Where does the word "Christmas" come from?

NYC schools ban Nativity scenes but allow Jewish, Islamic symbols

By The Associated Press

12.11.02

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NEW YORK — New York is discriminating against Christian students by allowing Islamic and Jewish holiday symbols to be displayed in public schools while banning Nativity creches, a Catholic organization suing the city charged yesterday.

"All we're asking for the city of New York to do is to treat Catholics the same way they do Jews and Muslims," said William Donohue, president of the Catholic League. "This is nothing but pure, unadulterated religious discrimination."

The Thomas More Law Center argues in the lawsuit that the Department of Education holiday policy is unconstitutional because it permits Hanukkah menorahs and the Islamic star and crescent as secular symbols but prohibits scenes of Jesus' birth in a manger as religious.

The lawsuit, filed on Dec. 9 in Brooklyn federal court, was brought on behalf of Andrea Skoros, a Catholic League member who has two sons at the Edith K. Bergtraum School in Queens. It lists the department, schools Chancellor Joel Klein and principal Sonya Lupion as defendants.

The department's policy "endorses and promotes the religions of Judaism and Islam, conveys the impermissible message of disapproval of Christianity and coerces students, including the two minor sons of (the plaintiff), to accept the Jewish and Islamic religions," the lawsuit claims.

The law center, a nonprofit organization dedicated to defending and promoting the religious freedom of Christians, is seeking a court injunction against the policy and nominal damages of $1 or more, which would allow it to recover court costs and legal fees.

Richard Thompson, lead counsel for the Ann Arbor, Mich.-based law center, said the department issued a memo encouraging teachers to take to school religious symbols that represent the Islamic and Jewish religions but made no mention of Christian symbols.

The policy does allow Christmas trees, which are considered secular, Thompson said.

The education department declined to comment on the lawsuit.

But spokeswoman Margie Feinberg said the school's policy adhered to the constitutional requirement of separation of church and state.

Thompson said the menorahs and displays of the star and crescent are religious in nature and not secular, as education officials contend.

"The specific policy allows public schools in the city of New York to put on religious symbols of other religions but specifically refuses to allow Christians to put on and display a Nativity scene," he said.

Donohue said he wanted the schools to display all religious symbols.

"The intolerant way to resolve it is to ban everybody equally," he said. "I want the tolerant way, which is to allow Catholics to compete with Muslims and Jews and have our religious symbols in there for a short period of time."

Meanwhile, in the nearby suburb of Yonkers, N.Y., decorations specific to one holiday — even nonreligious ones like Christmas trees — have been banned from public schools.

Interim Superintendent Angelo Petrone directed officials last week to remove all decorations that go beyond a generic "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings." That included Hanukkah menorahs as well as Christmas trees.

Holiday assemblies featuring religious songs, poems and reports on holidays will still be permitted, said district spokesman Eric Schoen.

He said Petrone, who was principal at Yonkers Middle-High School until last month, had required all decorations there to be religion-neutral and when he became interim superintendent, he extended the order to the entire Yonkers school district.

Marla Hurban, a member of the Yonkers PTA Council, said teachers scrapped lesson plans involving holiday decorations and took down bulletin boards loaded with children's artwork.

The First Amendment permits public schools to teach about world religions as long as one religion is not promoted above others. Charles Haynes, a senior scholar at the First Amendment Center in Arlington, Va., said overreactions "come out of confusion about what the First Amendment requires and the refusal by schools to address religion properly throughout the school year."

Amanda Pendleton, who has a daughter in fifth grade, told The Journal News that when word of the order began to spread, "Anybody who heard it thought it was a joke at first; they couldn't believe it. Then they had to literally tear everything off the walls."


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How outrageously over sensitive have Americans become to anything associated with Christianity? Lighten up people.......................

[tippy]

jews and muslims are ruining the world...give me my baby jesus

[Tom Storer]

Tippy, you failed to put up neon signs indicating that your post was a sarcastic joke. Don your asbestos suit!

[BFrank]

Yeah, Scott - Lighten up!!

[mke]

Holidays are supposed to be fun, time for lights and decoration, rather than enforced drabness.

Why not simply celebrate the holidays of all the various cultures and nationalities present in the school? It seems to me an interesting opportunity for learning about other traditions.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by mke
Holidays are supposed to be fun, time for lights and decoration, rather than enforced drabness.

Why not simply celebrate the holidays of all the various cultures and nationalities present in the school? It seems to me an interesting opportunity for learning about other traditions.

There you go again, Mwanjii, being reasonable.

[Gary Sisco]

I treat them all equally by celebrating none of them.

[mke]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
I treat them all equally by celebrating none of them.

I'm not big on holidays myself, but forcing teachers to take the childrens' artwork off the walls is incredibly stupid.

[tippy]

oops Tom, thanks for your assistance.

