years...But M. Olewnick's words sum things up just fine.

And I will post some reviews Pete....look for them later today.

Bye-ya.

[Uli]

Originally posted by Paul B
Stupor-inducing mediocrity would better describe much of what I've heard at the VF over the years...But M. Olewnick's words sum things up just fine.

Yeah, I know it's become the fashion to take cheap shots against the VF.


llook here is last years lineup. Unfortunately I could not attend but I have heard most of the musicians over the years and many are among my favorites. Now, I grant you, may have different taste, you may have a much more advanced understanding of music than I have, you may have better ears but if you say that most of these musicians played stupor-inducing mediocrity, I think you have no clue what your talking about.

ART OPENING

Thursday May 22 - 5pm -7pm

PERSPECTIVES
7 Visual Artists 7 Views at Vision 8
Kiernan Costello, Susan Mastrangelo, Yuko Otomo, Jorgo Schafer,
Jeff Schlanger, Marilyn Sontag, and Jo Wood Brown



FILMS AT VISION 8
Downstairs at the Center
May 24 - May 25 - May 26 @ 3pm


DAILY SCHEDULE:



Wednesday May 21

7:30 Joseph Jarman Opening Invocation

8:00 Joe Maneri Trio / Matt Maneri / Randy Peterson / Christine Coppola dance



9:00 Poet Carl Hancock Rux / DJ Spooky



10:00 Billy Bang Sextet Featuring Frank Lowe with Todd Nicholson, Andrew Bemkey, Tyshawn Sorey, and Tatsuya Nakatani



11:00 Patty Waters / Burton Greene / Mark Dresser



Thursday May 22



7:30 Bill Cole Project / Warren Smith drums / Cooper Moore percussion (Handmade instruments / Patricia Smith poet



8:30pm David S. Ware Quratet with Matthew Shipp, William Parker & Guillermo E. Brown



9:30pm Fred Anderson/Harrison Bankhead DUO



10:30pm The Jemeel Moondoc/Connie Crothers Quintet with Nathan Breedlove, Adam Lane & John McCutcheon





Friday May 23


7:30 Edwin Torres poet / Sean G. Meehan on snare drum



8:30 Kali Fasteau /Mixashawn /Maria Mitchell /Newman Taylor-Baker



9:30 Roy Campbell / Joe McPhee, Warren Smith, William Parker



10:30 Andrew Cyrille / Kidd Jordan / William Parker



11:30 Raphe Malik Quartet Sabir Mateen Larry Rolands Warren Smith




Saturday May 24



3:00 pm Zak Sherzad 15 minute film WHATS ALL THAT ABOUT ( filmed at vision fest 02) excerpts from last years performance with Peter Kowald, William Parker and Roy Campbell.

(Downstairs at the Center on Mulberry Street $6 at the door)



3:15 pm STEVE GEBHARDT's 83~min. film of "ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL," (filmed inO7O, released in O99) Documents CARLA BLEY¹s jazz opera in rehearsal, performance, & recording, with
GATO BARBIERI/ JACK BRUCE/ DON CHERRY/ CHARLIE HADEN/ HOWARD JOHNSON/ SHEILA JORDAN/ JEANNE LEE/ JOHN McLAUGHLIN/ ROSWELL RUDD/ VIVA
(Downstairs at the Center on Mulberry Street $6 at the door)


7:30 Amina & Amiri Baraka w/ Blue Ark: The WordShip Dwight West, vocals Rahman Herbie Morgan, Andy McCloud, Vijay Iyer, Rudy Walker, guest DJ Spooky



8:30 Rob Brown / William Parker



9:30 Milford Graves / Peter Brotzmann



10:30 Jin Hi Kim Trio, Billy Bang, William Parker



11:30 Louis Belogenis, Roy Campbell, Hill Green, Michael Wimberly



12:30 Improvs: Tatsuya Nakatani, Roy Campbell, Lewis Barnes, Jonathan LaMaster and others



Sunday May 25

3:00 pm BILL WARRELL¹s 60 minute film JAZZ DANCING
Bill Warrell has put together a documentary on JULIUS HEMPHILL and DON PULLEN, Portraits: hosted by Bill T. Jones.
Dancer/choreographer Jones looks at the stage on which modern jazz and modern dance meet. This is done through a study of the careers of
composer/Musicians, Julius Hemphill and Don Pullen. It focuses on their
most ambitious works "Long Tongues: A Saxophone Opera", "Last Supper at Uncle Tom¹s Cabin: The Promised land", and "Earth Eagle First Circle". It also explores the creation of a new collaboration between Bill T. Jones and Fred Hersch. w.warrell@worldnet.att.net

(Downstairs at the Center on Mulberry Street $6 at the door)

4:00 pm RUOMI LEE-HAMPEL¹s 7 minute film, PACE (filmed in 2002)
This film is about trying to work it out, cause we all know, it ain¹t always easy. Music of JEANNE LEE & GUNTER HAMPEL. RUOMI LEE-HAMPEL¹s 13 minute, HELL HATH NO FURY (filmed in 2001) Images depicting a cautionary tale are guided by the Voice of JEANNE LEE.


