I Need Detroit Recommendations/Advice

[jazzy mary]

Next week I have to go to Southfield, Michigan for work. But it's near Detroit. I'll be in Southfield all week but I was wondering if I should stay the weekend and check out Detroit. I've never been there and I figure there must be *something* to do there. After all, Motown started there. Can anyone recommend a really good hotel? Clubs, things to see, everything and anything. Don't forget the Motor City!! Thanks all.

[clinthopson]

Jazzita,

I hate to rain on your parade, but the Motor City is a true loser of a town. All the great musicians have split, Motown is now headquartered elsewhere, the Tigers and Lions suck. Greektown is about it and it's no where as good as Chicago's.

OTOH, London, ONT, is one swingin" town.

[jazzy mary]

Yes, yes, I know all that but I would just have a day or so and it would be interesting to see where Motown *was*--I've seen "Only the Strong Survive". And the Detroit Art Museum looks pretty cool.

Michael Schumann, surely you can make some suggestions?

[Chris D]

Paging Dr. Nagel. Come in, Dr. Nagel.

[Enforcer]

Clint,

Thanks a f**king lot.

Mary,

There is a lot to see, but if you're only there for a short while you're probably going to want to make the list short. The Detroit Institute of Arts is a nice stop. There are constant renovations going on, but it's in pretty good shape right now. The Diego Rivera murals alone are worth the price of admission. Once you get here, you'll have no problem finding directions. It's right down on Woodward (the first paved highway in the United States), near Wayne State University. The Detroit Science Center is right across the way, and the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History is just a walk away, too. That's all right down near Warren and Woodward, so you could see a lot in a short time.

Moving outward, there's a load of other stuff in the city and surrounding areas that you could try and catch. Let me list some of them for you:

The Henry Ford (Greenfield Village and Henry Ford Museum) is a great attraction. The Henry Ford Museum is just awesome. We're talking the city of Dearborn here, but man... this would be worth the trip (less than an hour outside Detroit), if you ask me. So much to see, so much history. Even if you're not a car freak like me, it's amazing.

The Detroit Zoo is pretty cool. Not like San Diego or anything, but with some new attractions (the Polar Bear exhibit is really cool) it's fun.

The Edsel and Eleanor Ford House is a great way to spend a few hours. This family was simply amazing, and so progressive. The house is staggering to see from the inside out. Definite an "A" grade to this place. You're talking about taking a guided tour here.

The Motown Historical Museum is, of course, a very popular attraction. I don't need to tell you what it's all about, I'm sure...

As for accomodations, the Atheneum is right down by Greektown. Not sure about the rates, though. Restaurants? Clubs? Hotels? There's a lot. Greektown has some good food and you're right by the casinos, too. But for entertainment, I would instead refer you to the premier source of info the Metro Times. It's a free, weekly rag that has a useful website. Here's the link: Detroit Info

One recommendation I would personally make is Buddy's Pizza down on 6 Mile and Conant. This is my favorite pizza place in the area. There are Buddy's all over Michigan now, but this is the original. It used to be a blind pig back during prohibition. Don't expect glorious atmosphere, but expect a really good slice of pizza!

If you're a hockey fan (everyone here is, but you're probably not), you could hang out at Hockeytown Cafe, or head out of the city and check out Hockeytown Authentics, where you can buy game worn merchandise for the hockey fan in your life. Monday night, Ray Whitney will be signing autographs for free, as long as you donate a new smoke detector (which will be given to underprivileged children's homes). And if you have enough spare change, you can try and scalp some tickets to a Red Wings game at the Joe Louis Arena.

If you're in Southfield, you'll be near Birmingham, which is an entity unto itself. Cranbrook (a private school) has a science center and arts facility that is pretty interesting. Oh, and you can catch a glimpse of goalie Dominik Hasek (hockey again) at his downtown Birmingham activewear store, Dominator. Sorry about the hockey stuff, it's just that we live and breath it down here.

Be careful where you travel, though. Especially at night, if you find yourself in the wrong part of the East Side, you're in a really bad place. Detroit wasn't the Morgan Quitno World's Most Dangerous City for three years straight for nothing.

I hope you enjoy your trip!

