Old November-13th-2003, 05:42 PM   #1
GregM
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Support for terror in Saudi Arabia

This article seems to attempt examples of how Saudis are condemning terror, but as far as I can tell Saudis are either applauding it or failing to acknowledge and do anything about it.

By DONNA ABU-NASR
The Associated Press
Thursday, November 13, 2003; 4:41 PM

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - The bombing that killed 17 people in the Saudi capital is intensifying pressure for democratic reform in Saudi Arabia, and is likely to undercut the militants' support among Arabs who previously sympathized to some degree with their goals.

While some have rejoiced over Saturday's suicide car bombing, many in the Arab world are shocked that it targeted Arabs and Muslims.

The bombing - the work of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network, according to U.S. and Saudi officials - hit a housing compound in Riyadh that the attackers must have known houses Arab families. As a result, said Saudi political analyst Dawood al-Shirian, many Saudis who felt some sympathy for bin Laden or even saw justification for the Sept. 11 attacks are now beginning to question his goals.

"When they see the images of dead children, when they see the images of a dead mother, if one of their own dies, they will turn away from the militants," said al-Shirian. "That's what will isolate the militants."

On the streets of the capital one evening this week, after breaking their daily Ramadan fast, some Muslims expressed fear such attacks would sully Islam or encourage its enemies.

Khalid al-Sultan, 32, a catering company employee, called it "un-Islamic." Abdul-Rahman al-Sheikh, a 41-year-old businessman, said al-Qaida militants are "not only a threat to the people in the kingdom but also a threat to humanity and our peaceful religion."

That feeling was not universal, however. In Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, many Arabs have fallen back on conspiracy theories about America and Israel engineering the bombing - or at least letting it happen - in order to discredit Islam.

"I have the feeling that those who did it can't be Muslims. Why not Americans?" lawyer Fatma Lasheen said in Cairo. "The American Embassy closed the day of the operation. And if not, why didn't they foil this operation if they knew about it? Don't you think it is strange?"

The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh had closed because of fears an attack was imminent, but U.S. officials said the intelligence did not say where it might happen.

Saudis who support the attack speak on condition of anonymity, lest they attract the attention of the government as it arrests suspected militants. But they don't hide their pride nor their certainty that al-Qaida was behind it.

One Saudi in his 30s phoned a reporter to say he was "ecstatic." He said he wanted the kingdom, home of Islam's most revered holy places, to return to life as it was in the days of the Prophet Muhammad.

Another, also in his 30s, said people wish such attacks were happening every night, but would prefer they targeted Americans and Westerners.

Al-Shirian, the Saudi analyst, noted the militant mind-set was shaped in part by radical clerics regularly approving suicide bombings elsewhere as resistance to Israeli oppression of Palestinians or an American "war on Islam."

"This is a mistake that all Arab countries should have been alert to," al-Shirian said. "The governments should have made the religious establishment aware that such attacks have become a weapon used against our societies because they were sanctioned against other civilians, Israelis and Americans."

Talal Salman, publisher of the Lebanese leftist daily As-Safir, said the bombing will cost al-Qaida support.

"I think these attacks draw a clear and defining line between terrorism and resistance," he said. "I think Arab and Muslim public opinion in general knows that ... resistance should take place in the open, above the ground. It should be directed against an occupier, not take the form of killings in New York, Riyadh or Bali."

Mohsen al-Awajy, a Saudi lawyer with contacts among extremists, said he believes the militants' following will decline, but that radicalism and violence will persist until the authoritarian Saudi system loosens up sufficiently to "provide the atmosphere for people to cooperate with it."

Reformists doubt that corruption among the royal family's thousands of princes will end or the strict Islamic grip on daily life will ease.

Saudi officials have been saying for months that the ruling Al Saud family knows change is urgently needed.

The officials point to plans for the country's first municipal elections and the introduction of schoolbooks showing young boys and girls together, something extremists decry as a violation of Islam's separation of the sexes.

Since the bombing, however, some officials speaking on condition of anonymity, are conceding that change must come faster.


© 2003 The Associated Press
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Old November-13th-2003, 06:34 PM   #2
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Hey you are so enlightened dumb boy. The United States is a terrorist state.

I am really sick of you yankees sitting on youir imaginary moral high ground when you are members of a nation run by successive criminal governments. There are plenty more enlightened posters here from the US who are willing to acknowledge this fact. You sit there smug and talk about crimes against humanity when your country is as guilty as the others you accuse. You are a hypocrite and you only deserve our scorn.

