Audio Interconnect Cables

[Ron Thorne]

Not having bought any high-quality RCA audio cables in some time, I was astounded by the choices and prices, many of which are, frankly, absurd.

I fully understand and appreciate the notion of "you get what you pay for", thus my reason for creating this thread. I'm more than willing to pay a premium price for a premium product. I'm not interested in being duped, however.

I'd be very appreciative to learn of some real-world experiences, including ripoffs, as well as to receive some meaningful recommendations. I'm not about to pay $50.00 a pair for RCA cables, let alone $600.00. Get the picture?



I plan to buy several pairs of new RCA audio cables in the next week or so to replace aging, less desirable ones for connection with our new integrated amplifier, CD player, Cassette Deck, VHS player, etc.



Solid copper core vs. tightly twisted oxygen-free copper, mylar-wrapped, gold-plated, etc. ...

What's the real poop? Will you actually hear the difference between a $7.00-$12.00/pair and ones costing 4-5 times that much? In other words, where do the practical, sonic considerations evaporate and get taken over by a Nordstrom/Saks/Neiman-Marcus-type mentality?

Thanks.

[Cem]

I don't know if this helps, but I got some at Costco (consumer hell or heaven depending on how you look at it). I try not to give them my $, but they had a package of 4-5 different types of cables -good quality rca, optical digital, s video, component video, all 2 meters long, I believe- for under $50 (CDN). They were Canadian made, so I couldn't say no. When I purchased my tv, I haggled so hard, that they wouldn't even give me a break on the 3 footer $50 (CDN) cables, let alone throw them in.

[Tanager]

Just a suggestion, Ron: you may want to start creating these threads in the Audiophile forum, where they'll likely be more visible to those who care about such things.

[Chazro]

Wazzup Ron!

Having been involved in this hobby for quite some time I've come to the conclusion that cables absolutely DO make a difference but (there's always a but!) it's entirely system-dependent. In other words, if your system isn't terribly expensive you have no business looking at the ultra priced cables that are out there. It would be like putting the best/most expensive tires on a jalopy. If you care about sound quality (obviously, there's folks that hang here that don't) I would suggest this simple formula; 1/10th of your total systems worth is what you might want to spend on a pair of IC's. The company that's across the board recognized as the manufacturer of the best sounding cables at this point in time is called Nordost. Their product line offers cables from extremely reasonable to extravagantly crazy price points. Other companies known to produce no-bullshit quality cables are Tara, DH Labs, and Cardas. I've read that some people like cables from Radio Shack so you might want to give them a try, if for nothing else to compare. As always, I recommend Audiogon as a place to get all things audio-related on the cheap. Have fun, that's what it's supposed to be all about!

[shrugs]

Get the best ones you can get. Audiogon.com is a good idea and I would look for a dealer there that sells cables. Tell him you are looking for a deal on several pairs. You can post a wanted ad in the Wanted section. Dealers check there.

[Ron Thorne]

Thanks for the information, as always. I'll likely need to buy online due to limited choices locally, so Audiogon.com could be a lifesaver.

Your suggestion is well-taken, Tanager. I forgot that there was a separate Audiofile Forum, and posted in The Alley since it's (by far) the most active forum on Jazz Corner.

Anyone have any experience with Phoenix Gold ARx.610 True Balanced Interconnects? They're the ones pictured in the lower portion of my first post.

[Tanager]

I've heard good things about Kimber products as well for those not wanting to go broke buying interconnects.

[Chris D]

Audioquest or Kimber should do you well, Ron, if you're willing to go, say, $30 a pair.
They fit snugger to the jacks, for one thing.
Check Audio Advisor again. Look in the clearance. There may be some cheap demos.
(Used only by the AA staff.)

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Chris D
Audioquest or Kimber should do you well, Ron, if you're willing to go, say, $30 a pair.
They fit snugger to the jacks, for one thing.
Check Audio Advisor again. Look in the clearance. There may be some cheap demos.
(Used only by the AA staff.)

I have bought demo equipment from AA before - it's worth looking at, for sure, b/c the discounts are usually steep and the warranties are usually intact.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Ron, a word of caution when taking advice from Shrugs. Although the cat knows what he's talking about when it comes to audio equipment, I think he paid somewhere in the vicinity of $2000.00 for audio cables. I mean, he is totally out of control on this audiophile thing. I don't know about you but I can't hear that well to tell the difference/justify the cost..........................

[HenryMc]

What??$2000 for audio cables?? Hmmmm

Shrugs My man ...can I interest you in this bridge??

[Jimmy Cantiello]

HenryMc, of course I was mostly kidding about Shrugs, but I know for a fact that while he was living here in Connecticut, he spent mucho dinero for audio related equipment. I'm telling you, the cat is driven !............