I grew up in a 99.9% pure Mormon community and I don't remember having religious stuff at school. But I do remember one of the two Jewish kids in our school, bringing a Menorah to school in 4th grade and telling us about Hannukah. I thought it was interesting and it didn't test my 9-year old faith.

It seems to me that religion should stay at home. Then again, maybe in the current climate it might help to expose kids to other religions in the interest of tolerance. But if that's the case then theology should be taught as a full-blown subject, shouldn't it? Religious symbols such as crosses or stars, etc. seem more generic to me than having a nativity scene. Should baby Jesus be displayed around a bunch of snot-nosed kids anyway? I am so confident in my Christian superiority that I am not threatened by other people's religious stuff anyway.

How is it that the concept of God can breed so much hate?

[Gary Sisco]

Religion as a subject of study, like any other subject, is one thing. I happen to be involved in a (now) years' long study of it, myself, that began in the summer of 2001. Promotion of religious ideas or values, is another thing altogether. Kids can celebrate Christmas or anything they like ... at home. What's the problem with that?

I used to be hugely unpopular at work where the pc crowd insisted on having a Christmas party every year while also insisting on calling it a "holiday party," as if that changed anything. What holiday is it? I used to ask. How come we do all of the things that people do at Christmas parties, and at the same time of year, but yet it's not a Christmas party? Seems like bullshit to me. Why don't we have our "holiday party" in March or August or whenever? Shit like that drives me up a wall. If you're going to have a Christmas party, call it one, for Christ's sake. (Pun intended.) Not calling it one won't change the fact that it is one. Duh.

I tell people the same thing when they insist that they only want me to participate in a family gathering because it's nice to get the family together, all in one place, etc. I tell them, well, obviously I can't object to getting the family together to celebrate our familyness, so, how about we do it, say, May 12th? For some reason they don't want to do it on May 12th but on December 25th or thereabouts (which has nothing whatsoever to do with Yeshua Ben Joseph, if there was one, but they don't seem to care about that part). Too much pretending. Not enough honesty. It's the pretending to which I object the most.

[Uli]

I take my eggnog & my cookies as they come.

[tippy]

I'm no longer religious but I like having a time of year when people get together and celebrate. I've been to a bunch of holiday/Christmas parties that weren't at all religious. I don't think it's hypocritical. In fact a party atmosphere and the birth of Christ have never mingled in my mind. Religious faith, for me, has to do with devoutness. I have to admit that having been raised in a strict religion has demystified the whole thing for me so if Christmas had not always been a part of my life, I could see how I might object to such celebrations in name. But if you look at the thing itself I don't see what is reprehensible. Very little of Christmas celebrated outside of church has anything to do with the birth of Christ. And in fact, isn't Christmas--or at least the time of year that we celebrate it--mingled with pagan festivals?

[cookie]

Solstice, babeee. Call it what you will and attribute it to the deities of your choice, but it's a fact and I celebrate it winter or summer! Celebrate the winter with food and music; celebrate the summer with dancing and nakedness.

Shoot, I'm just always looking for an excuse to party.

I attribute the late fall/December holidaze to the fact that it's getting darker and colder and it's a good time to huddle up with your loved ones and share the fat and the wealth.

[Gary Sisco]

What's wrong with the equinox?

[bluenoter]

(This post is about in-school celebrations of religious holidays, not about celebrations that take place somewhere other than in schools.)

Originally posted by mke
Why not simply celebrate the holidays of all the various cultures and nationalities present in the school?

1. What would one do--poll all the kids to find out what culture and nationality they were?

2. . . . And then poll all the kids to find out what religion they were, since it's religious celebrations that are in question, and there's not necessarily a correlation between culture and nationality on one hand and religion on the other?

3. . . . And then repeat the poll frequently to make sure that the categories represented hadn't changed?

4. The atheist kids and perhaps agnostic kids may not celebrate any winter solstice holiday. Why should any number of religious holidays be imposed on them in school?

No, that's what separation of church and state is for.

[cookie]

I'm not a *stone* pagan, Gary, but yeah, equinoxes are cool too. The Spring signals planting and the Fall signals harvest. Too much work to spend much time partying. The spring celebration in my family was May Day which was celebrated with flowers and candy and the maypole dance at school (my God! The school engaged in pagan ritual!!!!). At the fall, it seemed the celebrations took the form of community dinners. But yeah, the solstices mark the extremes.

[Tom Storer]

Non-religious people and many non-Christians of other faiths do their celebrating on or around Christmas because of tradition, plain and simple. It's a holiday, most people aren't at work. Also it's the same time religious Christians do their partying, and since these groups do often mix, it's convenient to be able to all party together. Personally I have nothing against Christians and am willing to party at the same time they do.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Tom Storer
Non-religious people and many non-Christians of other faiths do their celebrating on or around Christmas because of tradition, plain and simple.