“I will never apologize for the United States of America — I don’t care what the facts are.”

— President George Bush, Sr.
referring to the mass-murder
of Iranian civilian people
by the U.S.S. Vincennes


http://www.apfn.org/thewinds/archive/war/a102896b.html
U.S. MILITARY CHARGED WITH MASS MURDER
Since the beginning of the civil war in Bosnia in 1991, there have been news reports of the atrocities committed in that troubled region. There have even been reports that the Bosnian Serbs have executed thousands of Muslims and buried them in mass graves. Many Americans would be astonished that the same atrocities were committed by the U.S. military in Panama in 1990, according to an award winning documentary on the Panama invasion.

In early July, 1996, the U.N. sent earth-moving equipment to uncover mass graves discovered near Srebrenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina, where thousands of Muslims are believed to be buried. The U.N. is attempting to build a case against Bosnian Serb leader, Radovan Karadzic, and his military commander, Gen. Ratko Mladic,in order to charge them with war crimes.

This type of mass burial during war is not unique to the Balkans, according to documentary film produced by THE EMPOWERMENT PROJECT.

The ninety minute film entitled THE PANAMA DECEPTION builds a substantial case against the U.S. military for the same types of war crimes. A portion of the film shows the exhuming of a large mass grave containing the bodies of both men and women, young and old. Almost all were civilians that were killed during the U.S. invasion. Some of the victims had been shot in the back of the head, execution style. It is asserted during the documentary that there are many mass graves within Panama but are located within the U.S. military controlled zone and are not accessible.

U.S. Army General Maxwell Thurman admitted during an interview shown in the film that there was a grave containing "some number" of bodies. He did not elaborate. A Pentagon spokesman said calling it a mass grave would be "imprecise".

The official U.S. toll of Panamanian deaths is approximately 256 and admits that 75 percent of those were civilians. Four different human rights groups put the death toll at 2,500 to 4,000 civilians.

THE PANAMA DECEPTION shows a "scorched earth" aftermath in the neighborhoods of Colon, San Miguelito and El Chorillo. Twenty thousand civilians lost their homes during the American bombardment and subsequent fire, and many lost their lives as well.

Former U.S. Attorney General, Ramsey Clark, has condemned the invasion as illegal. He also said that is was characterized by a "shear, overwhelming use of raw firepower."

A spokesman for the Organization of American States (OAS) said in an interview included in the documentary that the U.S. invasion was a violation of the OAS charter (of which the U.S. is a signator), the U.N. charter and the the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention clearly prohibits attacks against civilian targets.

The U.S. military barred reporters from taking pictures during the invasion. Panamanian reporters who approached the neighborhood of El Chorillo (where the Panamanian armed forces were headquartered) were arrested and had their film confiscated. There is very little film footage of the actual invasion. The American military was careful to conceal its actions, similar to the Bosnian Serbs and the Stalinist Soviet Regime.

During the invasion the American press parroted the official story about "freeing Panama from narco-dictator Noriega" (like the Soviets freed Hungary in the late 50's). Even though there was no legal justification for the invasion, there was not a word of protest from the mainstream American media.

On June 16, 1996, the PANAMA DECEPTION was broadcast by the Southern Educational Communications Association via satellite to all of the public television stations in the United States. Even though the film won the Academy Award for best documentary feature in 1993, PBS refused to show it on the national network.

Like many crimes, the U.S. invasion of Panama was carried out at midnight. When the day arrives for the complete uncovering of the deeds of all men, Americans will stand aghast at the crimes committed by their own country under the cover of darkness.



July 27, 1981 — Newsweek published an article reporting that CIA Director William Casey had authorized extensive plans to assassinate Qadhafi and overthrow the popular democratic government of Libya. This classic American M.O. included a media propaganda campaign and numerous “psy-ops”, or psychological warfare operations, aimed at creating turmoil within Libya.

August 19, 1981 — Eight American jet fighters attacked two Libyan air force reconnaissance planes over Libyan territory in the Gulf of Sirte, shooting them down.

1985 — The CIA recruited mercenaries to be trained for several attempts to assassinate Qadhafi. One of the plans called for sprinkling a special poison into his food that would weaken his immune system, causing a gradual death with symptoms that would not be immediately recognized.