7:30 Thomas Buckner, Roscoe Mitchell, Jerome Cooper, Harrison Bankhead



8:30 John Zorn Masada String Trio Mark Feldman Erik Friedlander and Greg Cohen





9:30 Matthew Shipp Quartet, Daniel Carter, William Parker, Gerald Cleaver



10:30 Whit Dickey with Rob Brown, Roy Campbell and Joe Morris



11:30 Patricia Nicholson¹s PaNic Dance Music Joseph Jarman, Cooper Moore



Monday May 26 ~ Jeanne Lee Memorial

3:00 pm GILLES CORRE¹S 60 minute film WOMEN IN JAZZ (filmed in 1999)
A film about the evolution of women in jazz includes footage of JEANNE LEE, JANE IRA BLOOM , MIYA MASAOKA, ELLEN CHRISTI, JANE BENNETT, MARILYN CRISPELL SUSIE IBARRA, JAYNE CORTEZ and many others. gil.corre@free.fr

4:00 pm LAURENCE PETIT~JOUVET¹s film , OFF THE ROAD" (Filmed in 2000) This film documents PETER KOWALD U.S. tour 2000. It includes footage with RASHIED ALI/ FRED ANDERSON/ HAMID DRAKE/ MARCO ENEIDI/ ALVIN FIELDER/ EDDIE
GALE/ KIDD JORDAN/ GEORGE LEWIS/ WILLIAM PARKER/ DONALD ROBINSON/ GUNTER "BABY" SOMMER/ ASSIF TSAHAR & others http://www.mildoc.com



7:30 Steve Dalachinsky, Poet, Treva Offut dance & vocals, Frederico Ughi drums



8:30 Gunter Hampel Galaxy Dream Band, Perry Robinson, Lou Grassi, Mark Whitecage w/ spoken work Ruomi Lee Hampel, Herscel Silverman, dance Prince Alegs



9:30 Amina Claudine Myers Solo piano voice



10:30 William Parker leads the Jeanne Lee Project voices: Thomas Buckner, Ellen Christi, Jay Clayton, Lisa Sokolov; Rob Brown alto, Lewis Barnes trumpet, Joe Daley tuba Cooper Moore ashimba, piano, Gerald Cleaver drums, William Parker balaphon, Ngoni, bass and

special guest Henry Grimes

[Frisco]

Gosh, I feel like such a fool, driving 600 miles to witness "stupor-inducing mediocrity". Those Vision people just can't seem to put in an honest day's work. Hard to imagine how Cecil kept that mediocre Parker in his band for so many years. How'd he ever keep up with Oxley? Well Paul, hope you don't make yourself miserable by attending the next one.

[Paul B]

Unlike most around here, I don't consider every note Cecil Taylor has played to be beyond reproach. I do like his Feel Trio date on FMP with Parker; among many Cecil albums, I've kept that on the shelf for many years, and will likely always have it. That, however, doesn't mean that Cecil or Parker are beyond criticism.

Once again, the Vision Festival is a line-up of the usual suspects, playing the same old same old. If you like it, more power. For the most part, I find most of it sub-par musically and flat-out boring. A few things stand out (Joe Maneri, McPhee maybe, Dresser, my friend Lewis Barnes). You can have the rest.

I'll always wonder why someone as "great" as Parker never leaves the safety of his small downtown coterie. Or, better yet, why he doesn't invite creative improvisers of all stripes to this event to make it well-rounded and interesting. Where is Ran Blake? Braxton? Rova? Vinny Golia? Paul Bley?

Or a downtown fixture like Avram Fefer, who plays strong, captivating music, and whose new release on CIMP is due out any time. Maybe he has too much chops...Maybe it's because he can play a line and doesn't need to build an entire set on extended technique (which is generally a mask for lack of technique)...Or maybe it's just that the same thing appeals to the VF audience year after year after year: free improv, which always starts and ends the same way, which lacks any sense of compositional form (one can create form while improvising), which is almost always loud...the list could go on.

