Cookin' the bird

[clinthopson]

We haven't wandered down the cooking path for quite a while and what with the major eating holiday coming up, it's time to venture forth into the cloud of calories.

This year I'm trying something different with the turkey. I'va always been frustrated by the fact that the legs and thighs take a lot longer to cook than the breast which means that if you want a moist breast, your dark meat is underdone and if you go for done red meat the white meat is dry.

The answer?

I've cut up the bird taking the leg/thighs off and leaving the breast on the bone. My plan is to brine all parts overnight and then cook the breast in the oven and hot smoke the leg/thighs. I'll put the breast on a rack over the pan of dressing which should give the same flavor as stuffing the bird while properly cooking the dressing.

I'll make a cornbread, italian sausage, mushroom dressing.

What are you other cooking types doing?

[stonemonkts]

I'm not sure, but...GEEZ what time is dinner???

Sounds really good, Clint.

Just remembered...in yesterday's "Dining In" section of the NYT were many scrumptious sounding recipes for sides, submitted by NYC chefs (such as my favorite NYC chef, the guy at Gotham Grill). Anyone interested should check them out online (or grab the paper off the pile from yesterday).

[Gentle Giant]

A friend of mine's got one of those turkey fryers, and says it's pretty yummy. Takes like 6 gallons of oil and it's gotta be extremely hot, so it's not the easiest, cleanest, safest, or most practical way to cook a bird, but at least it goes well with fries.

I think your plan sounds good. I usually just cover the breast; I think it helps if you have a modest-sized bird. I'm a dark meat man myself but I'd never turn away from a moist breast.

[Tom Storer]

Here's my recipe for roast stuffed turkey, as I jotted it down one year:

Turkey size: 8 to 10 lbs

Preheat oven to 425°F.

Rinse turkey well, inside and out. Pat dry with kitchen paper. Massage skin with vegetable oil. Fill cavities with stuffing. Truss 'er up.

Into the oven with her. Turn heat down to 340°F after 15-20 minutes. During this time keep a watchful eye: if skin starts to blister, cover top of turkey with aluminum foil, shiny side up.

Baste well every 15 minutes or so.

After 2-1/2 hours, remove aluminum foil (if any) to let turkey brown. When nice and brown, remove from oven and test: poke a fork in around the drumstick joint. Juices should run clear.

When done, remove from oven and let stand with cloth over turkey 1/2 hour for meat to re-absorb juices.

It always turns out with white meat moist and dark meat cooked.

[Tanager]

I don't know why, but I had hoped that "cookin' the bird" was some kind of sexual euphemism. I'm quite disappointed.

[Chris D]

I shouldn't really reply, as Nancy will be the bird cooker, but she's already got a wicked good make-ahead gravy done and in the fridge.

We'll brine our bird as well. I think an apple brine is in the works. We'll also have an apple salad -- not a Waldorf.
My family -- a good portion of which is coming -- just loves that Durkee-onion green bean casserole, so I'll make that. Tough!
We do our dressing, also with sausage, in the crock pot. It stays very moist that way.
Pies, we'll probably have three, one of which Nancy's dad the Crust King will bake.

[Tanager]

We're not doing a bird this year - Mrs. Tanager is just too tired of all the leftovers filling the fridge which she won't eat (she does not like turkey at all). So we're doing a lamb stew (she won't eat ham, which was my second choice). This is only mildly disappointing, because Mrs. Tanager can cook lamb in ways that make it taste so good, it's probably illegal.

[Chris D]

Is she Greek?

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Chris D
Is she Greek?

Indian (Punjabi).

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Tanager
Indian (Punjabi).

Does she make sarson ka saag with makki ki roti? It's one of my favorite dishes.

[Pete C]

[jeff54]

I'm dying to try the deep fryed bird myself. Some friends of mine down south claim they put the oil in half a 55 gallon drum over a fire and lower it in on a chain.

[shrugs]

I'll be cooking ours in a water smoker. The best way IMHO.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by shrugs
I'll be cooking ours in a water smoker. The best way IMHO.

A hookah?

[shrugs]

ha!
Nope, just one of them smokers that has a pan you fill with water, wine, garlic, onion and such. Charcoal and hickory chips provide the heat/smoke.