March 25, 1986 — U.S. Navy warplanes from the Sixth Fleet bombed Libyan civilian targets in the Gulf of Sirte. They attacked a Libyan Coast Guard boat, murdering the crew of 10 men. The Navy jets also attacked a larger Libyan Coast Guard ship. 42 men of the crew escaped into the water and attempted to swim to shore. The U.S. Navy pilots slaughtered them all in the water.

April 4, 1986 — While on a victory tour of the aircraft carrier “Enterprise”, stationed off the coast of Oman, Vice President George Bush characterized the U.S. Sixth Fleet’s terror campaign against innocent Libyan people as “a tough lesson for Qadhafi” which had given him a “nosebleed”. The brainwashed morons of the crew cheered.


Eleven days later, over 100 innocent people lay dead in the cities of Tripoli and Benghazi — including a little two-year-old girl. Murdered by these American heroes.



A report from the Sydney Morning Herald (Oct. 26, 2001) quotes Dan Kelly, head of UN mine clearing in Afghanistan:

“These bomblets can explode if the villagers so much as touch them. It is a very violent death. You don’t get arms and legs blown off like you do with anti-personnel mines, you get killed.”

Civilian people are being deliberately targeted throughout the country. Another deplorable U.S. tactic is repeat bombing to murder rescuers. In Jalalabad, the Sultanpur mosque was bombed during prayer. Then, as neighbors dug out 17 victims who were trapped, the U.S. Air Force jet returned to bomb them minutes later, murdering 120 people.
("Where the Bodies Are," Oct. 23, 2001, Geov Parrish,



Afghan war documentary charges US with mass killings of POWs
Showings in Europe spark demands for war crimes probe

By Stefan Steinberg
A documentary film, Massacre in Mazar, by Irish director Jamie Doran, was shown to selected audiences in Europe last week, provoking demands for an international inquiry into US war crimes in Afghanistan.

The film alleges that American troops collaborated in the torture of POWs and the killing of thousands of captured Taliban soldiers near the town of Mazar-i-Sharif. It documents events following the November 21, 2001 fall of Konduz, the Taliban’s last stronghold in northern Afghanistan.

The film was shown in Berlin by the PDS (Party of Democratic Socialism) parliamentary fraction to members of the German parliament on June 12. The following day it was shown to deputies and members of the press at the European parliament in Strasbourg.

After seeing the film, French Euro MP Francis Wurtz, a member of the United Left fraction that organised the showing, said he would call for an urgent debate on the issues raised in the film at the next session of the European parliament in July. A number of other deputies in the European parliament called on the International Committee of the Red Cross to carry out an independent investigation into the allegations raised in the film.

Leading international human rights lawyer Andrew McEntee, who was present at the special screening in Berlin, said it was “clear there is prima facie evidence of serious war crimes committed not just under international law, but also under the laws of the United States itself.”

McEntee called for an independent investigation. “No functioning criminal justice system can choose to ignore this evidence,” he said.

The Pentagon issued a statement June 13 denying the allegations of US complicity in the torture and murder of POWs, and the US State Department followed suit with a formal denial on June 14.

Doran, an award-winning independent filmmaker, whose documentaries have been seen in over 35 countries, said he decided to release a rough cut of his account of war crimes because he feared Afghan forces were about to cover up the evidence of mass killings. “It’s absolutely essential that the site of the mass grave is protected,” Doran told United Press International after the screening in Strasbourg. “Otherwise the evidence will disappear.”

Doran’s call for the preservation of evidence was echoed by the Boston-based Physicians for Human Rights, which issued a statement June 14 urging that immediate steps be taken to safeguard the gravesite of the alleged victims near Mazar-i-Sharif.

Late last year Doran shot footage of the aftermath of the massacre of hundreds of captured Taliban troops at the Qala-i-Janghi prison fortress outside of Mazar-i-Sharif. His film clips, showing prisoners who had apparently been shot with their hands tied, ignited an international outcry over the conduct of American special operations forces and their Northern Alliance allies.

Doran’s new film includes interviews with eyewitnesses to torture and the slaughter of some 3,000 POWs. It also contains footage of the desert scene where the alleged massacre took place. Skulls, clothing and limbs still protrude from the mound of sand, more than six months after the event.

The film has received widespread coverage in the European press, with articles featured in some of the main French and German newspapers (Le Monde, Suddeutsche Zeitung, Die Welt). Jamie Doran has also given interviews to two of the main German television companies.

