I Had *SO* Much Fun in Detroit!!!

[jazzy mary]

I can't wait to tell you guys all about it! I was only there for 2 and a half days but I did it *up*!! Since I just got back today I'm mad busy but I can't wait to tell you all about all the fun things I did and saw and all the sweet, sweet people I met. Detroiters are SO nice!!

[Enforcer]

You tell 'em, Mary!

Larry

[clinthopson]

Originally posted by jazzy mary
I can't wait to tell you guys all about it! I was only there for 2 and a half days but I did it *up*!! Since I just got back today I'm mad busy but I can't wait to tell you all about all the fun things I did and saw and all the sweet, sweet people I met. Detroiters are SO nice!!

Obviously you didn't meet my in-laws.

[Valerie]

anxiously awaiting details....

[Enforcer]

Detroit America's Most Dangerous City

The timing is impeccable. Champs again! I knew we'd get the title back.

Larry

[MRS]

Next year, chump. . .the thing is, if STL wasn't the only unincorporated major American city (only 350,000 actually live in the city limits) we'd be in the thick of the 500,000+ category.


Breathing down your back,

Michael

[Al in NYC]

Tol'ja Mary. ...and people always laugh at me when I tell them that Detroit is where I go to paarty.

[bostontricky]

Detroiters past and present (and future?) are waiting with baited breath, Mary...

[jesus marion joseph]

I'm glad to see that Springfield, MA made the top 25 most dangerous list. There's an article in today's Boston Herald about a mob boss who got whacked there yesterday afternoon. If it wasn't for the Student Prince, there would be no redeeming value to Springfield at all (apologies to any Springfielders out there).

[bostontricky]

The Student Prince? (I guess I haven't been around here long enough...)

Four Detroit suburbs wound up in the list of top 16 safest metro areas, to balance out Detroit's worst standing. Read into that what you may.

My father and I were talking about the downfall of (the city of) Detroit and what strikes me today is how suburban the mentality of the metropolitan area is - that it is more prestigious in almost all instances to not only live in the suburbs, but also to work in the suburbs, which as a Bostonian strikes me as completely absurd.

Are there any other urban areas that have shunned the city as much as Metro Detroit has turned its back on the city? I can't think of any.

[jazzy mary]

Ok, guys here ya go...... After spending a week in Southfield, MI. where all I saw were offices and documents about automotive re-finishing (it's a long story but it's a litigation I'm working on), I escaped on Friday afternoon and told my taxi driver to head to the Atheneum Hotel in Detroit. The *moment* I got here, my man Andre at the front door, asked me my name, told me he'd take care of me and so on. I'd heard on the radio on the way to the airport that Marcus Belgrave and Kurt Elling were playing at the "Max" that night, so when I got to my room, I called them up to see if they still had seats. They did, so I was pretty tired after working 13 hour days for a week, so I rested for maybe two minutes. The Atheneum is a grand old hotel that needs a little bit of a face-lift. My suite was huge with a big living room, a bedroom that you walked down to and a big bathroom. It was not cheap--$200 a night! But when I was figuring where I should stay in Detroit, I figured that, since I didn't have a car and since I didn't know Detroit at all it would be best if I stayed in the best hotel and downtown. I'm so glad I did because it made *all* the difference.

I was out of saline solution (I won't spare any of the details, guys) so I asked if there was a drug store downtown and, I couldn't believe it (although now I know Detroit doesn't really have any services downtown) there wasn't! The gift shop didn't have any either. The front desk woman said "oh, Tony can take you to the CVS" I was like "What?" The Atheneum has a shuttle service that will take you within 5 miles of downtown and that is what made my entire visit to Detroit! The cats who drove me around, hipped me to everything, went out of their way to make sure I was taken care of made my visit. These 3 cats Andre, Corey and "the world famous Toney-tone" were a gas and so sweet!!

So, Toney-tone gets the shuttle tells me to sit up front and off we go, talking non-stop! We were talking so much that he even came in to the CVS with me and helped me find the "eye-care" section. Then when I was paying he stood behind me, waiting for me. It was like I had a body guard!! Pretty hip.