[Ron Thorne]

Well, I see that Lois or Moné has moved this thread. It should be interesting to see what response it receives in this much less-frequented forum.

I'm slowly but surely narrowing down my potential sources for interconnect cables. Don't worry, Jimmy, I'm hip to and appreciate shrugs' passion for audio, and share it, but on a different level, and with less financial commitment.

I've determined that I need three new pairs of RCA cables, one of which is more important (sonically), and used more often than the other two. So, it seems prudent to spend more money on the more important connection and less on the other.

Most of the brands (six) suggested to me were simply too expensive for my limited budget, unfortunately. There was only one entry level pair for under $35.00. I'm very appreciative of the suggestions, however. If money were no object ...

If anyone out there is familiar with the following cables, I'd be happy to learn of your opinion and/or experience. Or, if you can offer an opinion based upon their specs, that might be helpful. Here's a potential order:

1 pair - Ultralink Matrix Series RCA Audio Interconnect Cable - $28.99



• Dual balanced audio interconnect cable with "Time-Aligned TM" multiple gauge 6N OFHC copper conductors

• Two conductor directional twisted pair configuration with proprietary winding geometry comprised of three precision wound wire networks for separate high, mid and bass frequencies

• Low capacitance polyethylene insulation for faster signal transfer

• Double shielded with full aluminum Mylar foil coverage and 95% braid 6N OFHC copper shield grounded at "source" end
• Precision machined, Teflon-insulated RCA connectors with exclusive patented Vacuum Spring-Lock technology and Ultralink 24K mil-spec direct gold-plating on all contact surfaces.

________________________________________________

2 pairs - Phoenix Gold ARx-600 3.25' True Balanced Interconnect - $12.49 each



The ARx.600 Series takes a monumental step in balanced audio interconnect value with a design which results in a sonically expensive cable. The ARx.600 Series features oxygen free copper (OFC) twisted pair stranding resulting in a low capacitance design and utilizes the Tantrum 6 cut tapered all metal RCA under design patent no. 413,569. The combination of the twisted pairs (8-9 twists per foot), a tinned copper drain plus 100% mylar foil shield covering the entire length of the cable offers superior shielding capability, greater RFI rejection and directionality. Cable jacket O.D: 6.0 mm

That's a total of $53.97 (for 3-pairs) before shipping, which seems very reasonable, considering the features.

Comments?

[Ron Thorne]

Or, an alternative for the lesser quality cables might be the following, approximately $5.00 more each than the Phoenix Gold model.



Ultra Link CHALLENGER® Audio Interconnect Cable - $17.95 per pair

• Side-by side cable construction for easy installation of left and right channels

• Heavy-duty injection molded RCA connectors with Ultralink® 24K gold- plated contacts

• Double-shielded with 100% aluminum Mylar foil and separate 6N OGHC copper braid

• Multi-stranded 6N OFHC copper center conductors

Frankly, I don't see the $10.00 difference, on paper. It's all in the hearing, I know.

[Cem]

Hey Ron, your mailbox is full so I'll post it here. If you have problems finding the stuff you need at a reasonable price, I can send you by mail the same ones as I got, provided they're still available. Let me know.

[mjb]

Ron,

There are quite a few discussion groups to be found on the net on the cable topic - here's one that offers seemingly pragmatic advice ... Cable talk

I have used Ultralink cables for a while and I think they are decent value for the money. I just got a Matrix S-video cable and it made a significant improvement in the picture quality on my satellite/tv connection.

[Ron Thorne]

Thanks for the heads up on my mailbox, Cem. I've cleaned out my inbox ... again. And, thanks for your very generous offer. What cables are you using, and what is the cost for a 1-meter pair?

Thanks very much for the informative link, mjb. This investigative process has been very illuminating in many ways.

[Cem]

Ron, the ones I'm using are ThunderCable. As mentioned, they came in a package: 1x2 meter each of RCA, S-Video, component video, optical digital. I'm not one of those that needs to spend lots on audio equipment to get a boner. This package cost under $50, I believe.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Originally posted by Cem
I'm not one of those that needs to spend lots on audio equipment to get a boner. This package cost under $50, I believe.

I think what Cem is trying to say is that he's a cheap date..........

[Cem]

Cheap? Jimmy, I can't *give* it away!

Ron, you may have better equipment than I do. Being a musician, probably better ears, soI don't know if the stuff I'm suggesting would be any good...? Mind you, this stuff is definitely superior to the what I'd think you'd get at Radio Shack and about as good as the $50/meter component video cables I got at the a/v store where I got my tv.

