US Military Is In Baghdad

Monte Smith · April-4th-2003, 11:10 PM

Christ, its live on Fox! Ollie North and Greg Kelly are reporting FROM Baghdad.

Greg Kelly is embedded with a convoy of the 3rd Infantry Division moving thru the streets of Baghdad. At first he reported no resistence and no one on the streets and then he reported heavy resistence and that the 3rd ID was firing at weapons positions.

Ollie has not been heard from on the air, but he is reported to be with the USMC in the city.

moneyp · April-4th-2003, 11:31 PM

Good. Hope this is all over with soon, with a minimal loss of life.

willy · April-4th-2003, 11:33 PM

I'm watching "Mr. Excitement" (Aaron Brown) talk about it on CNN right now. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so depressed in my life. Unless things go terribly wrong for the US military from here on out I seriously think this guy might commit suicide.

Monte Smith · April-5th-2003, 12:49 AM

Kelly's unit has been in Baghdad for two hours and is reporting heavy resistence. Estimates they are ten kilometers inside the city limits. Satellite uplink is intermitent.

Somewhere else are the Marines.

Ron Thorne · April-5th-2003, 02:34 AM

Monte, you need to put your drawers in the dryer, pronto.

Father Thorne

HenryMc · April-5th-2003, 02:54 AM

Christ its live on fox and will be all night
sure to excite the sedentary right
and the journos all use phone and fax
to ensure the war junkies all climax
i'm sorry if I just can't get excited
cause killing wont make the wrongs all righted
the only thing for which I pray
is this war will end today
and innocent blood won't keep spilling
for iraqis or the coalition of the willing

Monte Smith · April-5th-2003, 01:26 PM

Yes, yes...I have my face in a paper bag to prevent hyperventilation. But this is two things: extraordinary reportage and more importantly a positive development in the war.

Knock, knock, knockin' on Saddam's door.

Monte Smith · April-5th-2003, 02:03 PM

And speaking of sitting around in Lazy Boy's watching the spectacle unfold on Fox....

Ron Thorne · April-5th-2003, 02:57 PM

There is only one positive development in a war ... THE END.

walto · April-5th-2003, 03:02 PM

So, now that we're in "the red zone," where are all those WMDs you were so darned worried about, Monte That's why we're there, right--take care of that big, big threat to civilization as we know it?

Oh yeah, it's a war of liberation. Uganda is next. Never mind. Carry on. Spigots, ho!

Pete C · April-5th-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monte Smith
Yes, yes...I have my face in a paper bag to prevent hyperventilation.

Monte, you should try a noose. I hear it makes the orgasm more intense.

willy · April-5th-2003, 03:52 PM

"Oh yeah, it's a war of liberation. Uganda is next."

California should be liberated next, IMO.

walto · April-5th-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willy

California should be liberated next, IMO.

Didn't that state vote for Bush?

willy · April-5th-2003, 04:04 PM

In what century? California went to Gore.

walto · April-5th-2003, 04:18 PM

Sorry. I guess I was thinking of the Reagan century. Go get a couple dozen bunker blasters and some cluster bombs & Liberate away: those bozos have obviously got it coming. Hey, maybe you could enlist an enlightened army of Mississippi and Texas folk (and Florida Republicans) for this task. They'll show those Hollywood sissies a thing or two about democracy!

lynn · April-5th-2003, 06:58 PM

Must be a picture of Centcom getting their war updates. All warm and cozy in their lounge chairs.

Monte Smith · April-5th-2003, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lynn
Must be a picture of Centcom getting their war updates. All warm and cozy in their lounge chairs.

Actually, Lynn, those are troops in the field. Kuwait, I believe.

Walter, I certainly do hope that once the shooting stops, we can find some WMD to wave in your face. But don't want to find them in the form of chemical-filled shells landing on our troops! No point is worth that. There will be time for full discovery when the shooting stops--for now, we have found stuff only by accident as our troops overrun positions. Charles Sennet of the Boston Globe reported on Wednesday that a chem/bio lab was uncovered in Ansar al Islam, the al Qaeda and Islamicist territory in Northern Iraq. We've found tons of shells, tons of atropine, tons of chemical gear...we found that shit in hospitals. And speaking of chemicals, maybe today we killed Chemical Ali. Huzzah!

But while you can insist that America surrender unconditionally in the propaganda war if their argument on WMD fails to satisfy you, plainly there were many arguments that make this war a good idea. Saddam himself is an obstacle to the development of the Arabic world and a sponsor of terrorism. Popping him? Cool. This is a war of liberation--you can scoff at that, but that's very cool too. It is also the first step in reforming the whole of the Islamic world--that's the extraordinarily ambitious goal that was articulated by Wolfowitz et al., and its one that I think is totally boss cool and the reason I support this war.