While the documentary has become a major news story in Europe, it has been virtually blacked out by the American media. The UPI released a dispatch on the screenings last week, yet the existence of the film has not even been reported by such leading newspapers as the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post. The film and its allegations of US war crimes have been similarly suppressed by the television networks and cable news channels.

This reporter was able to view the 20-minute-long documentary in Berlin. In the course of the film a series of witnesses appear and testify that American military forces participated in the armed assault and killing of several hundred Taliban prisoners in the Qala-i-Janghi fortress. Witnesses also allege that, following the events at Qala-i-Janghi, the American army command was complicit in the killing and disposal of a further 3,000 prisoners, out of a total of 8,000 who surrendered after the battle of Konduz.

Afghan witnesses who speak of these atrocities are not identified by name, but, according to the director, all those testifying in the film are willing to give their names and appear before an international tribunal to investigate the events of the end of last November and beginning of December.

In Doran’s film, Amir Jahn, an ally of Northern Alliance leader General Rashid Dostum, states that the Islamic soldiers who surrendered at Konduz did so only on the condition that their lives would be spared. Some 470 captives were incarcerated in Qala-i-Janghi. The remaining 7,500 were sent to another prison at Kala-i-Zein.

Following a revolt by a number of the prisoners in Qala-i-Janghi, the fortress was subjected to a massive barrage from the air as well as the ground by American troops. The atrocities inside Qala-i-Janghi are confirmed in the film by the head of the regional Red Cross, Simon Brookes, who visited the fort shortly after the massacre. He investigated the area and found bodies, many with their faces twisted in agony.

The American Taliban supporter John Walker Lindh was one of 86 Taliban fighters who were able to survive the massacre by hiding in tunnels beneath the fort . In one chilling scene in the film, we witness actual footage, secretly shot, of the interrogation of Lindh. We see him kneeling in the desert, in front of a long row of captive Afghans, being interrogated by two CIA officers. The officer leading the interrogation is heard to say: “But the problem is he needs to decide if he lives or dies. If he does not want to die here, he is going to die here, because we are going to leave him here and he’s going to stay in prison for the rest of his life.”

Massacre in Mazar then goes to describe the treatment meted out to the remaining thousands of captives who had surrendered to the Northern Alliance and American troops. A further 3,000 prisoners were separated out from the total of 8,000 who had surrendered, and were transported to a prison compound in the town of Shibarghan.

They were shipped to Shibarghan in closed containers, lacking any ventilation. Local Afghan truck drivers were commandeered to transport between 200 and 300 prisoners in each container. One of the drivers participating in the convoy relates that an average of between 150 and 160 died in each container in the course of the trip.

An Afghan soldier who accompanied the convoy said he was ordered by an American commander to fire shots into the containers to provide air, although he knew that he would certainly hit those inside. An Afghan taxi driver reports seeing a number of containers with blood streaming from their floors.

Another witness relates that many of the 3,000 prisoners were not combatants, and some had been arrested by US soldiers and their allies and added to the group for the mere crime of speaking Pashto, a local dialect. Afghan soldiers testify that upon arriving at the prison camp at Shibarghan, surviving POWs were subjected to torture and a number were arbitrarily killed by American troops.

One Afghan, shown in battle fatigues, says of the treatment of prisoners in the Shibarghan camp: “I was a witness when an American soldier broke one prisoner’s neck and poured acid on others. The Americans did whatever they wanted. We had no power to stop them.”

Another Afghan soldier states, “They cut off fingers, they cut tongues, they cut their hair and cut their beards. Sometimes they did it for pleasure; they took the prisoners outside and beat them up and then returned them to the prison. But sometimes they were never returned and they disappeared, the prisoner disappeared. I was there.”

Another Afghan witness alleges that, in order to avoid detection by satellite cameras, American officers demanded the drivers take their containers full of dead and living victims to a spot in the desert and dump them. Two of the Afghan civilian truck drivers confirm that they witnessed the dumping of an estimated 3,000 prisoners in the desert.

According to one of the drivers, while 30 to 40 American soldiers stood by, those prisoners still living were shot and left in the desert to be eaten by dogs. The final harrowing scenes of the film feature a panorama of bones, skulls and pieces of clothing littering the desert.

http://www.boycottusa.org/articles_afghan_pows.htm
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Old November-13th-2003, 06:47 PM   #3
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Apropos U.S. terrorism...