[Ron Thorne]

Actually, Cem, I have rather modest equipment for the most part, though I must say I really have loved my old Dynaco PAT-4 Preamp and Stereo 120 Power Amp, two very clean, well-designed workhorses which have lasted me almost 40 years. I do have a pretty cool old Rek-O-Kut belt-driven 2-speed turntable with a classic Grado Laboratory Series Arm, however. It's going to get back up and running soon, hopefully.

Since I've already picked up new audio/video cables, I'll probably just buy three (1-meter) pairs of audio cables, but thanks again for the offer. I appreciate it very much, my friend.

Thanks to the link which mjb provided my earlier today, I've become much better educated on the subject of audio interconnects, and am much obliged. From that bulletin board (ecoustics.com) comes this wonderful spoof, which I hope some here will enjoy.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Friday, November 14, 2003 - 02:19 pm

I've been a professional audio engineer for TV & film in the UK for over 30 years. The debate over exotic interconnects is a constant source of amusement to those of us who make a living from plugging things together.

I would guess that over those 30 years I've pushed high quality audio at all kinds of levels through enough cable to reach to the Moon.

After some recent discussion on a professional UK bulletin board about the same subject of loudspeaker cables, I posted the following spoof review. Allow me to share it with you all:

Lawnmower cable is definitely the latest fashion in this area.

Very affordable, easily picked out from other signal cables by it's orange colour, and plenty of copper in it too!

True audiophiles always install USED lawnmower cable, but the finest results come from households where the lawn has been mown continually in an East-West direction.

This has allowed the cable to cross as much of the Earth's magnetic field as possible, while carrying a fairly high AC current, producing a better molecular alignment within the cable structure.

The continual contact with damp ground also results in any damaging static being drained away from the plastic insulation, long before the cable's installation in top-end rigs.

Fanatics who have the luxury of a dedicated listening room may wish to preserve the organic integrity of the cable, by running a line of planters or window-boxes around the skirting board as cable supports, filling them with naturally derived compost, and planting a mix of high quality grass seed. Naturally the boxes should be bonded to Earth, through a grounding spike.

For systems running less than 25 watts per channel, a seed mix suitable for croquet lawns would be ideal, using a varied mix of around 95% fescue varieties, with the remainder being Highland Browntop Bent. Owners of higher power systems should substitute the finer fescues with Perennial Ryegrass, in a ratio of 1% per watt, up to a maximum of 45%. This approximates to playing-field quality turf, necessary to withstand the higher wear incurred by the current flowing in the cable. High-frequency phasing errors can be eliminated by a regular light application of "Weed & Feed", and immediate action should be taken if moss appears in the more shaded corners, a primary cause of damping factor anomalies.

Much debate is taking place as to which type of mini-lawnmower should be used to keep the turf at the recommended 20mm height. Traditionalists favour the Class A double triode cylinder, with heavy roller, while the modern digital brigade would only ever contemplate the switched-mode Class D rotary, with laser height control. Users should decide for themselves.

Enjoy!

-- Richard Merrick

[Tanager]

That was a spoof? You mean I poured 6 inches of topsoil in my listening room for nothing?

[Ron Thorne]

Originally posted by Tanager
That was a spoof? You mean I poured 6 inches of topsoil in my listening room for nothing?

Probably.

Well, I've made my decision concerning interconnect cables, and will be very interested to see and hear the performance. Some here will likely applaud my intense research and conservative purchase, while others might question my sanity.

I've purchased 4-pairs of Phoenix Gold ARX-610 cables ($5.99/pair) for less than $40.00 including UPS Ground shipping. I've seen these cables advertised for over $20.00 ea. online, so feel that I'm enjoying considerable savings.

____________________________________________

Phoenix Gold created the Tantrum ARX-600 series interconnects because they believe that you shouldn’t have to spend hundreds of dollars to have a noise-free system. These twisted pair balanced audio interconnects feature oxygen- free copper stranding, tinned copper drain plus 100% Mylar foil shield in a low capacitance design. This results in a sonically superior cable as the electrical properties and specifications of both the signal and signal ground connectors are identical. You end up with superior transfer of the original signal with awesome rejection of unwanted noise. The Tantrum ARX600 series features a dark blue outer jacket and tapered, six-cut Tantrum RCA ends. 2 channel, 3 ft. (1 meter) cable. Features:

• True Balanced Design
• Low capacitance dielectric result in sonically superior cables.
• Twisted Pair Conductors with 8-9 Twists Per Foot
• Directional Tinned Drain Wire
• 100% Mylar Foil Shielding
• Patented, 6-Cut, All-Metal RCA Ends



I'm very anxious to hear all of these new components, and will issue a necessarily biased report.

[Chris D]

Let us know how they work for you, Ron.