Well, Toney-tone gave me the straight scoop on Detroit. He was born in Chicago, but raised in Detroit. He told me "First of all, this is a Black city!". I got that. All I saw were Black people and the mayor, after all, is named Kwame and he wears a big diamond earring. I was like, "man, I'm down with that--for shizzle". Given that I had only a day and a half Toney-tone told me what I should do. First I had to go to "Hitsville-USA" and since I wanted to do the DIA and the Afro-American museum I should do that after. Just call them and they would take me here, there, pick me up whatever. I was like "really!!??" He was like "hey, Toney-tone will take care of you". I wish. Anyway....

That night, I went to the Max Fisher (Is that the "body by Fisher" people?) theatre where the Detroit Symphony plays. What a beautiful theatre! Part of it is completely redesigned--a beautiful modern, very sophisticated design and then you have the original part of the theatre that was all murals and chandeliers and all that. I got a great ticket for $48 for the concert to hear the "Detroit Jazz Orchestra" with Marcus Belgrave and then Kurt Elling and his trio. I have actally never seen Kurt Elling, so that was cool. Guys, I hate to say it, but I have to go and do work. I'll try to finish this all later--I have so much more to tell you about the concert, Hitsville (that was some deep, spiritual s**t for me), the museums, a concert at Joe Louis arena and so on and more about the beautiful cats! Will you all stay with me?

[Al in NYC]

They re-named Orchestra Hall after Max Fisher? Well, whaddaya know. Max (who is not related to the Fisher Body Fishers -- made his fortune in gas stations and land development) is someone that both my mother and I have had occasion to work with, and while we never agreed with his politics, and he could be rather, ummm, difficult personally, one does have to give him credit for never abandoning the City as so many others did.

I am so glad Mary had a nice time in Detroit, but there are, as Boston Tricky and others point out, some very real problems in the area. As someone who was born and raised in the real live no shit City of Detroit (and whose family still lives there), I have to say that Tricky is absolutely right about the city/suburb divide. I have never seen or heard of anything anywhere else quite like the situation in the Detroit area. This is the main reason that Downtown looks so abandoned, and mentioning that one actually lives IN THE CITY can be occasion for some wide-eyed stares and incredulous questioning from suburbanites or folks who once lived in the Detroit area. There is a very real mistrust of people who still live in the City of Detroit. This has been so bad in the past that I have actually had suburban bank branches (in whose downtown Detroit bank I was a depositer!) refuse to cash my checks after seeing "Detroit" on my drivers licence, and had stores refuse to take a credit card from me for the same reason. My dear mother -- a very polite and well-groomed older lady -- has had the same experiences, and we're white... so I can only imagine from the stories I've heard from my black friends and relatives what it's like for them. The worst are suburban police departments who have pulled me over for bogus charges (Hazel Park police once pulled me for "unnecessary driving"), no doubt after running my plates and getting a Detroit address, and have held me in jail for simple traffic violations while they "checked my warrants" (with the full expectation apparently that someone from Detroit would have some outstanding warrants). And, of course, they always ask the same question: "what are you doing out here?" --as if I have no right to be there at all without a very specific reason for my presence. Things seem to have improved a bit from those paranoid days, but the great divide most definitely still remains.

Must've been the CVS on Jefferson Ave., right Mary? My ol' running grounds...

So, who did you see at "the Joe?" What else did you find fun and interesting? Nice to hear that the Atheneum realizes the problems that visitors to the City face and have found a good way to deal with them. For folks who live with a lot of daily problems and hassles most Detroiters can be some of the nicest sweetest people around.

[Enforcer]

Al,

Great points. The divide is still 100% alive and there are no signs of change. It's amazing how far reaching the scope of that divide is, too. If you were born *in the city* (like I was - Grace Hospital), you can't get a copy of your birth certificate from Wayne County, like all the residents of other Wayne County cities can. Detroit keeps its own records. You might as well have a colored dot on your forehead, because the *from the city* stigma is just like a Caste System all its own. The only bright spots are the arenas and the casinos. They literally mandate suburbanites to come downtown for that kind of entertainment (and sports are just huge in Detroit, so they do come). I wish they could get the Pistons back to Detroit, somehow. Auburn Hills is not even remotely like Detroit.

