John Muhammad GUILTY on all counts

Monte Smith · November-17th-2003, 12:02 PM

Breaking news from Virginia Beach:

DC Sniper suspect John Muhammad has been found guilty on all counts.

GregM · November-17th-2003, 12:50 PM

He's a sick f*ck.

bluenoter · November-17th-2003, 02:06 PM

He and his partner terrorized my whole region for weeks in addition to murdering or maiming men, women, and children. Normally, I oppose the death penalty, but I won't be too upset if he's sentenced to death, especially if it's by firing squad.

MRS · November-17th-2003, 02:15 PM

Well then. . .it certainly doesn't look like you oppose the death penalty.

tippy · November-17th-2003, 02:25 PM

What was the motive?

GregM · November-17th-2003, 02:27 PM

General hatred of humans/America.

Tanager · November-17th-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Schaumann
Well then. . .it certainly doesn't look like you oppose the death penalty.

I hate to say it, Rita, but I agree with Michael. Part of opposing the DP (IMHO) is doing so even when you or someone close to you is the victim - that's the hardest part, I think.

Monte Smith · November-17th-2003, 02:46 PM

Never too early to start the pity party.

tippy · November-17th-2003, 02:52 PM

It just goes to show that seeking the death penalty is an emotional response.

November-17th-2003, 03:02 PM

Quote:

I hate to say it, Rita, but I agree with Michael. Part of opposing the DP (IMHO) is doing so even when you or someone close to you is the victim

I think we've already seen how convenient and fluid the convictions of some around here are.

I'm glad they convicted this son of a bitch. I remember that was when we were moving up here. I was actually glad that we did not have to drive through that area. I can't imagine how it must have felt to actually live there.

Whatever they do with this cocksucker won't be harsh enough IMO.

Yo Schaumann, were you at Faurot Saturday? I wasn't at the show, but was a few blocks over watching it at CJ's munchin on some killer wings.

Tanager · November-17th-2003, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monte Smith
Never too early to start the pity party.

With all due respect, Monte, while I can't pretend to speak for anyone else, I don't see it as being about pity (it == opposing executing John Muhammad), but about a principled opposition to the death penalty per se. If you disagree with that, then I certainly respect your right to do so, but please don't twist it around and mock my opposition as being some stereotypically wimpy weepy liberal hand-wringing.

GregM · November-17th-2003, 03:14 PM

Let's rehabilitate him. Maybe he'll be a cop someday. . .he'll get out in about 2403.

Tom Storer · November-17th-2003, 03:17 PM

Yeah! What Tanager said.

I oppose the death penalty, period. In all circumstances. That doesn't mean I'll weep for John Muhammad. (Hell, I wouldn't even weep for certain law-abiding neighbors of mine if they keeled over dead, let alone psychotic mass murderers.) Opposing the right of the state to kill people has nothing to do with having warm, fuzzy emotions for people who have unilaterally decided that *they* should have that right.

Gordon B · November-17th-2003, 03:27 PM

Some death penalty opponents are against it because of the possibility of executing an innocent person, not because they think it's wrong to execute a guilty person, no matter how heinous his crimes.

Others, like Tom and Tanager are absolutely against the state having the right to legally execute anybody, under any circumstances.

Rita, are you in camp #1?

November-17th-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GregM
General hatred of humans/America.

Is that anything like general hatred of Arabs?

GregM · November-17th-2003, 04:08 PM

I wouldn't know, but you seem to have tapped into the Islamist mindset more deeply than anyone I've encountered on these boards, so maybe you can explain the hatred.

Clay Fink · November-17th-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gordon B
Some death penalty opponents are against it because of the possibility of executing an innocent person, not because they think it's wrong to execute a guilty person, no matter how heinous his crimes.

Others, like Tom and Tanager are absolutely against the state having the right to legally execute anybody, under any circumstances.

Rita, are you in camp #1?

I'm in camp #2. I was totally disgusted when Ashcroft moved these guys to Virginia so that they could kill them. I thought it was sick.

FWIW - these two were in my neighborhood working out at the local Y and my wife and I happened by the one shooting in the District (right over the Maryland line on Georgia Ave.) right afterward. We were affected by this. I still don't think the state should kill either one of them. They should be locked up for life.

November-17th-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GregM
I wouldn't know, but you seem to have tapped into the Islamist mindset more deeply than anyone I've encountered on these boards, so maybe you can explain the hatred.

Much as I have tried, I have yet to find any rationale for your hatred--based on your posts, it is deep, intense, and blind. My still unanswered question was simple, I asked it of you much as someone might ask George Russell what the Lydian Chromatic concept is.

GregM · November-17th-2003, 05:26 PM

Why do you identify so strongly with Arabs, Chris?

November-17th-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GregM
Why do you identify so strongly with Arabs, Chris?

I don't, but if I did, I fail to see why that would be wrong--as your question implies. What you don't seem to comprehend is that some of us identify strongly with human beings.