Buried Secrets
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Old November-13th-2003, 06:55 PM   #4
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Thanks aussie JBW for alerting us to your love of "boycottusa.org"

Meanwhile, elsewhere on the web. . .

Experts Comb Web for Terror Clues

By Bernhard Warner
European Internet Correspondent
Wednesday, November 12, 2003; 12:13 PM


LONDON - Cyber investigators are scouring the World Wide Web for clues on any future suicide bomb attacks, deploying satellites and other high-tech wizardry to hone in on suspicious Web surfing activity.

Intelligence officials had warned some kind of attack would occur in Saudi Arabia before Sunday's suicide bomb blast in Riyadh after finding evidence on anonymous postings on Arabic Web sites and other forms of Internet chatter. The strike killed at least 18 people and wounded 120 others.

"The Internet is a very useful open source for investigators. But as with any unattributable piece of information, tips must be corroborated and verified, and only then can they be added to the overall intelligence mix," a British cyber investigator told Reuters.

Intelligence experts say they have evidence extremist groups are using the Web and e-mail for purposes ranging from recruitment and fund-raising to spreading propaganda and scouting out potential targets.

Investigators probing the Saudi blast will be combing the Web for disguised, or encrypted, e-mails and statements on Internet discussion forums that drum up anti-Western sentiments, the intelligence experts said.

But they also said it is rare to find information which might point to a specific target.

There is also scant evidence subversive groups are using the Internet to launch digital attacks on a country's critical national infrastructure, computer networks that control everything from police emergency response hotlines to power grids.

GROWING ROLE OF WEB

But all signs point to the ever growing role the Web is playing in spy games.

The Echelon satellite system used for eavesdropping on mobile phones has an Internet cousin -- Internet monitoring software capable of siphoning up vast bits of Web traffic that, in theory, can trace suspect Web activity.

In the United States, the technology is referred to as the DCS-1000, or Carnivore. A host of Western countries are believed to be deploying similar technology, said Ira Winkler, former intelligence and computer system analyst with the National Security Agency.

Meanwhile, intelligence watchers point out that intelligence agencies are deploying the classic spy tactic of setting up so-called "honey pots" with a high-tech twist -- in this case, setting up a bogus Web site to attract the very people they are trying to monitor.

And their targets are engaging in a similar spin war.

"If terrorists think they are being monitored, they could release chatter just to screw with people's minds. Creating fear and uncertainty is what they do," said Winkler, who is now chief security strategist for PC maker Hewlett-Packard .

Investigators and security experts are quick to point out that despite the influx of high-tech gadgets, the art of intelligence gathering has not changed, and is certainly no more precise.

"X almost never marks the spot in intelligence gathering," said Richard Starnes, director of incident response for British telecoms firm Cable & Wireless and an adviser to Scotland Yard's Computer Crime Unit.

"The only time you are going to get an X-marks-the-spot-scenario is if you have inside information, a person inside that is verified as being accurate in the past. That will always be highest level of intelligence. If you get it wrong, you can get people killed. If you get it right, you can save lives," he added.
TechNews.com Home


© 2003 Reuters
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:01 PM   #5
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I'm actually unpleasantly surprised that JBW and Chris A. seem unconcerned with Greg's larger point, which is that the brutal Saudi monarchy is a state which endorses and finances terror.

Does nobody really care the majority of September 11th hijackers had Saudi passports?

Actually, if Bush decided to upend that pissant little dictatorship of sand, I might have to pull a Hitchens and give critical support to the endeavor. I say this as someone who was and remains opposed to the wars against/occupations of Afhganistan and Iraq.

And frankly, even in the case of Iraq, the Communist Party sits on the interim governing council, because the U.S. got rid of the Ba'ath Fascists. Thats dialectics for you.

Down with the House of Saud! For a secular democratic Middle East!
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:10 PM   #6
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Well said, but democracy and separation of Mosque and state are not likely movements in the Arab world. As it stands now, democracy would equal theocracy. A little problem it seems dubya has totally overlooked.
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Does nobody really care the majority of September 11th hijackers had Saudi passports?
I care; the House of Saud's days are numbered and it couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:25 PM   #8
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so who are the Bushies gonna support? Al Q or the Sauds. Who is either fir us or agin us? That's all the dialectics they can handle.