And bostontricky's comment about the suburban "safety" is absolutely related to the problems with the divide. The attitude everyone seems to take is this: If you make it, get the hell out. And with a huge automotive industry, there is a ton of money and affluence, and the benefactors of that success all *did* get out. So what you have left over is Detroit and all the problems that come along with that economic and social abandonment. And the people in the city resent the flight, and the people in the suburbs just don't want to have anything to do with the city and never want to look back.

Thus, we have the mythological "Eight Mile Road Divide." It's not quite as perfect as its reputation, but things do change pretty drastically pretty close to that line.

Larry

[moneyp]

Originally posted by jazzy mary
Well, Toney-tone gave me the straight scoop on Detroit. He was born in Chicago, but raised in Detroit. He told me "First of all, this is a Black city!". I got that. All I saw were Black people and the mayor, after all, is named Kwame and he wears a big diamond earring. I was like, "man, I'm down with that--for shizzle". Given that I had only a day and a half Toney-tone told me what I should do.

"First of all, don't say 'for shizzle.'"

:-)

Money-Moné

(eager to hear the rest, JM)

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Two hundred for a suite? C'mon, Mary, that's a bargain compared to NYC..............

[tippy]

Yeah, I think for $200 in NYC you have to share a bathroom.

I'm with you Mary. Eager to hear the rest. For shizzle.

[jazzy mary]

Mone, Actually, Toney-tone used the word "for shizzle" first and we really laughed about it. I told him we say that all the time at my house and then add "my dizzle".

All the rooms at the Atheneum are suites.

Ok, before I went to the concert, I walked around Greektown for a minute and had pizza at "Pizza Papalis". It was really good. Then Andre took me to the Max. You Detroiers should go there! It's a really nice concert hall. One thing I noticed whenever I went oit people dressed up a lot more than they do here in NY. A lot of people at the Max---black and white were all dressed fancy-like. The Black or Afro-American Detroiters really dress! I have never seen such color and fabric coordination and the women are bad! Heck, so are the men! I really dug that. At the Maz first the DJO played w/ Marcus Belgrave. They were good but some of the playing wasn't quite up to the standards I'm accustomed to hearing in New York. I don't mean to be so New York snobby but I'm lucky to hear the miost incredible music here all the time. I thoroughly enjoyed it, however. They mainly played Tadd Dameron tunes as they had just recorded a Tadd Dameron cd. There was an intermission during which I visited the absolutely terrific gifty shops at the MAx. They not only had a gft shop for gift-y things. Igot cool "musical designsocks for my girls but they also had a fab. cd and book store. Chris A: you'll be happy to hear that your "new and expanded" Bessie book was prominently displayed as was the new Jimmy Scott bio. I picked up a bio on Bill Evans titled "How My Heart Sings".

Then Kurt Elling came on. I should add that the Max was pretty well sold out it looked to me. I got a seat because scattered singles are pretty easy to obtain. Believe it or not, I had never seen Kurt live. I was not a big fan of his recordings because his voice just doesn't do it for me and I am not a fan of scatting---lyrics please!!! But, I gotta say he put on a really good show. He comes across as a very genuine and nice guy and his stage persona is very appealing. Thankfully, he has dropped some of that "faux" hipster look--no white shoes--thank God--he was dressed in a nice suit, no tie w/ his hair tied back. But, isn't it time for him to cut his hair? He sang some standards and then did a big scatting, what he called his "special effects" thing (he was funny in a very genuine way) and of course, the audience loved it. If you like that sort of thing it was good,he has a very good voice. He then sang his version of "Resolution". He told us thatAliceColtrane ok-ed the lyrics. I know she has say over how any Coltrne song is used and she is really against having them used commercially or for anything she doesn't support. Can you imagine how much money could be made from using some of his songs for a car commercial? I wonder if he would get any money from his version of "My Favorite Things"? Maybe not, because, as I understand it, only the composer and lyricist get royalties not the interpreter. So, Rodgers & Hammerstein would make out but Coltrane's totally unique and instantly recognizable version would be just another interpretation. Does anyone know about this?