Larry

[Al in NYC]

Well, I grew up there, and my family still lives there. Detroit is indeed a town whose charms may be quite elusive to out-of-towners at first glance, but there are things there that are worth seeing, and the area itself is something of a (hard) lesson in American sociology. There are 4 big things to keep in mind in the Detroit area: 1) there is an enormous gulf (although this has lessened just a bit in recent years) between the city itself and its suburbs, with people in one living lives completely apart from those in the other. 2) Detroit went from being the city with the highest average income in the country around 1950 to the city with the lowest by 1980, and the city itself remains quite poor. 3) For rather obvious reasons this is the land of the auto par excellence, and nobody walks ANYWHERE (my friends and relatives from Detroit are always a bit shocked when they come to NYC and are made to walk more than 2 blocks...). So if you're not renting a car people may have a bit of trouble trying to tell you how to get anywhere, as they've never gone anywhere themselves without one. 4) Detroit is, in many way, America's northernmost southern city, so remember to be friendly and polite and most people will be so back to you.

Now, on to Mary's real questions: hotels in downtown Detroit are not great, since outside of convention and some business travellers very few tourists come there. The hotel in the city that people I know have liked best is the Atheneum near Greektown. It's certainly not cheap, but folks usually like it a bit better than the hermetically sealed one in the Renaissance Center (whatever it's called now) or the somewhat delapidated Pontchartrain.

The Motown Museum stands on West Grand Boulevard in the original houses out of which the company operated for many years. It's a cute, kinda homespun, operation, but the folks who run it are very nice, and it is fun to see the little studio in which all of those hits were recorded, and the rather bizarre recreation of Barry Gordy's early '60's apartment.

The Detroit Institute of Arts is a mile or 2 north of downtown and is where I spent some of the better days of my youth. It is indeed one of America's finer collections, dating back to the days when the city was very wealthy. In recent years sections of the large museum have been closed on a rotating basis due to a lack of funds, but whatever's open is certainly worth seeing. Not to be missed is the massive Rivera mural in the center court, which is one of the things that most strongly says "Detroit" to me. My grandfather was working at Rouge when he did the sketches, and his likeness shows up in the engine block line (although grandpa actually worked mostly in the foundry). Unfortunately, the truly fine American collection (featuring a small, but stunning, Sargent, and one of Whistler's most famous works) is closed for renovation right now, and many of the works on tour in Europe. But the museum has fine holdings in classic European painting, especially Flemish/Dutch work, and a small but quite good modern collection. One of the features of the museum is its absolutely wonderful African collection.

The area around the DIA, which is called the "Cultural Center," is one of my favorite parts of the city, with the main library (another haunt of my youth), the Detroit Historical Museum (surprisingly interesting), the African-American History Museum, the Science Center, and Detroit's main college, Wayne State University. Although it may seem a bit bleak to non-Detroiters (especially during the winter) this is as close as the City of Detroit gets to a happenin' hip bohemian area.

Contrary to what some may say, there is indeed still jazz played in Detroit. Often damn good jazz. Due to the economics of the area few national acts come to the area (and, if they do, they go to Ann Arbor). But there are a number of small local bars and clubs that do have strong local talent regularly, although they're spread out all over the metropolitan area. I'm sure Larry and others are quite a bit more up on the current local scene, but if you pick up the free weekly Metro Times you should be able to find some jazz listings there. Close to downtown I think that Burt's in the Eastern Market area still has jazz all the time, and, of course, there's America's oldest jazz club, Baker's Keyboard Lounge, which is out on Livernois and 8 Mile (actually not too far from Southfield). Baker's is worth seeing if only for its museum of '50's high style decor.

There, all that and I didn't even mention the casinos, or sports, which are arguably the 2 biggest things going for most Detroiters. I think you should definitely go, and see and experience soulful Detroit for yourself. And remember: it gets COLD there... bring warm clothes.

[Al in NYC]

I didn't see Larry's post before posting mine, but as you can see we're on somewhat the same wavelength (well, save for the hockey fanaticism, and as a lifelong Eastsider I'm a bit peeved about his characterization of my part of town -- although I can't wholly disagree with it).

I very much agree with him about the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village, which is in many ways America's original theme park. Assembled by that master of fun himself, Henry Ford, the theme here is American history, particularly as it relates to practical innovation. Even though it's out in Dearborn a long ways from the center of the city, and has an expensive admission charge, I would definitely say its worth it. The Museum is a treasure trove of collections of everything from giant locomotives to needles, and the Village is an outstanding collection of some of America's most historic buildings, which were saved and moved here before historic preservation became popular.