Squaredancecalling Steve · November-17th-2003, 06:20 PM

A local event like this can change one position. I was opposed to the death penalty until 1989, while Ramon Salcido was driving around Sonoma County in the process of killing 6 members of his family and his surpervisor at work. (His youngest daughter, her throat slashed and thrown into a dumpster with her two sisters, miraculously surived.)

bluenoter · November-17th-2003, 06:29 PM

I'm taking the liberty of moving this post ahead because I really want the people who commented to see it.

Folks, you're right. I have no defense. Obviously my "principled" opposition to the death penalty is a little shaky.

Gordon, #2 comes closer than #1. But "both #1 and #2" would come closest if you hadn't made them mutually exclusive.

GregM · November-17th-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris A
I don't, but if I did, I fail to see why that would be wrong--as your question implies.

Oh yes you do. You've adopted Arab PR, Arab websites and hatred of Israel, which you can't even relegate to the appropriate threads because you're so nuts.

Quote:

What you don't seem to comprehend is that some of us identify strongly with human beings.

More specifically you identify strongly with Muslim human beings who don't respect Israel's right to exist, don't respect Jews or their right defend themselves, and you also hate Washington. On every issue, you've sided with the Arab view over your own government's policies. I think it's important for you to be honest with yourself about this and to ask yourself why.

This thread is focused on a Muslim who decided he wanted to open fire on innocent Americans at random in our nation's capital. Yet all you can think to contribute to the thread is to take a cheap shot at the one person in the thread who you know is a Jew. Coincidence?

As for me, I don't hate anyone. I just wish folks like those with whom you identify so strongly can stop stop scapegoating and murdering.

November-17th-2003, 06:42 PM

Greg, your posts indicate to me a twisted, tightly closed mind, making it pointless to engage in any kind of dialog with you.

bluenoter · November-17th-2003, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GregM (addressed to Chris A)
This thread is focused on a Muslim who decided he wanted to open fire on innocent Americans at random in our nation's capital. Yet all you can think to contribute to the thread is to take a cheap shot at the one person in the thread who you know is a Jew. Coincidence?

Okay, a show of "invisible hands":

1. Who besides Greg thinks that this thread is "focused on" Muslims and Jews?

2. Who thinks that this thread should be focused on Muslims and Jews? I'm not raising my hand. Threads needn't stick to the subject, but I wish that this one would.

Greg, Chris knows that I'm a Jew, but he didn't take a "cheap shot" at me. Your paranoid distortions are going to create a "boy who cried wolf" effect that will come into play if you ever voice a legitimate complaint of anti-Semitism.

November-17th-2003, 07:15 PM

I for one thought that this thread was chugging along just fine until post #15.

I believe that is the post that shifted the slant of this conversation. It had nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread at all. Just another occassion for Chris to vent against his own personal nemesis. Which seems to be his favorite sport these days. He has been so completely off kilter since the "arrival" of Greg that his posts have gone from senseless on subject ramblings to constant personal attacks.

Am I wrong?

November-17th-2003, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Dolan
Am I wrong?

'fraid so--but nice try, Dolan.

#15 was an attempt to point out the hypocrisy of Greg calling anyone a hater. IMO, his response underscored my point. Funny, it hadn't even occurred to me to link the sniper activity with Muslims, but leave it to paranoid Greg to see this as a series of faith-based crimes. It was neither based on religion nor race, as far as I can see--just two mentally disfigured people going way over the edge.

November-17th-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

#15 was an attempt to point out the hypocrisy of Greg calling anyone a hater.

And you've got room to talk? Although I guess you WOULD be the expert on that.

Quote:

Funny, it hadn't even occurred to me to link the sniper activity with Muslims, but leave it to paranoid Greg to see this as a series of faith-based crimes.

Funny, before your post # 15, I don't recall Greg or anyone else bringing up anything about Arabs, Muslims, etc. Could you please point out which post prior to #15 that happened in Chris? I would appreciate it.

Quote:

It was neither based on religion nor race, as far as I can see--just two mentally disfigured people going way over the edge.

One full sentence from your post that I can actually agree with. Bravo!

Monte Smith · November-17th-2003, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Dolan
Am I wrong?

You are not wrong, Scott. This was a beautiful thread celebrating the conviction of the murderer John Muhammad. And now it's been ruined. Damn that post #15!

Sob, sob, sob.

November-17th-2003, 09:07 PM

Monte, Greg, and Scott going after me--damn! Don't mean to brag, but I must be doing something right!

BTW Scott, the reference to Arabs in #15 relates to Greg's oft-expressed hatred for Arabs (an obsession shared by Monte, not so incidentally), it had absolutely nothing to do with John Muhammad calling himself a Muslim or adopting a Muslim name. The killings were indiscriminate, but Greg--in his infinite compulsion to give matters a paranoid twist--decided that this thread "is focused on a Muslim."