So, yes Frisco, you're correct: I won't be making myself miserable by attending, and I pity anyone driving 600 miles to see this stuff. Must be boring in your neck of the woods.

Bye-ya.

[Brian Olewnick]

Hey, I gave props to the wonderful Anderson/Bankhead duo this past year, as well as being thankful for their showing of the Escalator film.

Much of their standard line-up is no longer my cup of tea (I'd've gone to see Roscoe save for the fact that I absolutely can't stand Tom Buckner's singing), but that's simply a matter of taste. I do question how it is that something advertising itself as a "Vision" festival can put on such a large scale event virtually without the presence of artists younger than 40 or so. Anderson at 80 was great, no doubt, but as a general indicator of the health of a given scene, having no one (to the best of my knowledge) in their 20s doesn't bode well. Where would the AACM have been in the 60s without youngsters like Roscoe, Braxton, Jenkins, etc......? In many ways, it's similar to the (so-called) Next Wave fest at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, one that started in the early 80s featuring (relatively) adventurous work by Reich, Glass, Threadgill, Laurie Anderson and others. Within a few years, it simply became a cash cow (in which fact, I'm guessing, it's different than the VF) for a small coterie of composers and choreographers who'd trot out variations on tried and true formulas year after year, still touting themselves as "next wave". Similar things are happening at Victo it appears to me, revolving around a Canadian contingent and Zorn-oriented downtown NYC stuff. It might be almost inevitable for events on this scale that need a sizeable core audience to survive (one that knows what they want and expect to get it) but artistically, imho, it almost always breeds stagnation.

[Paul B]

I agree. The Vision Festival seems like it should now be called The Routine Festival.

[Uli]

Originally posted by Brian Olewnick
. I do question how it is that something advertising itself as a "Vision" festival can put on such a large scale event virtually without the presence of artists younger than 40 or so. Anderson at 80 was great, no doubt, but as a general indicator of the health of a given scene, having no one (to the best of my knowledge) in their 20s doesn't bode well. Where would the AACM have been in the 60s without youngsters like Roscoe, Braxton, Jenkins, etc......? .

I thought I was already out of this "music discussion" but before I leave it to you experts, I would like to set at least some facts straight. No, the VF ain't no "Young Lions" festival. I don't know what age has to do with the quality of music and bringin it up is a bit stange when it comes from somebody who thinks two old English guys are gods gift to music. Nevertheless, Anderson is "only 74". I would assume that Adam Lane, Louis Belogenis, maybe Rob Brown, Barnes, all of Billy Bangs rhythm group, Matt Maneri, Assif Tsahar are under or around 40. You can look it up yourself, Ollie. The VF is also not a "scene". If your last comment was iro the chicago AACM, there is plenty of talent in the 20 ies coming up.

As to stuff from Paulie, things like " Or a downtown fixture like Avram Fefer, who plays strong, captivating music, and whose new release on CIMP is due out any time. Maybe he has too much chops...Maybe it's because he can play a line and doesn't need to build an entire set on extended technique (which is generally a mask for lack of technique) is just not worth any comment.

No, there is no damn festival in the world can can bring on all of everybody's favorites.

[Brian Olewnick]

I only meant to say that, for me, using the term "Vision" implies a look toward the future. Obviously, I don't care how old someone is with regard to the art they produce, but if you're talking about a group of some size working within the same general area (this would apply to any such group, not just VF), it would seem to me to be healthy to have a high proportion of youthful participants. Rowe and Tilbury (whom I guess you were referring to above) regularly work with musicians a third to half their age--and learn a great deal from them, I might add. Plus, someone like Rowe takes pains to include them in any sort of large scale event he has a hand in organizing. For my bucks, VF could use a strong shot in the arm from some 20-somethings. I wasn't referring to the current AACM at all in my comments above and I'm well aware they've continued to cultivate young musicians/artists--all to the good. I bet you the best of them aren't simply regurgitating what Roscoe Mitchell did in 1966 though.

[Uli]

No, neither are they chewing around the same stuff that some Italian futurists already did at the 1900 change of the centuries.

It's getting a bit beyond the pale, Ollie. First, you would like to see under 40. If that does not hold it, has to be twenty somethings. What makes you assume that the people performing at the VF don't regularly play with some and learn something from them? Those I know well do.


while we're at it, Ollie , for a change, I'd like to learn something from the experts. Maybe this way we can get a discussion beyond "this is better than that". What is it exactly that is new (in musical terms, not in the popular "placing it in the world terms") in Tilbury's playing? I can't hear anything that I have not heard in one form or the other. As you know, this is not a critique, as for me "newness" ain't a requirement and I like some of what I heard from him.