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Old November-13th-2003, 07:28 PM   #9
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so who are the Bushies gonna support? Al Q or the Sauds.
Are you implying there's a difference?
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:29 PM   #10
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Actually, if Bush decided to upend that pissant little dictatorship of sand, I might have to pull a Hitchens and give critical support to the endeavor.

Absolutely. Why we continue to cater to those tyrants is far beyond me.
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:32 PM   #11
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Originally posted by Alex
Are you implying there's a difference?
imho, there is. two different groups. one has power, one wants it.
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Absolutely. Why we continue to cater to those tyrants is far beyond me.
Ummm... oil??

Kinda like the way we catered to Saddam, before he fucked up and threatened countries with even more oil than his own.
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:34 PM   #13
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Ummm... oil??
Unfortunately, I believe you are absolutely correct, Al.
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:35 PM   #14
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Originally posted by Uli
imho, there is. two different groups. one has power, one wants it.
Correction:

One has power, the other is financed and was constructed by those in power.

What you are witnessing is the breakdown of the House of Saud, with it's own Frankenstein monster playing one faction against another.

I think I'll go drink a beer and make love to my girlfriend as a way of celebrating Ramadan (not necessarily in that order).
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:37 PM   #15
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Al said:
Quote:
Ummm... oil??
Kinda like the way we catered to Saddam, before he fucked up and threatened countries with even more oil than his own.
Can you recommend better folk in the Arab world? We're on the brink of catering to a new council of leaders in Iraq. Does anyone really think they will turn out better than the Saudi princes?
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I'm actually unpleasantly surprised that JBW and Chris A. seem unconcerned with Greg's larger point, which is that the brutal Saudi monarchy is a state which endorses and finances terror.

Does nobody really care the majority of September 11th hijackers had Saudi passports?

I am not unconcerned. However, I am concerned about US hypocrisy. The US supports the Saudis anyway so its just *another* act of comlicity for oil.

Why shouldn't the US be boycotted for its crimes?


Quote:
Thanks aussie JBW for alerting us to your love of "boycottusa.org"

I don't "love" websites dickhead.


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Old November-13th-2003, 07:46 PM   #17
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You just love to hate the US.
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Old November-13th-2003, 07:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by GregM


Can you recommend better folk in the Arab world? We're on the brink of catering to a new council of leaders in Iraq. Does anyone really think they will turn out better than the Saudi princes?
Probably not. I think we should just give them our gov'mint. That will fix'em.

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Old November-13th-2003, 07:55 PM   #19
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No I love the US, but hate hypopcrites like you and your criminal governments.


The US had so much potential but is now and forever tainted with its foreign policy crimes and morons like you robotically support these crimes.

I also hate the way our country has been dragged into your crimes, beginning with Vietnam.

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Old November-13th-2003, 08:02 PM   #20
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JBW, while I generally agree with your extreme distaste for American foreign policy, and certainly don't side with Greg or Scott, I'm not sure that the U.S. is "forever tainted" by its policies any more than, say, Britain or France are by their past horrors.
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Old November-13th-2003, 08:12 PM   #21
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  • JBW, bear in mind that Greg suffers any number of complexes, paranoia being a major one. He also--although he not-so-convincingly claims a lack of respect for Bush--is of the "love-it-or-leave it"/"with-us-or-agin'-us" school of misunderstood patriotism. Fortunately for all of us, he eventually self-destructs to a point where it becomes necessary for him to troll down a new path.
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Old November-13th-2003, 08:13 PM   #22
GregM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JBW
No I love the US, but hate hypopcrites like you and your criminal governments.

The US had so much potential but is now and forever tainted with its foreign policy crimes and morons like you robotically support these crimes.

I also hate the way our country has been dragged into your crimes, beginning with Vietnam.
Ok, that's quite enough. You on that little Island are descended from British criminals who should have all been strung up. You've been no friend to your own natives, the aborigines. You would be well advised to point some of that vitriole right into the mirror. Your own leader, Howard, is a vocal supporter of the war on terror and with good reason seeing as how some of your Indonesian or Maylaysian neighbors would be more than happy to blow you all up.