Yikes, I gotta go. Real fast about Elling. I didn't really dig his version of "Resolution" because I couldn't understand one bloody lyric!! Articulation is extremely important to me in a vocalist. Think of Eddie Jefferson--you heard and understood every word! His band was great. Laurence Hopgood, his pianist, was a really extraordinary player--deep, great technique, subtlely, elegence and soul. He swung too. In many ways his playing had many qualities I admire in Frank Kimbrough's playing. After the concert, Elling was signing cds and I was hoping Laurence would be out there so I could ask him if he was hip to Frank. Frank, do you know him? I think you two would dig each other. Alas, he was no where in sight. Toney-tone picked me up and back to hotel. First he gave me a little tour around and showed me the "Brush(?) Park area where they are doing urban gentrification and some of the historic old houses are being renovated into condos and are going for upewards of $400,000.00!! We were looking in the windows! They looked nice but wow, that's expensive!

Next day--Hitsville!!!

[Al in NYC]

Mary, you might also be interested to know that the venue in which you saw that concert, which was orignally known as Orchestra Hall, was also Detroit's major black entertainment center during the WWII era when it was known as the Paradise Theater. The Paradise was essentially the Detroit version of the Apollo in NYC or the Regal in Chicago, and most top black jazz and R&B acts appeared there. My grandmother, who loved Billie Holiday, had pictures of herself in line waiting to see her there. My dad remembers seeing Count Basie with Jimmy Rushing, Coleman Hawkins, the Nat Cole trio, and while he was in college up the street at Wayne seeing Dinah Washington in all 6 (!!) of her shows in one day.

[Enforcer]

Al,

Did you ever hang at The Bluebird?

Larry

[Al in NYC]

Larry,

I'm a bit too young to have done so, although I have been in the bar (which is still open as far as I know) years after its jazz club heyday. My young jazz experiences were in the Cobb's Corner era. However, my parents, who went to school with Pepper Adams, Kenny Burrell, and Don Byrd, were in there rather often in the old days (along with other old venues, like the Rouge Lounge and the Flame). That's where my father struck up his lasting acquaintances with Tommy Flanagan, Milt Jackson, and the criminally under-rated Billy Mitchell.

[jazzy mary]

Al, thanks for that. I *am* interested. Man, do I envy your dad!

[Enforcer]

Al,

I'm too young too, but I went to the Bluebird a few years back and caught a great little show there. Tommy Flanagan, who hadn't played the Bluebird in 40 some years at that point, made a homecoming to do a show there and I was lucky enough to see it. Unfortunately, the mood was somewhat dampered by news that his good friend, Ella, had just passed away. But Tommy still played inspired and it was great just to hear him. The walls were (are?) still decorated with black and white photos of the greats who would come to play there back in the day. Of course Tommy and all of the Joneses (Elvin, Hank and Thad) were regulars. There's a neat picture of Miles there, too.

Larry

[bostontricky]

Al and Larry - Are you boys both Eastsiders? My father was Austin High '55 but I am not sure whether or not his runnings-around would have crossed paths with you gentlemen (I am guessing he pre-dates you, but not by much).

If my grandfather were still around I would ply him for some knowledge - he headed up his own dance band from at least '32 to '55, and probably smaller groups after that point. I've got quite a bit of sheet music piled up back home.

[jazzy mary]

Guys, I have to get out of here, so I'll finish my story later--there is still lots more to tell!!

[Al in NYC]

Austin, huh? Alma matter of the late, great Dave DeBusschere.