[Tom Storer]

Originally posted by Chris D
We'll brine our bird as well. I think an apple brine is in the works.

Does this involve marinating the turkey before roasting? Could you elaborate?

My family -- a good portion of which is coming -- just loves that Durkee-onion green bean casserole

What's a Durkee onion?

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Originally posted by Tom Storer
What's a Durkee onion?

[Chris D]

Thanks, Jimmy.

Dukree is a brand of french-fried onion. It's ubiquitous (along with French's) for the green bean-mushroom soup casserole that's a staple for many Thanksgiving dinners.

As for brining, it's soaking in salt water before cooking. There are many methods out there now. Here's a method and recipe from the irreplaceable Cook's Illustrated. The rest of this post is a quotation from there:


A tried-and-true recipe, adapted for bigger birds
I haven't touched a turkey since that hot summer of 1993 when we roasted more than 30 of them for the November/December issue of Cook's Illustrated (see The Holiday Turkey Perfected). During those many tests, we discovered two essential keys: turkey tastes better if its first brined in saltwater; and the breast doesn't overcook (always an issue when cooked conventionally) if the turkey is rotated during roasting.

Back in '93, we roasted only smaller 12- to 14-pound turkeys. Obviously, when you cooked as many as we did, the smaller the better. When number thirty-something emerged from the oven looking good and tasting even better, we quit. We had taken the experiment as far as we could. We knew, however, that many Thanksgiving birds are necessarily larger--and we received many calls from readers wondering how to adapt our method for bigger birds. So we decided to revisit the subject this year, this time using turkeys in the 18- to 20-pound bracket.

Less Salt, Tastes Great
In our original experiments, we settled on a four-hour brining time, but it meant that cooks had to get up with the chickens to brine and roast their Thanksgiving turkeys. Given the increased roasting time of a larger bird, this method would have had cooks rising in the middle of the night.
If we decreased the brine strength, we wondered, might we achieve a convenient overnight brine? Our original brine called for 2 pounds of salt with a four-hour brining time. This time around, we reduced the salt to 1 pound and increased the brining time to eight hours. The schedule proved more convenient, and the resulting roasted turkeys and gravies tasted pleasantly seasoned. (Just be sure not to resalt the turkey before roasting, and don't salt the giblet broth.)

Next we adjusted the roasting technique. Turning a 20-pound bird on its side the way we did the 10 and 12 pounders was just asking for trouble. Even if it were possible, most ovens aren't big enough for a really large turkey to sit wing side up. Our smaller birds did not brown evenly without the extra turns, but the larger turkeys, given their longer roasting times, browned evenly with just one flip, from breast side down to breast side up.

Echoing our '93 experience, the roasting temperature became our real challenge. Because of the turkeys' large size, we found that roasting at 350 and 400 degrees F tended to overcook the exterior by the time the interior was done. We eventually found that roasting these large turkeys at 250 degrees starting with the breast side down then rotating it to breast side up produced the most evenly cooked turkeys. To brown the skin, we increased the oven temperature to 400 degrees for the final hour of roasting.

Originally we recommended roasting the turkey on a V-rack set over a perforated broiler pan. Because we were cooking the smaller birds at a high temperature, we found the pan juices evaporated quickly, causing the vegetables to burn. We recommended a perforated broiler pan that would allow the turkey juices to drip down while keeping the liquid from evaporating as quickly. This helped, but more liquid still needed to be added, and the perforated lid prohibited the cook from checking the amount of liquid in the pan. We now advocate a simpler solution: roast the turkey on a V-rack set in a heavy-duty roasting pan. When more water is needed (which is now easy to see), just add it.

We've also decided you don't need to add stock to the pan during roasting. Water, cooked with the pan vegetables and turkey drippings, makes a flavorful enough liquid to mix with the giblet broth.