It's too bad you aren't coming in the summer when there is usually something going on in our Isamu Noguchi-designed Hart Plaza on the river downtown (right behind Joe Louis's fist...). In the winter there's ice skating there, but otherwise the place is a lot like a concrete tundra.

mmmmm... Buddy's.... ...that and a Lafayette Coney Island and I'm home man.

[MRS]

I think I alluded to it in another thread perhaps, but one of my favorite things to do is dig some of the Eastern European enclaves. . .there are a few beautiful Armenian churches in and around Southfield in particular. Much of the food/victuallers in these parts of town is wonderful as well. Al in NYC or Larry are far better guides than I. Boston-Edison has some great turn-of-the-century homes.

[Enforcer]

Originally posted by Al in NYC
Well, I didn't see Larry's post before posting mine, but as you can see we're on somewhat the same wavelength (well, save for the hockey fanaticism, and as a lifelong Eastsider I'm a bit peeved about his representation of my part of town -- although I can't wholly disagree with it).

I very much agree with him about the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village, which is in many ways America's original theme park. Assembled by that master of fun himself, Henry Ford, the theme here is American history, particularly as it relates to practical innovation. Even though it is a long ways from the center of the city, and has an expensive admission charge, I would definitely say its worth it.

It's too bad you aren't coming in the summer when there is usually something going on in our Isamu Noguchi-designed Hart Plaza on the river downtown (right behind Joe Louis's fist...). In the winter there's ice skating there, but otherwise the place is a lot like a concrete tundra.

mmmmm... Buddy's.... ...that and a Lafayette Coney Island and I'm home man.

Al, I'm sorry! I'm an Eastsider too, though!

I forgot Lafayette Coney. How could I forget Lafayette Coney? So much to mention, so little time. Also, one of the top attractions in Detroit is free. All you have to do is take a ride down Woodward, preferably after dark, and look around you at the Steaming Manhole Covers. I guess when the Detroit music scene exploded in London a couple of years ago (thanks largely to the success of the White Stripes), a Detroit-themed restaurant was opened that features an appetizer called the Steaming Manhole Covers. Well, I've never sampled the dish, but the real thing is like something out of Blade Runner, or some other apocalyptic piece of science fiction. Don't worry, they won't hurt you. But they create a really eerie atmosphere, especially against the backdrop of some sadly decaying areas surrounding the street.

As for Hart Plaza, you just missed by a little over a month the Detroit Jazz Festival. It's North America's largest free (as in no charge) jazz festival, and I go every year. In fact, Al, didn't you come back the year Elvin's band was featured? 3 or 4 years ago now, I guess. I think we discussed it a while back.

Larry

[jazzy mary]

Thanks guys!!! I knew you all would come through for me!! Does it make more sense for me to stay in the Birmingham area? I won't have a car so I'd be walking or taking taxis everywhere. if I can't get a room at the Antheneum should I do the Omni or another hotel? What about the Ritz-Carlton in Dearborn? I'm not sure of the geography. I'd definately would want to do the "arts-y" part of town. Where, hotel wise, would it be best for me to be?

[Enforcer]

Birmingham is like Detroit's polar opposite. Birmingham is one of the wealthiest cities in the United States. The problem is that public transportation in Detroit sucks. You can get a taxi, sure. But downtown, you're stuck with the People Mover. The People Mover will stop at some main points of interest, but it won't get you very far.

Outside of the Atheneum, there's not much in terms of accommodations downtown. I really don't know what to tell you, Mary. If you're used to a big, downtown city (I don't know where you live), you might not mind the Ponchartrain or Ren Cen hotel. If not, then you'll probably want to go north and find a ride into the city.

Larry

[Enforcer]

Originally posted by Larry Nagel
If you're used to a big, downtown city (I don't know where you live)

I just read "Brooklyn" in your profile. You should be fine

Larry

[Al in NYC]

Mary, Birmingham and Dearborn are nice towns and all, but if you would like to experience the "real" Detroit, and especially if you'd like to go to the DIA, Motown Museum, etc., I would definitely recommend staying somewhere in downtown Detroit itself. Everything in Detroit is VERY spread out, and I shudder to think what a cab ride from, say, Birmingham would cost. Public transportation, as Larry indicates, while it exists, is not really an option in the suburbs since very few people (or very few people who count) use it and it is therefore highly unreliable.