I'm East Side indeed... my father went to Denby during WWII, and my mother attended Cass Tech (as did my sister and most of my cousins). My grandfather went to St. Charles Borromeo on Baldwin between Kercheval and Lafayette and my grandmother went to old Eastern High at Grand Blvd. and Mack. My great-grandmother grew up in a farm house near what is now Dickerson and Mack. 4 generations of my family are buried in Elmwood Cemetary, and my folks live within sight of Belle Isle, so you could say that I have some claim to East Side heritage.

Detroit was a real center for dance bands in those days, with all of its big dance halls and its large population of single men and women drawn from the countryside and overseas, making money and looking for fun. So I'll bet your grandfather had some great stories to tell. Some of the biggest name bands spent a lot of time in Detroit, and of course the Goldkette band (with Bix Biederbecke) and the McKinney Cotton Pickers (with Don Redman, Benny Carter, etc.) kicked the whole thing off at the Greystone on Woodward back in the '20's

[bostontricky]

I am going to have to do some digging, but off the top of my head (and without a street map). My grandparents had a place built for them on Marseilles in the late 30s - I've got the blueprints here, somewhere. Grandpa worked for Chrysler during the day and had the band weeknights and weekends. Not sure where he schooled, probably the local parochial joint.
His sister married and wound up on Lansdowne, west of the Ford Freeway.

Before that they shared a house with my great-grandparents on Pennsylvania. Grandpa's father worked for Packard probably up until 1950 or so. Great-grandparents moved to Detroit sometime around WWI.

Mom's side of the family wound up in Hamtramck between 1900 and 1910. Dodge Main and Chevrolet folks, all of them. More ancestors in Mt. Olivet than I have phalanges...

The last of either side of the family cleared out in the 80s, sometime. We were living downstairs from a great-aunt at McNichols and Van Dyke until 1968 and cleared out to Clinton Township after my little brother was born. Last time I was there in 1990 one house on one side was completely gone, and two on the other side were gone as well.

[Al in NYC]

Originally posted by Larry Nagel
There's a neat picture of Miles there, too.

For those of us who grew up in the area in later years, the fascinating thing about Miles' time in Detroit back in the early '50's is that, according to his autobiography, he came to Detroit to get off drugs!! (and claims he was successful...). Grant Green apparently tried the same thing, but, alas, by the early '70's the strategy somehow didn't work quite as well.

[Al in NYC]

Originally posted by jazzy mary
Guys, I have to get out of here, so I'll finish my story later--there is still lots more to tell!!

We breathlessly await the rest of the story Mary.... but I guess we just have to wait for that durned holiday.


Tricky,

Your family sounds a LOT like mine. My family worked at just about all of the east side factories, including Chrysler (both Jefferson Ave. and Lynch Rd.), Dodge Main, Packard, and Hudson Motors. And other places like Budd, Bundy, Continental Motor, Detroit Edison, and Stroh's.

[james harrigan]

Originally posted by Larry Nagel
Al,

I'm too young too, but I went to the Bluebird a few years back and caught a great little show there. Tommy Flanagan, who hadn't played the Bluebird in 40 some years at that point, made a homecoming to do a show there and I was lucky enough to see it. Unfortunately, the mood was somewhat dampered by news that his good friend, Ella, had just passed away. But Tommy still played inspired and it was great just to hear him.

hey Larry, I was at that show (I lived in Detroit at the time). I remember good playing by Tommy, but he was definitely in a sad mood (he was wearing an Ella lapel pin, and got a bit loaded by the second set). Good anecdotes from Tommy, too, about playing with Billy Mitchell there.

[Enforcer]

Originally posted by Al in NYC
We breathlessly await the rest of the story Mary.... but I guess we just have to wait for that durned holiday.


Tricky,

Your family sounds a LOT like mine. My family worked at just about all of the east side factories, including Chrysler (both Jefferson Ave. and Lynch Rd.), Dodge Main, Packard, and Hudson Motors. And other places like Budd, Bundy, Continental Motor, Detroit Edison, and Stroh's.

Man, you guys are killing me. Are you my brothers or something? Welcome to my entire family, too. Oh, and Al, you should fix that typo... it's "Dodge's."

Larry