And for the record, I voted for Gore, not Bush, and during the time of Vietnam I was handing out "war is not healthy for children and other living things" posters for the McGovern campaign. JBW. Australian for stupid.
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Last edited by GregM; November-13th-2003 at 08:26 PM.
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Old November-13th-2003, 08:23 PM   #23
kenny weir
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Greg. Jazz boardese for "endless entertainment".
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Old November-13th-2003, 08:28 PM   #24
GregM
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I aim to please.

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Old November-13th-2003, 08:30 PM   #25
john williams
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Quote:
Originally posted by GregM
Ok, that's quite enough. You on that little Island are descended from British criminals who should have all been strung up. Your own leader, Howard, is a vocal supporter of the war on terror and with good reason seeing as how some of your Indonesian or Maylaysian neighbors would be more than happy to blow you all up.

And for the record, I voted for Gore, not Bush, and during the time of Vietnam I was handing out "war is not healthy for children and other living things" posters for the McGovern campaign. JBW. Australian for stupid.
1) A third of Australians are descended form the Irish who hate the English. Get your facts straight!


2) Howard is a fuckwit and should be shot.


3)We have been a little patronising towards Malaysia and Indonesian, its not surprising they don't like us.


4) Australia is a VERY BIG island.



5) GregM : M is for Moron!
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Old November-13th-2003, 08:34 PM   #26
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch.

Saudis Say Lifestyle Was Under Scrutiny

By ADNAN MALIK
The Associated Press
Thursday, November 13, 2003; 6:57 AM


RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - The foreigners who lived in the mainly Arab residential compound devastated by a suicide bombing say they were visited by Saudi religious police three months ago, putting them on notice that their Westernized lifestyle was under scrutiny.


Saudi and U.S. officials have blamed Saturday's attack, which killed 17 people, on al-Qaida, the militant Muslim terror network blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks and a sworn enemy of the Saudi ruling family, which it accuses of being insufficiently Islamic and too close to the United States.

Most of the residents of the Muhaya compound were Lebanese. The bodies of five Lebanese killed in the Riyadh explosions were returned home late Wednesday for burial. About 500 relatives, some weeping, gathered at Beirut's international airport as the bodies arrived.

The bodies of a Lebanese boy and girl remained in Saudi Arabia where their injured parents were still recovering.

Four Egyptians killed in the Riyadh attack were flown home Thursday. Other victims came from Saudi Arabia and Sudan.

The choice of target in the attack, which hit mostly Arabs and Muslims, has baffled many in the region. It may be an indication al-Qaida's rage is directed as much at Muslims seen as having slipped from the religion's true path as at Western "infidels."

Muhaya was typical of compounds housing members of the large contingent of foreign workers in Saudi Arabia: a place where non-Saudis and even some Saudis could escape rules banning alcohol and mixing of men and women in public and requiring women to cloak and veil themselves when outside their homes.

Muhaya had a coffee shop where men and women sat together chatting over water pipes and watching foreign movies and other entertainment on a big screen television. It was next to a pool where women swam in bikinis.

Agents of the Saudi religious police - the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - roam Saudi streets and shopping malls berating or even manhandling those who violate the social code. Its chief holds the rank of Cabinet minister in a kingdom where the royal family retains power in part with the support of conservative religious authorities.

Some Saudis chafe at the religious restrictions. Saturday's bombings and similar attacks in Riyadh in May have sparked debate about whether the strict form of Islam preached in Saudi Arabia fosters intolerance and extremism.

Seven bearded, robed religious police officers visited the Muhaya compound three months ago, saying they had reports of an "un-Islamic" party being held there, residents told The Associated Press on Wednesday. The religious police scuffled with compound guards who barred their entry until the compound owner arrived. During the delay, residents of both sexes slipped out of the complex coffee shop.

The religious police eventually were allowed in and headed straight for the coffee shop. They left after finding it closed.

Muhaya residents said religious police had visited about four years earlier, also saying they had heard a party was being held.

Residents said most compound parties are birthday gatherings for children. They said some residents may have alcohol in their homes, but it was never consumed in public.

One resident, who gave only his first name, Rashid, said he always wondered whether compound activities were being watched from the surrounding mountains. Some residents of the compound, located in a ravine, believe the attackers came from the mountains.

Saudi investigators say at least one attacker was in a bomb-packed vehicle, while others may have entered on foot. The attackers first exchanged fire with security guards, then drove in a vehicle painted with police insignia and blew it up.


© 2003 The Associated Press
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Old November-13th-2003, 08:36 PM   #27
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Is that where you dolts are hanging out?
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