I've got a couple of "side" stereos that could use some cheap tweaking.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally posted by Chris D
Let us know how they work for you, Ron.

I've got a couple of "side" stereos that could use some cheap tweaking.

I certainly will, Chris. I'm not a cheapskate, and fully understand and follow the principle of "you get what you pay for", but ...

The profit margin on audio interconnect cables is an amazing thing, which I wasn't hip to until very recently. Some would call it obscene or indecent, not to mention dishonest.

These same cables are available online for $30.00/pair, by the way.

On another note, some online suppliers seem to make much of their profit on shipping (DUH!), hoping that you won't notice that one pair of 1-meter cables shouldn't/couldn't weigh 3 lbs. So, instead of paying for 2lbs. of freight for 4 cables (my current scenario), you'd pay for 12lbs.

Here's the link for the source from whom I ordered these interconnect cables.

http://store.yahoo.com/mediasource1/phauar.html

They've provided tracking numbers via UPS and been responsive via e-mail, as well.

More, later.

[Ron Thorne]

Well, after screwing up and only shipping one cable set instead of the four sets I ordered, the company has sent the remaining sets via UPS 2nd Day Air, a costly mistake for them. They're scheduled to arrive tomorrow, so after yanking everything out of our entertainment center yesterday, we'll do much of it again tomorrow.

Chris (and others), I'm very pleased with the appearance, construction and performance of the Phoenix Gold ARX-610 interconnect cables. The cables are supple, the RCA connectors are very nice, and I can neither see nor hear anything to complain about.

At $5.99 per set *, these cables are a steal!

* 1 meter (3.25 ft.)



Once again, here's where you can get 'em.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Well, I went back & forth on audio cables in the last few weeks as I finally make the last purchases for multi-channel SACD and DVD-A playback. The speakers are (almost) all in place... I've yet to get the subwoofer, but that's not really necessary for multi-channel playback. The receiver is all hooked up and programmed... I think. I still don't know if I got the speaker settings right. Why do they make you set the distances on both the receiver and DVD player anyway?

So... cables. I really looked hard at the Phoenix cables that Ron recommended. I have had very good luck with Monster Cable but they seem to have gone downhill since they went after the Best Buy & Circuit City chains. Besides, why pay $45 per 1 meter pair, right?

Well, I fell in love with these:


Unfortunately, they are $43 per 1.2 meter pair, just a bit more than Monster Cables. They're from Outlaw Audio. Yes, they are a lot more than Ron's Phoenix cable but they look like a lot more than Ron's cables too! Now the real test is whether they sound a whole lot better than Ron's.

FWIW, I am not a huge believer in these things improving sound but like I said, I just think these cables look like a piece of art.

BTW, the RCA connectors on these cables are "locking". I must say, this "feature" sounds a lot better on paper than it is to implement in practice. I had a bitch of a time getting the locking feature to work. There is not a lot of room around these connectors on the back of either the receiver or DVD player. Getting my fingers in there to screw the barrel was not fun... well, worse than that... it sucked.

As for "the big test"... well, it's already started. I've been playing back my multi-channel discs the last few days and my first impressions are, "Wow!" and "Umm, this is multi-channel?" as well as "Damn, I should have gotten bigger rear speakers". One the "winners" so far is the DVD-A of the Eagles' "Hotel California". It sounds phenomenal.

I think I may post my "Multi-channel Impressions" on another thread soon.

Later,
Kevin

[Kevin Bresnahan]

BTW, the board's software only allowed one picture in that last post. I wanted to include this picture of the locking RCA connector:



Later,
Kevin

[Chazro]

Wazzup Kevin!

I just wrote a lengthy reply and lost it when I went to preview it! I'll cut to the chase. I own a few pairs of cable from DH labs that also uses that damnable locking plug. I wrote about an experience causing me to send my amp out for repair but I'm not going to elaborate (again!). Bottom line for me is this, before connecting the plug if you turn the head too much in one direction it won't connect due to it being too tight, too much in the other direction and it's too loose. It's relatively simple too find the point where the plug goes on nice and snug WITHOUT turning in place after connected and then.....fuhgedaboudit!!!

[DWBass]

Let me say this, I would never buy anything from this company! There's a cat named Long Ly, a bassist and former bass instrument retailer who now works for Tara Labs. He actually tried to sell folks (on a bass related forum) AC cables for $375 and of course they sell all sorts of audio connect cables. I don't like being duped, period! He tried to convince folks that Tara AC cables would improve the audio of any componant (amplifiers) but could not provide any such proof. Blind tests and double blind tests were to be set up from six months ago and have not happened as yet.

Anyway, Radio Shack gold plated cabling is just as good as anything on the market.