The Best Roast Turkey with Giblet Pan Sauce
Serves 18 to 20

-1 large turkey (18 to 20 pounds gross weight), rinsed thoroughly, giblets, neck, and tailpiece removed and set aside
-1 pound salt (about 1 cup table salt or 2 cups kosher)
-1 bay leaf
-3 medium onions, chopped coarse

-1-1/2medium carrots, chopped coarse
-1-1/2 celery stalks, chopped coarse
-6 thyme sprigs
-1 tablespoon butter, melted, plus extra for brushing and basting turkey
-3 tablespoons cornstarch

1. Place turkey in large stockpot or clean bucket. Add 2 gallons water and salt. Refrigerate or set in very cool (40 degrees F or less) spot for 8 hours.

2. Remove turkey from saltwater and rinse both cavities and skin under cool running water for several minutes until all traces of salt are gone.

3. Meanwhile, reserving liver, put giblets, neck, tailpiece, bay leaf, and one-third each onions, carrots, celery, and thyme in large saucepan. Add 6 cups water and bring to a simmer, skimming foam from surface as necessary. Bring to boil, then simmer, uncovered, to make a flavorful broth, about 1 hour; add reserved liver during last 5 minutes of cooking. Strain broth (setting giblets, neck, and tail aside), cool to room temperature, and refrigerate until ready to use. (You should have about 1 quart of broth.) Remove meat from neck and tail, cut giblets into medium dice, and refrigerate until ready to use.

4. Heat oven to 250 degrees F. Toss another one-third of the onions, carrots, celery, and thyme with 1 tablespoon butter and place in body cavity. Bring legs together and perform simple truss.

5. Scatter remaining vegetables and thyme in roasting pan; pour 1 cup water over vegetables. Set heavy-duty V-rack, adjusted to widest setting, in pan. Brush entire breast side of turkey with butter, then place turkey, breast side down, on V-rack. Brush entire back side of turkey with butter.

6. Roast 3 hours, basting back side every hour or so and adding small quantities of water if vegetables look dry. Remove pan from oven (close oven door); baste with butter. With a wad of paper towel in each hand, turn breast side up. Continue to roast 1 hour, basting once or twice. With turkey still in oven, increase oven temperature to 400 degrees F; roast until skin has browned and internal temperature of legs and breast registers about 165 degrees, about 1 hour longer. Transfer turkey to platter; let rest 20 to 30 minutes.

7. Meanwhile, strain pan drippings into large saucepan (discard solids) and skim fat. Return roasting pan to stove and place over 2 burners set on medium heat. Add reserved broth to roasting pan, and using wooden spoon, stir to loosen brown bits. When juices start to simmer, strain into saucepan containing pan drippings along with reserved giblets; bring to boil. Mix cornstarch with 3 tablespoons water and gradually stir into pan juices. Bring to boil; simmer until sauce thickens slightly. Carve turkey; serve sauce passed separately.

[Chris D]

And, Tanager, on a culinary basis alone, you are a lucky man!

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Chris D
And, Tanager, on a culinary basis alone, you are a lucky man!

No argument here.

[GoodSpeak]

As per usual, the GoodSpeak houshold will be BBQ'ing the bird this year.


Preparation:

Rub the bird with basil flavored olive oil
Coarse ground pepper
Coarse salt [sea salt or margarita salt]

Using a kettle grill [Weber] place in a drip pan [for the gravy...yum] and employ a kind of indirect heat [placing the coals on the sides of the BBQ]; smoke with mesquite wood chips.

A 20 lb. bird takes just about 5 1/2 hours and the gravy is absolutely fabulous ;-)

Note: We do Mrs. GoodSpeak's homemade the dressing [with apples, ground sausage and walnuts] in a seperate oven dish since the oil will make it too heavy.

Serve with Pacific Rim Dry Reisling from Bonny Doon [damn the screw caps, man...this is Thanksgiving!], mashed potatos, yams, cranberry sauce and vegies.

Mrs. GoodSpeak's homemade pumpkin pie and black coffee for desert.

Cigars on the porch.




Life is good.

[Tom Storer]

Originally posted by Jimmy Cantiello

Horrors!

[Ron Thorne]

Clint, your approach sounds intriguing and tasty.

I won't be baking a turkey this year, since it's a year when Patti's parents are remaining in Alaska for the holiday, so her mother will bake the bird. On alternate years, they fly to the Pacific Northwest to share Thanksgiving with their four children who reside there.

