civilian deaths in iraq

[HenryMc]

I dont know if it grabbed many column inches in the states but just the other day some poor marine killed 7 women and children in a bus /van because they didn't stop at a checkpoint.

OK I know all about the suicide bombers and the fear they create but we in the west have to remember that the coalition of the willing are being painted negatively in muslim circles. Why didn't they stop? A muslim friend explained to me that these women would have been told (and may have thought ) that they would be raped by the soldiers. Don't forget rape in war is a kind of tradition in some parts of the world.

When Bush said on the Tube that the coalition was 'aiming for the hearts and minds of the iraqi people' I, for one, didn't think he meant it literally (with machine gun fire)

The result:
. 7 dead women and children
. a couple of marines who will have to live with the knowledge that they killed unarmed women and children
. reiterating to the arab world that it's really about oil baby, people don't count despite the rhetoric.


Peace Brothers and Sisters

[patricia]

Henry, the skepticism of the ordinary people is understandable. As for rape being common, as a result of war in some countries, it's common in almost every war I've ever read about. So much so, that that particular indignity is, quite often, not even thought of as worth mentioning. There are no countries, including the Western ones, who have not been guilty of that "spoil" of war. So, it's not surprising that a van of women and children may be reluctant to stop, given the American soldiers' uniforms and the fear which must have driven the women and children to flee their own homes. True tragedy, in a lot of ways.

Somehow it seems doubtful that Henry Mc has ever been in any military let alone under wartime conditions.

In a wartime situation, particularly one in which partisan guerrillas wear civilian clothing, when challenged at a check point, you stop or you get blown away. It is not optional.

With the best of intentions civilian casualties like "friendly fire" casualties of ones own will never be totally avoidable in wartime.
An expression which has been around for some time now, "shit happens", or the "bad things can happen to good people" says it all. In times past some military thinking did not totally worry about civilians, but always was concerned about "friendly fire". If it were totally avoidable, "f f" would not exist. Shit happens. Sorry, it is not cynicism, but life is not ideal.