[saltwatersnow]

well i could point people over to the greetings compilation cd which has parker shipp etall with a bunch of 20 something improv people from new york doing different music.

[Brian Olewnick]

I've no doubt that musicians represented at VF play with younger artists on various occasions. But you'd be hard pressed to get that impression from the line-up at VF, which is what we're talking about. Here's an idea: Why doesn't Parker, in all due humility, sit out the fest for a year, along with other regulars and turn it over to young, creative musicians who could use such a showcase? If the audience is as into the music as they ought to be, it shouldn't matter that there are no "stars" playing.

re: Tilbury's "newness". I'm not sure what you mean by "placing it in the world", but certainly, for me, much of the beauty of his playing resides in his touch and the choices he makes. Very much like one would enjoy a deep and skilled conversationalist in his choice of words and avenues of attack. "New" perhaps only in the sense that no one has made those particular comments before, comments that I find very beautiful and meaningful. Technically, his pacing and touch are, imho, very unique--his Feldman, for instance, sounds like no one else's.

I should say, and I think I've said before here, that "newness" isn't a goal for me. Indeed, trying to be "new" strikes me as fruitless endeavor. However, when producing honest, individual work, freed from genre-specific constraints, newness will tend to be a by-product simply because of the individuality of the creator. As my old teacher Alton Pickens counseled, "Don't try to do anything. Just do something."

[Uli]

Originally posted by Brian Olewnick
I've no doubt that musicians represented at VF play with younger artists on various occasions. But you'd be hard pressed to get that impression from the line-up at VF, which is what we're talking about. Here's an idea: Why doesn't Parker, in all due humility, sit out the fest for a year, along with other regulars and turn it over to young, creative musicians who could use such a showcase? If the audience is as into the music as they ought to be, it shouldn't matter that there are no "stars" playing.

Well, it's his festival. He organizes it. I am not living in New York but from what I know some of the "stars" don't get to play in New York much and nobody else organizes anything for them. I believe Anderson's first gig at the VF was his first in New York ever even if he had been all over Europe before. If for your taste Parker plays too much, just don't go but why the need to put it down?

Originally posted by Brian Olewnick
re: Tilbury's "newness". I'm not sure what you mean by "placing it in the world", but certainly, for me, much of the beauty of his playing resides in his touch and the choices he makes. Very much like one would enjoy a deep and skilled conversationalist in his choice of words and avenues of attack. "New" perhaps only in the sense that no one has made those particular comments before, comments that I find very beautiful and meaningful. Technically, his pacing and touch are, imho, very unique--his Feldman, for instance, sounds like no one else's.

Cool. These reasons are no different than those for wich I like a lot of jazz musicians including many playing at the VF.

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally posted by Uli
Well, it's his festival. He organizes it. I am not living in New York but from what I know some of the "stars" don't get to play in New York much and nobody else organizes anything for them. I believe Anderson's first gig at the VF was his first in New York ever even if he had been all over Europe before. If for your taste Parker plays too much, just don't go but why the need to put it down?

I don't believe I've been putting him or his playing down here, have I? (though, admittedly, I'm not his biggest fan). I don't think he's very imaginative in scheduling his festival but, as you say, that's his business. As I said, I feel the same way about other presumptively new music festivals (jazz and otherwise) as well.

Cool. These reasons are no different than those for wich I like a lot of jazz musicians including many playing at the VF.

Fine, no argument here.

[walto]

I don't think, FWIW, that W. Parker limits himself to playing with any particular "downtown coterie." I think, in fact, there are very few musicians who put out CDs with as diverse a batch of colleagues. His "brother" Evan is one, of course.

There are so many releases each year by these Parkers, that I sometimes wonder if there's any danger of them turning into Oates and Updike!

[Frisco]

Well, you guys who continually run down Parker and the whole Vision Fest know where I stand. I've been in the middle of too many discussions already to rehash my views. I do respect your opinions. But I do rest assured in knowing that people do come from a greater distance than my 600 miles to attend. In fact there are lovers of this music who continually come in from all over the world. And that's one thing that makes it so special for me. It's like a celebration of life, music, friendship, all in a very friendly and peaceful atmosphere. BTW, Paul, I'm not that bored here, but I did drive from Detroit to Buffalo to here the group that started this whole thread.

And, (here I go...) you should've caught the set by Billy Bang, Jin Hi KIm, and Parker last year!!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely beautiful.