I'll make an additional stuffing, probably one of my favorite cornbread/sausage/pecan combos, and a citrus/cranberry/raspberry relish I love. Patti, as usual, will bake a couple of her legendary pumpkin pies for the trip to Hope, Alaska and the wonderful, warm log home of her parents. We'll be joined by our daughter, son-in-law, two grandchildren and a nephew and his wife. An overnight stay and a warm morning-after-Thanksgiving breakfast with Nana and Pop-Pop, followed by some leftovers (read turkey/dressing sandwich) for lunch should make for a perfect holiday.

... burp!

[clinthopson]

I'm looking forward to the reports on the results.

On the brining thing, I've found that adding seasoning above the salt and suger doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I season the bird when I put it on with herbs and pepper, no salt necessary.

I make turducken every other year. So I'm due in '04.

[Pete C]

The demise of Sun Golden Island has necessitated a move to Grand Sichuan this year. The "bird" will be chicken and/or duck.

[Brian Olewnick]

Our family has established a mini-tradition (about 6 or 7 years now) of going up to the Bavarian Inn in Cairo NY (the northeast Catskills), a nice old place out in the middle of nowhere. They have three Thanksgiving dinner sittings at noon, 3PM and 6--we take the latter so we can hang out all night. Very comfy with an old German atmosphere (without the pointy helmets).

On the other hand, they are German, so the cooking tends toward the heavy, stomach-molesting kind. Not quite fine dining, but it gets the job done. Plus, their dessert buffet table has some incredible almond cream pies. If there's one thing the Germans do well in the food arena (and there may indeed be only one thing), it's rich, sweet desserts.

[bostontricky]

Let's talk stuffing for awhile, folks. Mrs. Tricky is vegetarian, and her clan insists on all comers bringing along a side dish to go along with the customary dishes (bird, stuffing, gravy, mash, yams, roasted roots etc) fired up by Aunt Peg. We've been firing up a modification of the spinach fusilli casserole in New Basics, kind of macaroni and cheese for grown-ups, with cheddar, brie, bleu cheeses, spinach, and more sage and thyme than I've seen in my life. But I digress.

What I would like to do one of these years is to prepare a small batch of stuffed squash(es?), probably acorn, to satiate the vegetarian palate. Trouble is, a lot of recipes I've seen have gimmicky stuff like cream cheese (!) in the stuffing, and I'd rather avoid stuff like that. Keep it simple, good bread, olive oil, nuts and berry type material. Raisins, craisins, butter, and I'll have to check the pantry for what else I'd start off with.

Any secrets out there, for what goes inside the bird?

[Brian Olewnick]

Peanut butter!!!

[Ron Thorne]

Originally posted by bostontricky
What I would like to do one of these years is to prepare a small batch of stuffed squash(es?), probably acorn, to satiate the vegetarian palate. Trouble is, a lot of recipes I've seen have gimmicky stuff like cream cheese (!) in the stuffing, and I'd rather avoid stuff like that. Keep it simple, good bread, olive oil, nuts and berry type material. Raisins, craisins, butter, and I'll have to check the pantry for what else I'd start off with.

Any secrets out there, for what goes inside the bird?

Preparing a savory stuffing and filling some large squashes sounds like an excellent alternative, bt. I'd opt for either a classic bread stuffing, full of onions, wheatberry bread, celery, salt, freshly ground pepper (of course), mushrooms and lots of ground sage, or a similar dressing made with cornbread, nuts and raisins. I have a few recipes if you're interested. Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward to prepare. Be sure to get whatever stuffing/dressing you make moist* enough so that it doesn't dry out during the baking process. I'd place foil over the top and remove it for the last few minutes if you want the top a bit crusty and browned.

*Water, juice or vegetable stock

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Originally posted by Chris D
Thanks, Jimmy.

Dukree is a brand of french-fried onion. It's ubiquitous (along with French's) for the green bean-mushroom soup casserole that's a staple for many Thanksgiving dinners.

Actually, Chris, if I'm not mistaken, Durkee owns the French's brand. So, they're one and the same...................

BTW, I've never tried it myself but I've heard of people roasting the turkey upside down for part of the time. Supposedly this method allows the fat to drip down towards the breast to keep it from drying out too much. Don't know if it actually works though.....................