Uli · April-5th-2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monte Smith

But while you can insist that America surrender unconditionally in the propaganda war if their argument on WMD fails to satisfy you, plainly there were many arguments that make this war a good idea. Saddam himself is an obstacle to the development of the Arabic world and a sponsor of terrorism. Popping him? Cool. This is a war of liberation--you can scoff at that, but that's very cool too. It is also the first step in reforming the whole of the Islamic world--that's the extraordinarily ambitious goal that was articulated by Wolfowitz et al., and its one that I think is totally boss cool and the reason I support this war.

Monte, America does not have to surrender in the propaganda war. It alredy lost. Bushi, Sharon, The Saudis and many more are as much an obstacle to the development of the Arabic world as Saddam, is popping them cool too? And no, there is not a shred of evidence that Saddam sponsored any anti-American terrism.

April-5th-2003, 10:27 PM

Well, the Bush thugs have practically admitted that WMDs are not to be found in Iraq--their latest spin is that they have been moved to Jordan (I believe that's a fantasy butcher Sharon came up with, some time ago). Anyway, they are apparently now saying the WMDs are in Jordan, so that may--if Rumsfeld has his way--be the next country we invade illigally. I see the White House criminals killing people and destroying property throughout the area as the follow the imaginary WMD trail--what jerks! Of course there is Iraq, another country Bush's speechwriter threw into his absurd "Axis of Evil" copy. They, of course have WMDs, so who knows what kind of trap Bush has sent our young people into.

They say Bush sleeps well and has delusions that god is on our side! I don't believe in any god, but what I always hear about him/her from those who do, being on our side with Bush fronting the regime would be out of character--to put it mildly.

I am very much afraid that Bush and his incompetent crew are creating more terrorists than Bin Laden ever dreamed of.

GoodSpeak · April-5th-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by walto
Sorry. I guess I was thinking of the Reagan century. Go get a couple dozen bunker blasters and some cluster bombs & Liberate away: those bozos have obviously got it coming. Hey, maybe you could enlist an enlightened army of Mississippi and Texas folk (and Florida Republicans) for this task. They'll show those Hollywood sissies a thing or two about democracy!

There IS no Democracy in Ray-gun Country...only rush-isms and empty conservative platitudes.

And even Gray Davis has gone South on us Democrats...what happened here?

I just can't WAIT for Bush's off-shore oil wells to start springing up. Woo-HOO!!! Pollute them California beaches, oh YEAH!

Aren't republicans just the greatest bunch of environmental stewards and conservative/compassionate humanitarians you ever knew, huh?

Give it up for the republicans! C'mon, lemme hear ya!

Give me republican dictatorship or give me Iraqi/California/Alaskan OIL!!!

No oil well left behind.

OH, yeah.

LOVE them Bushie-bouys.

Uh, huh...uh, huh.

GoodSpeak · April-5th-2003, 10:55 PM

BTW...my neighbor's kid is in Baghdad.

A Marine tank gunner.

I only pray he comes home alive.

His Mother is scared spitless.

Here's to the REAL face of Bush's war...

moneyp · April-5th-2003, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
There IS no Democracy in Ray-gun Country...only rush-isms and empty conservative platitudes.

And even Gray Davis has gone South on us Democrats.

What did I keep telling you? Sheesh!

walto · April-6th-2003, 01:50 AM

Monte, FWIW, I have no real clue, now or ever, regarding whether there are WMDs in Iraq. I figured there probably were, since they're a hell of a lot easier/cheaper to make than cruise missiles, and since, generally, what the US considers OK weapon have been made unavailable to Iraq from outside since the last Persian Gulf war.

My point was, the main reason cited by the US for this invasion was Saddam's absolutely undoubted amassing of this stuff, making him a clear threat to both us and his neighbors. (Remember Powell's speech and the cool picture of the trucks and everything?) We were going in because the UN couldn't find this stuff, and we would, by gum. It's only now you and your heroes have settled on some new, and IMHO, even more arrogant and obviously illegal reason. That is to liberate some people across the world from a bad ruler and put in one we like better. For the time being this new, good ruler will be an American military official. Oh, those luckies!

"It is also the first step in reforming the whole of the Islamic world--that's the extraordinarily ambitious goal that was articulated by Wolfowitz et al., and its one that I think is totally boss cool and the reason I support this war."

And while I'm here, may I say that your desire to "reform the whole of the Islamic world" is pure, unadulterated megalomania, something that I sincerely hope is not shared by those same idols of yours. With supremicist expressions like being spewn out, it's no wonder so many people hate us and that terrorist attacks will likely increase. How else will the Islamic world you wish to conquer demur? Not having any of those weapons that it now seems we and not they were lying about at the UN about obviously won't stop the US now.

Ron Thorne · April-6th-2003, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monte Smith
Actually, Lynn, those are troops in the field. Kuwait, I believe.