Oh, for anyone interested, even though considering my tastes in this music, some of you probably wouldn't like my radio program, but... Next Tuesday from 7-10pm EST, I'll be doing a three hour program on the music of Barry Guy. I have a thing about bass players, I guess. It's on WHFR-FM, broadcasting on the net:
http://whfr.fm

[Derek Taylor]

I’m still trying to get my mind around how “the usual suspects, playing the same old same old” equates to “stupor inducing mediocrity.”

Vision has its flaws & can be insular as far as scheduling, but I’ve enjoyed myself each of the four times I’ve attended.

I do agree wholeheartedly with Paul B’s assessment of Avram Fefer though, he’s a reed player to watch out for fer sure.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Derek Taylor
I do agree wholeheartedly with Paul B’s assessment of Avram Fefer though, he’s a reed player to watch out for fer sure.

Indeed. He was really burning with a Brazilian group at Tonic a couple of months ago.

[Jonny Miner]

Brian Olewnick wrote: "I've no doubt that musicians represented at VF play with younger artists on various occasions. But you'd be hard pressed to get that impression from the line-up at VF, which is what we're talking about. Here's an idea: Why doesn't Parker, in all due humility, sit out the fest for a year, along with other regulars and turn it over to young, creative musicians who could use such a showcase? If the audience is as into the music as they ought to be, it shouldn't matter that there are no "stars" playing."

...I think that you identify a big part of the problem--not only are there few young players in this tradition, but they sorely lack the support of concert-goers who only want to see the big names. I can be guilty of this at times, myself. Still, Matt Lavelle and Ras Moshe, two younger players, are ALWAYS around, listening, playing, putting out records, etc. These guys work
hard, and I for one was very happy to see that Lavelle is now a part of Parker's Lil Huey ensemble.

Still, as you note, no one would fly in to hear Moshe's "Music Now" group, or Lavelle's "Trumpet Nemisis" ensemble, though perhaps they should. These guys (and Steve Swell, and Tatsuya Nakatani, and more...) are growing by leaps and bounds, and a little support right now could mean a world of difference, progression, and change. They've been paying their dues, and I think that the old guard is taking notice, offering guidance, and slowly incorporating them.

I imagine the festival's survival rests on the presence of big names. What that means is, different people who've never seen the veterens play come in every year, the devoted stick around for more of what they love, and the casual fan gets more and more tired of it. I've always thought of it as a place where a certain kind of player and fan convenes every year, and the collaborative spirit of this sort of creative music is concentrated for a short time. I don't see anything wrong with that. You can't force diversity on a scene that's barely surviving.

[Nate Dorward]

Ehhh, Lavelle & Moshe seem OKish but I thought ML's one disc under his own name (Handling the Moment) pretty flat & callow. Maybe give him time? I'm sure he sounds a bit better as part of someone else's band like the Little Huey group. Moshe I've only heard on that CD & on a pretty tedious disc by a band called Izititiz. Neither was a very inspiring introduction.

I'm entirely agnostic concerning the whole epic debate about the Vision Fest, as I've never attended.

[Brian Olewnick]

Johnny, as you're doing your research on your Loft Jazz thesis, check out the ages of the players. Many of the central musicians were in their early to mid 20s during the last half of the 70s (Chico Freeman, Anthony Davis, James Newton, David Murray, Gerry Hemingway, George Lewis, etc.) and most of the AACM/BAG contingent were in their 30s. These guys were regularly performing as leaders as well as playing in supporting roles with their (slight) elders and were major forces on the scene. For as long as I can remember, Muhal's bands (from small to large) have included a hefty percentage of young, lesser known talents. I'm not so much criticizing the VF line-up as simply pointing out a demographic fact and adding my contention that a healthy scene would, by definition, include a wide range in the age of its participants. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I find that this lack of new blood eventually leads to an arid, anemic situation.

[Uli]

Originally posted by Brian Olewnick
Your mileage may vary, of course, but I find that this lack of new blood eventually leads to an arid, anemic situation.

For my mileage, worries about the future are a bit strange if comiming from somebody who uses "too jazzy" in the present.

[Jonny Miner]

Nate - Give 'em time was all I was saying. Last night Moshe played the second set with Muntu, and his contributions were valuable, indeed. Since I first heard Lavelle (a little over a year ago), his playing, to my simple ears, seems to have grown by leaps and bounds. Will good recordings be coming? I hope so...

Brian - I fully, fully agree. When I said "there few young players in this tradition," what I meant was that there are currently few young players playing this music, and that that is a problem. The Vision Festival does seem to privilege older players. Mileage may vary, but I do agree that my last post may betray some desperate optimism. (By they way, I can't wait to talk to you more in-depth when this semester ends...)