Since it's a tradition (from what little I know) that predates Christianity...

[clinthopson]

Originally posted by tippy
jews and muslims are ruining the world...give me my baby jesus

You poor benighted fools with all your superstitions.

You should all acknowledge the true Mistress of the Universe, the Volcano Goddess, and abandon your primitive beliefs.

On Dec. 25 we will sacrifice the goat and the iguana in her honor.

Dress is semi-formal.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
I treat them all equally by celebrating none of them.

I treat them equally by celebrating all of them. Any excuse to eat and drink.............................

[Monte Smith]

I got an idea: how about not having any laws respecting the establishment of religion? No pro- laws, no con- laws. Just let it all hang out in regards to metaphysics, like the Constitution says.

[mke]

Originally posted by bluenoter
(This post is about in-school celebrations of religious holidays, not about celebrations that take place somewhere other than in schools.) 1. What would one do--poll all the kids to find out what culture and nationality they were?

2. . . . And then poll all the kids to find out what religion they were, since it's religious celebrations that are in question, and there's not necessarily a correlation between culture and nationality on one hand and religion on the other?

3. . . . And then repeat the poll frequently to make sure that the categories represented hadn't changed?

4. The atheist kids and perhaps agnostic kids may not celebrate any winter solstice holiday. Why should any number of religious holidays be imposed on them in school?

No, that's what separation of church and state is for.

There would be no need to poll anybody, as teachers would probably know the kids already. I see these holiday things mainly as a way for the kids (we're talking primary school, right?) to have fun and decorate their school. If cutting out a Santa or whatever is "imposing religion," I don't know what to say. Personally, I think it would be cool for some kid to come up and say "Where I'm from we do this for Christmas" and integrate that into the decorations. I guess the halls and class-rooms should never be decorated in any fashion (easter, Hallowe'en and any other non-religious theme is probably objectionable to somebody).

Originally posted by Monte Smith
I got an idea: how about not having any laws respecting the establishment of religion? No pro- laws, no con- laws. Just let it all hang out in regards to metaphysics, like the Constitution says.

Right on MKE!

[tippy]

It's funny how it's okay for all kids to celebrate the massacre of St. Valentine.

[mke]

Originally posted by Scott Dolan
Right on MKE!

YEAH!!!!! Now we're groovin!!!!!!

[GregM]

Another Christmas Song, by Jethro Tull

Once in Royal David's City stood a lonely cattle shed,
where a mother held her baby.
You'd do well to remember the things He later said.
When you're stuffing yourselves at the Christmas parties,
you'll just laugh when I tell you to take a running jump.
You're missing the point I'm sure does not need making
that Christmas spirit is not what you drink.

So how can you laugh when your own mother's hungry,
and how can you smile when the reasons for smiling are wrong?
And if I just messed up your thoughtless pleasures,
remember, if you wish, this is just a Christmas song.

(Hey! Santa! Pass us that bottle, will you?)

[Al in NYC]

We always celebrated "lapsed catholic socialist athiest Christmas" around my family as a matter of fine Irish-American tradition. Followed by a very short and bleary Boxing Day.

I'd take this all more seriously if it didn't come from Tom Monaghan's (founder of Dominos Pizza) unaccredited nutty reactionary pre-Vatican II Catholic law school.

[GoodSpeak]

Origin of Christmas - The Traditions and Controversies

For today's Christian, the Origin of Christmas is, and should be, the birth of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible. Nothing more, nothing less. However, most of what we witness on December 25th each year has absolutely nothing to do with that blessed day (probably in late summer or early fall) about 2,000 years ago. In fact, most of the customs and traditions of Christmas actually pre-date the birth of Jesus, and many of them are downright deceptive in their meaning and origin. Here are a few examples:

The date of December 25th probably originated with the ancient "birthday" of the son-god, Mithra, a pagan deity whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman Empire during the first few centuries A.D. Mithra was related to the Semitic sun-god, Shamash, and his worship spread throughout Asia to Europe where he was called Deus Sol Invictus Mithras. Rome was well-known for absorbing the pagan religions and rituals of its widespread empire. As such, Rome converted this pagan legacy to a celebration of the god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter solstice period. The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, singing and downright debauchery, as the priests of Saturn carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession throughout the Roman temples.

Variations of this pagan holiday flourished throughout the first few centuries after Jesus Christ, but it probably wasn't until 336 AD that Emperor Constantine officially converted this pagan tradition into the "Christian" holiday of Christmas. The word "Christmas" is a combination of the words "Christ" and "Mass." The word "Mass" means death and was coined originally by the Roman Catholic Church. The ritual of the Mass involves the death of Christ, and the distribution of the "Host", a word taken from the Latin word "hostiall," meaning victim. In short, Christmas is a Roman Catholic word of Roman Empire origin.


Source: www.Origin-of-Christmas.com