Oh, how cool ... big screen televisions and Lazy Boy loungers from which to watch to watch the carnage from the desert! What a great use of taxpayer's dollars, while sending a vital message to allies and enemies alike.

Quote:

This is a war of liberation--you can scoff at that, but that's very cool too. It is also the first step in reforming the whole of the Islamic world--that's the extraordinarily ambitious goal that was articulated by Wolfowitz et al., and its one that I think is totally boss cool and the reason I support this war.

Oh, it's an ambitious goal alright. Yeah, that's America's role as a leader of the "free world" ... to decide who needs to be reformed, how, when and where. Pure genius.

Oh yeah, what Walter said in his last post, too.

April-6th-2003, 04:53 AM

>Saddam himself is an obstacle to the development of the Arabic world and a sponsor of terrorism,...<

Somehow the first is very doubtful compared to others, and as for the second, his terrorism seems to be mostly in his own country.
Since his party has always been secular (up until now that Iraq finds it convenient to be religious), they and Bin Laden's group together with the other Muslim extremists reportedly had no relationship. The primary exporters of terrorism have reportedly been Iran, Sudan, the Taliban, Yemen, and financed and covertly supported by the Saudis.

At least that is the view expressed by many outside the Bush inner circle.

BTW whoever thinks they can terrorize Southern California, Hey, our locals have them outnumbered and outgunned!

I myself wouldn't know, I haven't terrorized anyone since my kids reached adulthood.

Tom Storer · April-6th-2003, 01:09 PM

Monte,

"This is a war of liberation--you can scoff at that, but that's very cool too."

What kind of liberation is one you never asked for?

"It is also the first step in reforming the whole of the Islamic world--that's the extraordinarily ambitious goal that was articulated by Wolfowitz et al., and its one that I think is totally boss cool and the reason I support this war."

The United States, supposedly a bastion of freedom and democracy, deciding that it can unilaterally decide to impose reforms of its own choice and design on "the whole of the Islamic world" - by destroying their countries with bombs, murdering their armies (and oh by the way, maybe some civilians too, but what can you expect), removing by force what freedom they have to evolve or fail to evolve as they see fit - the dishonesty, the arrogance, the hubris, the unmitigated gall of this is staggering. Breathtaking. Unbelievable. And absolutely, totally, worthy of condemnation.

Ron Thorne · April-6th-2003, 03:50 PM

Well said, as usual, Tom!

Sometimes it's difficult to know when Monte is putting us on or testing our "liberal knee jerk" responsiveness, but I'm sad to say that doesn't appear to be the case in this instance.

What Tom, Walter and others have said is simply irrefutable, but Monte will doubtless rise to the occasion in spite of this fact.

HenryMc · April-6th-2003, 05:50 PM

I've been crystal ball gazing ...ok it was a decanter and it was filled with red wine and it was last night and now I have a headache but the statement holds ....anyway ..this is my prediction for 2008

America wins the war in Iraq and establishes a puppet government which kowtows to the west for the first two sets of free elections ...then a pro-islamic party rises and takes charge ....this quickly sends a new round of religious fundamentalism through the country which spreads through the region. These guys aren't dumb and decide ...sheeesh that oil price is pretty lame, and jack up the price. End result;: for each marine who sets foot in the middle east there'll be two or three standing outside some US factory gate.

Not a pretty scenerio ...but I think the US is creating some pretty big haters in the region.

April-6th-2003, 07:45 PM

Tom Storer: >What kind of liberation is one you never asked for?<

Tom, think a mo. What population inside a terror controlled govt. can ever "ask for liberation"? The non Nazi Germans? The anti Communist Soviets? The anti Junta Argentines?
Those who try, find themseves "liberated" rather quickly and permanently. The Iraqis who had escaped the country, did, if the press reports are to be believed "ask for liberation".

In case any of my posts, which try to clarify and explain,as best I can, the military realities as well as the technical realities, of conducting any war ordered by the government, lead you or others to believe I favored the invasion, or that I am a Bush admirer, your conclusion is in error.

In my opinion this will prove to be a sucessful war in the battle sense, but with a disastrous aftermath politically and economically. Not quite like Nam, where the military won all the battles, but the US lost the war, but maybe worse.

In particular, I have tried to point out that in no way can losses, including to civilians and to friendly fire be avoided in combat. Berate the Bush administration for giving the go-ahead, not the military who are sworn to follow orders.

A military which does *not* follow the orders of the civilian government leads to the instabilities of coups and "junta" governments common in South America.

willy · April-6th-2003, 08:33 PM

"What Tom, Walter and others have said is simply irrefutable, but Monte will doubtless rise to the occasion in spite of this fact."

Only irrefutable in the eyes of the condescending liberal. BTW-What's that line Albertson likes to use, the one about the egg on the face? There will be plenty of eggs on liberal faces when this is all done. The American public has pre-ordered them - by the truckload.