Is the Omni you're talking about the one in the Millender Center (on Jefferson Ave.)? If so, it should be OK.

You should also be aware that even if you stay downtown you will have to cab it or (shudder) take the good ol' Woodward bus up to the Cultural Center. I don't know of any hotels anywhere near there (at least not any without hourly rates). While cabs should be easy enough to come by down by the hotels, remember to take down the phone number of the big cab companies (Checker being the big one as I remember), as street-hailing cabs is not always practical (or smart) in Detroit, and most cabs are called.

OK Larry... enough defense of my East Side pride then...

I've been to jazz festival almost every year. Since it's right near my birthday, and our always big family holiday of Labor Day (yup, I'm from one of those families), its become something of an annual family event for us. Saw Greg Osby, James Moody, Ron Carter, and Marcus with Mulgrew Miller last year.

[jazzy mary]

Sounds like I should try the Antheneum. I do live in Brooklyn now, I work in Manhattan and I am used to big cities but I'll be traveling by myself. So, it'll be "I'm all alone in this big city---of Detroit, so please have some pity, pity on me, I'm just a lonesome babe in the woods".

The Antheneum is kindof mad expensive but they'll prob. be nice and help me out there.

[Enforcer]

That would put you right down in Greektown, which means you would have to try Pizza Papalis. Yeah, another pizza place, but trust me: This place is phenomenal! If you like Mexican, there's also Xolchimilco's in Mexican Town, on Bagley. Really good, and not too expensive, either. Haven't been there in a few years, reminds me I probably should go soon.

Larry

[Al in NYC]

Hmmmm... sorry, edited the post above (#13) before I saw that you had posted again.

Detroit is NOT a big city like NYC or any east coast city. It's more like a collection of houses and areas strung together by long rather empty streets and freeways. It's sort of like LA without the ocean, the sun, the mountains, the glamour, or the healthy and diverse economy. I've always found NYC rather comforting and safe-feeling in comparison to my hometown.

2 very interesting things you will note in downtown Detroit are the almost total lack of stores and shopping, and the improbably wide streets, like Manhattan avenues, that were built for an economy that no longer exists and are mostly empty of traffic much of the time.

In addition to everything else, due to being on the wrong side of the Great Lakes, Detroit is America's LEAST sunny city.

[Enforcer]

Most cities have a unique character about them, but Detroit stands in a category all its own. I think "abandonment" is the emotion it conjures up for me, above all else. Like Al says, there is a legacy of what "once was" here that is sad for me. The architecture is beautiful, but the homes have been neglected, windows smashed, black soot from fires streaking the walls. It's like a bomb dropped 30 years ago and the city was populated by the survivors, but the framework of the economy was never rebuilt. You get a sense of seeing the remnants of a mass exodus, which is essentially what happened, in fact.

There are some glorious monuments, though. And hopefully some of the bold investors who have put their money in the city will help to regenerate the economy. I'm certainly more optimistic today than I have been in quite a while. But there is a *lot* to do.

Larry

[Enforcer]

Don't forget to stop at one of the licensed stores and buy some products from Made In Detroit. This stuff is hot all over the place, and it's hard to come by. The Detroit Electronic Music Festival is huge, and if you wear one of these shirts or jackets, you'll get compliments from people everywhere. Techno music's roots are in Detroit, and it's a huge underground scene in and around the city.

Hamtramck is surrounded in its entirety by Detroit, and it's a very hip college town right now. I know we've given you 3 weeks worth of things to see in one day, but it's a neat area to get a cup of joe at a hip coffee house like Urban Break, or catch a garage band.

Rambling endlessly,
Larry

[Al in NYC]

Originally posted by Larry Nagel
Most cities have a unique character about them, but Detroit stands in a category all its own. I think "abandonment" is the emotion it conjures up for me, above all else. Like Al says, there is a legacy of what "once was" here that is sad for me. The architecture is beautiful, but the homes have been neglected, windows smashed, black soot from fires streaking the walls. It's like a bomb dropped 30 years ago and the city was populated by the survivors, but the framework of the economy was never rebuilt. You get a sense of seeing the remnants of a mass exodus, which is essentially what happened, in fact.

All true. In fact, one of the salient features of most Detroit get-togethers is the discussion of neighborhoods, homes, businesses, places and things that aren't there anymore. My wife, who grew up shuttling between NYC and Tokyo, but has now been totally immersed in Detroitiana, calls this "the Detroit 'usetabe' conversation."

Hamtramck is surrounded in its entirety by Detroit, and it's a very hip college town right now. I know we've given you 3 weeks worth of things to see in one day, but it's a neat area to get a cup of joe at a hip coffee house like Urban Break, or catch a garage band.

Not too mention fine Polish cuisine...

[Enforcer]

The best Polish food!

I'm pretty sure we already had this conversation on another thread, but Hamtramck has been getting some national attention for its attractions. It is currently the most ethnically diverse city in the United States. I can't remember the number, but I think it was something like 50 nationalities that are represented by the citizenship of Hamtramck. Its club scene really took off a few years ago. Motor Lounge is no more, but it was ranked the best nightclub in the *country* a couple of years ago by some trendy magazine. This year, Hamtramck was voted #2 rock and roll city in the country in another publication.

That may all be bullsh**, but the point is that the good press is getting people to come out and check out the scene, which is good for the economy. Of course, if you eat a Paczki from anywhere but a bakery in Hamtramck on Fat Tuesday, then you haven't really experienced the day properly.

Larry

[jazzy mary]

I ended up making a reservation at the Atheneum. It's not cheap, that's for sure. But it sounds like a nice hotel.

[bostontricky]

You're downtown? Greektown (with the highest flaming saganaki I've ever seen - Opa!) and Hamtramck it is, then. If you do venture out to Cranbrook during the day, I recommend Woodward Avenue all the way from downtown north out of the city. It's an instructive drive, to say the least.

As Larry reminds me, I am deficient in my Polishness in that I have not stood in the middle of Jos Campau Avenue in Hamtramck at 5:00 AM on Fat Tuesday with a thermos of coffee, waiting for my Paczki. It's the Hajj, only for Polacks.

If you are feeling extremely homesick for Brooklyn, may I recommend Zingerman's in Ann Arbor? Also Shaman Drum bookstore, plus used bookstores and music galore.

Ann Arbor's close to an hour's drive from downtown Detroit. I realize this sounds insane to anyone east the Schuylkill, but driving in Detroit is an absolute pleasure compared to Boston and my experiences in New York. Bring along a CD of your favorite Motown artist in the car, and drive!

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Larry Nagel
The best Polish food!

I'm pretty sure we already had this conversation on another thread, but Hamtramck has been getting some national attention for its attractions.

We did...I recall bringing up Home Improvement, on which they frequently ordered Polish from "Stan's in Hamtramck."

[GoodSpeak]

Why on EARTH would ANYbody go to Detroit...???


[blink, blink...mouth opened wide]



You mean willingly?


Wha-?

[bluenoter]

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
Why on EARTH would ANYbody go to Detroit...???

[blink, blink...mouth opened wide]

You mean willingly?

Wha-?

Next week I have to go to Southfield, Michigan for work. But it's near Detroit. --Jazzy Mary, Post #1

The first post in a thread is often very instructive. In many cases, it answers basic questions about the thread!

However, even if Jazzy Mary didn't have to go to the Detroit area, a few of the posters on this thread have done a beautiful job of explaining why someone might want to go there.

One can learn so much by reading, don't you think?

[moneyp]

Larry, Al, great descriptions. You make me want to go to Detroit for something other than a hockey game!

[clinthopson]

There's a pretty good deli in Ann Arbor - Zingerman's.

At lest it was 15 years ago when our daughter was going to U of M med school.

[jazzy mary]

Jeez, I've never been to Detroit, I'll bbe very near there--I love cities and am fascinated by them--so why not swing by? I'm only going to be there for maybe 2 days.

Btw, what is Larry Nagel's story? I wrote him a pm through the board and he hasn't even had the courtesy to respond at all. Before I "yell" at him, i'll give him a chance--maybe he's out of town or something. Does anyone know?

[bluenoter]

JM--Go to Message Tracking under Private Messages and see whether your message to Larry is marked Read or Unread.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by bluenoter
JM--Go to Message Tracking under Private Messages and see whether your message to Larry is marked Read or Unread.

I'd also note that it's not always obvious that you have a new PM unless you scroll to the bottom of the screen and check your message counts. I'm sure lots of people don't check their PMs with anything approaching regularity (much like I treat my voice mail).